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Raven Morpheus

Iconic Planes of Vietnam War - need some ideas...

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Is no one going to put a word in for the OV-10 Bronco and A-37 Dragonfly?!- both pretty much designed with the requirements in the theater in mind. With the OV-10 you could avoid painting SEA camo too!

regards,

Will

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Hiya all! I think the use of the word "iconic" is key here. Certainly, as mentioned earlier, you would not include either the F-111 or the F-14 in this category. Likewise you would exclude many others such as the F-5. So, do you mean "iconic" or is it really a set of builds that interest you? I guess that's what it should be really. :) If iconic you should be considering the F-105, F-100, F-4, F-8, A-4, O-1, H-34, UH-1, H-37, H-21, B-52, B-57, A-1, B-66, C-119, C-130, C-123, C-47, and many more.

Martin

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I really do think we've gone from iconic to a simple list. The AH-1G and AH-1J? The Jolly Greens?  In all seriousness, I view the Skyhawk, the Intruder and the Phantom as the most iconic perhaps because they were not only famous but because they remained in use. I now know that the F-105 was important but since it was discontinued back then, I, as a 30 y/o, didn't know about it at first and the lack of plastic models of that jet only makes it worse.

 

Personally, I like the SEA camo very much and with the help of primer and liquid silicone, I want to paint only camo from now on (I used to avoid camo before).

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1 hour ago, Air Hockey Propellers said:

I really do think we've gone from iconic to a simple list. The AH-1G and AH-1J? The Jolly Greens?  In all seriousness, I view the Skyhawk, the Intruder and the Phantom as the most iconic perhaps because they were not only famous but because they remained in use. I now know that the F-105 was important but since it was discontinued back then, I, as a 30 y/o, didn't know about it at first and the lack of plastic models of that jet only makes it worse.

 

Personally, I like the SEA camo very much and with the help of primer and liquid silicone, I want to paint only camo from now on (I used to avoid camo before).

The F-105 wasn't just "important", it bore the brunt of all the air campaigns in North Vietnam. Important would be an understatement of the significance it played during that time.

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3 hours ago, whiskey said:

The F-105 wasn't just "important", it bore the brunt of all the air campaigns in North Vietnam. Important would be an understatement of the significance it played during that time.

 

Absolutely, and delivered the highest bombload of the campaign. It was in the thick of the action, the pilots flying very hazardous missions. Others, such as the F-4, simple pale when considering the load carried on the shoulders of the Thud. If its iconic you want it has to be the Thud, as well as the B-52, the A-4 and even the B-57, which was the most successful night intruder of the campaign. 

 

Martin

Edited by RidgeRunner

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14 hours ago, whiskey said:

The F-105 wasn't just "important", it bore the brunt of all the air campaigns in North Vietnam. Important would be an understatement of the significance it played during that time.

 

I'd say - it was so in the thick of it and flew so many hazardous missions that of a total of 833 built, a staggering 320 were lost during combat during the Vietnam conflict. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

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"Planes" are one thing, but the airframe that had the greatest effect upon the legions of ground troops and the one that will be forever associated with Viet Nam is the UH-1 Huey.

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The RF-101C went out before, with, and after most missions. A vital piece of kit until the RF-4 turned up.  HH-43 'Pedro', Huey, Spad, and just for giggles, Polikarpov Po-2

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1 hour ago, ejboyd5 said:

"Planes" are one thing, but the airframe that had the greatest effect upon the legions of ground troops and the one that will be forever associated with Viet Nam is the UH-1 Huey.

 

When people think of the Vietnam war, they picture a Huey.

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4 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

 

The RF-101C went out before, with, and after most missions.

 

Agreed, absolutely ;)

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15 hours ago, Hook said:

 

I'd say - it was so in the thick of it and flew so many hazardous missions that of a total of 833 built, a staggering 320 were lost during combat during the Vietnam conflict. 

  

Cheers,

 

Andre

Would you know how many Marine Choctaws were used in the Vietnam war? I am beginning to understand that that was a very popular helicopter before the Huey but I can't seem to find information on its use by the Marines. 

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10 minutes ago, Air Hockey Propellers said:

Would you know how many Marine Choctaws were used in the Vietnam war? I am beginning to understand that that was a very popular helicopter before the Huey but I can't seem to find information on its use by the Marines. 

 

I don't have the total number of the UH-34 used by the USMC but there are statistics that mention a total of 360 helicopters of the type by all users.

The USMC lost 75 of these helicopters in combat. I've seen numbers around 130 total losses, that would include combat and other losses, but I don't know if these are for the Vietnam theatre only or include losses in other areas in the same timeframe

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I have never been interested in the Vietnam war and when it is mentioned three flying things pops up in my mind. The UH-1, Skyraider and Phantom.  So I would say that they are "Iconic".  If I then start to think about it three more planes might surface like the Bronco, B-52 and A-4 but thats it.

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46 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

I don't have the total number of the UH-34 used by the USMC but there are statistics that mention a total of 360 helicopters of the type by all users.

The USMC lost 75 of these helicopters in combat. I've seen numbers around 130 total losses, that would include combat and other losses, but I don't know if these are for the Vietnam theatre only or include losses in other areas in the same timeframe

We're getting closer... I read a book a few months ago by an H-34 Marine pilot. He describes these helicopters as burning very very fast, in a matter of seconds, because of their (magnesium?) allow fuselage. At the end of the book, he includes his blogspot which he maintains online.

 

The Adventures of a Helicopter Pilot by Captain Bill Collier.

 

http://dawgdriverforever.blogspot.com/

 

This is perhaps an Iconic helicopter overshadowed by the Huey. 

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25 minutes ago, Air Hockey Propellers said:

We're getting closer... I read a book a few months ago by an H-34 Marine pilot. He describes these helicopters as burning very very fast, in a matter of seconds, because of their (magnesium?) allow fuselage. At the end of the book, he includes his blogspot which he maintains online.

 

The Adventures of a Helicopter Pilot by Captain Bill Collier.

 

http://dawgdriverforever.blogspot.com/

 

This is perhaps an Iconic helicopter overshadowed by the Huey. 

 

The importance of the H-34 in Vietnam can not be underestimated, as for the USMC this was the main transport type for several years, so I agree that this type should be remembered.

Iconic however is a different story... I personally tend to be very conservative when it comes to the use of the word iconic as I feel that this is sometimes abused and misused by us enthusiasts. In this same forum I've seen this word applied to a lot of types, including some that even among enthusiasts are little known (IIRC I've seen the Scimitar described as iconic...)

From the definition of the word itself, Iconic in my view is something that can be taken as a symbol of whatever is discussed and really I can't see the H-34 as something that can immediately remind of Vietnam. The Huey on the other hand is THE helicopter that immediately springs to mind when we talk of Vietnam. Even without knowing anything about helicopters, for most people one of the first images that come to mind when thinking of the Vietnam War is that of M16 toting GIs exiting their Hueys. Actually this is maybe the first image coming to the mind of many when thinking of Vietnam. It doesn't matter what relative importance other equipment or soldiers may have played, this is the image that TV and newspapers have brought into everybody's home and the one that countless movies have recreated.

As enthusiasts we may debate at length the relative importance of the various types within this war and in the evolution of air warfare, but I believe that if we want to find what type was really iconic we must look at the impact outside the enthusiasts community and into the popular perception. The Huey had this impact.

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3 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

 

The importance of the H-34 in Vietnam can not be underestimated, as for the USMC this was the main transport type for several years, so I agree that this type should be remembered.

Iconic however is a different story... I personally tend to be very conservative when it comes to the use of the word iconic as I feel that this is sometimes abused and misused by us enthusiasts. In this same forum I've seen this word applied to a lot of types, including some that even among enthusiasts are little known (IIRC I've seen the Scimitar described as iconic...)

From the definition of the word itself, Iconic in my view is something that can be taken as a symbol of whatever is discussed and really I can't see the H-34 as something that can immediately remind of Vietnam. The Huey on the other hand is THE helicopter that immediately springs to mind when we talk of Vietnam. Even without knowing anything about helicopters, for most people one of the first images that come to mind when thinking of the Vietnam War is that of M16 toting GIs exiting their Hueys. Actually this is maybe the first image coming to the mind of many when thinking of Vietnam. It doesn't matter what relative importance other equipment or soldiers may have played, this is the image that TV and newspapers have brought into everybody's home and the one that countless movies have recreated.

As enthusiasts we may debate at length the relative importance of the various types within this war and in the evolution of air warfare, but I believe that if we want to find what type was really iconic we must look at the impact outside the enthusiasts community and into the popular perception. The Huey had this impact.

I totally agree with you. I will use the word more carefully. There can't be too many "iconics" at the same time!

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Out of all the Hollywood depictions of Vietnam, Ive only seen one with an H-34 in it, and that was Full Metal Jacket. 

 

One must remember that being iconic and used as a symbol is not so much for the civilian populace, but for those that served in Vietnam as well. The Huey defines that symbol for the vast majority. And if you ask one, I'd be willing to bet that it's more the tell-tale sounds of an approaching Huey than the 'copter itself for them.

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16 minutes ago, whiskey said:

Out of all the Hollywood depictions of Vietnam, Ive only seen one with an H-34 in it, and that was Full Metal Jacket. 

 

Oo... that hardly represents reality ;). Huey? Thud? Phantom?.... etc.... Surely it depends where you were when the war was on? In the mid-Sixties, if I were a grunt stuck in the jungle, I'd be looking for a Choctaw to pluck me out. If I were an earth mover I'd think myself pretty good to be barrelling along in an F-105 - alone and working like hell to keep everything as intended - or an RF-101C - unarmed but went everywhere fast and at low level. From a Vietnamese perspective the shapes thatpersist in posers etc from the time are of F-105s and B-52s. I have one on my study wall :). Sadly it shows a Thud going down in flames with MIGs flying supremely over them! 

 

But, of course, none of this makes them iconic. Iconic often is what catches the imagination, clouded with a little creative licence.  The reality is often different.

 

Martin

 

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1 hour ago, whiskey said:

Out of all the Hollywood depictions of Vietnam, Ive only seen one with an H-34 in it, and that was Full Metal Jacket. 

 

One must remember that being iconic and used as a symbol is not so much for the civilian populace, but for those that served in Vietnam as well. The Huey defines that symbol for the vast majority. And if you ask one, I'd be willing to bet that it's more the tell-tale sounds of an approaching Huey than the 'copter itself for them.

"The Green Berets" movie with John Wayne has nothing but loads of UH-1 Hueys in it.  

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5 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

 

Oo... that hardly represents reality ;). Huey? Thud? Phantom?.... etc.... Surely it depends where you were when the war was on? In the mid-Sixties, if I were a grunt stuck in the jungle, I'd be looking for a Choctaw to pluck me out. If I were an earth mover I'd think myself pretty good to be barrelling along in an F-105 - alone and working like hell to keep everything as intended - or an RF-101C - unarmed but went everywhere fast and at low level. From a Vietnamese perspective the shapes thatpersist in posers etc from the time are of F-105s and B-52s. I have one on my study wall :). Sadly it shows a Thud going down in flames with MIGs flying supremely over them! 

 

But, of course, none of this makes them iconic. Iconic often is what catches the imagination, clouded with a little creative licence.  The reality is often different.

 

Martin

 

 

Absolutely right about the misrepresentation of reality, I was just kindly pointing it out.

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Anyones list is subjective, mine would include;

 

F-105

F-4

F-8

A-6

A-4

Skyraider

Bird Dog

MiG-17,19 & 21

B-52D

Huey

 

Julien

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Tsk, tsk! 39 posts and no-one's mentioned the DHC-4 Caribou! Did a lot of work in Funnyland, did the 'Bou ...

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Added trivia. The old TV series The Lieutenant was about a Camp Pendleton Marine training instructor. One episode had the lieutenant, played by Gary Lockwood,  going TDY to Viet Nam. His helicopter, that was shot down, was the CH-34. This was the final  episode. James Shigeta and Greg Morris also appeared in it. It was created by Gene Roddenberry. Some names might be familiar. 

CH-34 being iconic may depend on who you were looking at. 

 

Grant

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