MiG-17F and PF Fresco - June 1967 and "war of attrition" 1967-1973 double build + SA-2 guildeline SAM1/48

[exdraken]

so...

learning reading arabic numbers now it seems!

decided to compose 2983 for the F from Lindenhill Iraqi fighters decals sheet, that seem to be more or less the right size.

for the PF things were a bit more complicated as the arabic numbers used on 1967 PF were quite small.

maybe 1/72 would be ok? but I don't have these..

finally found the right style and size in Albatros decals Dark Mirages with a full number set and some bold extras :)

numbers are clsoe to those with photographic evidence, decided on 2805

pictures hopefully tomorrow!

Edited May 2, 2015 by exdraken

[Col.]

Both are looking great in their respective colours and markings

[Tom Cooper]

Sorry Werner, was away and busy most of the last few days.

Serials for PFs were usually in 28xx range.

2983 is a good idea for the F, and LH's decals are providing a good service here.

And generally, the markings you have applied, and everything else: simply perfect. Right on the spot, everything. Stunning work.

[exdraken]

cool, fine that the numbers seem to be workable

2805 :

2983:

time for finishing them slowly!

[exdraken]

decal paper arrived...should be enough for some trial an error

thanks Tom for the batcrow checking for size

[Tom Cooper]

My pleasure. After getting this far, you simply can't do anything wrong any more, mate.

[exdraken]

My pleasure. After getting this far, you simply can't do anything wrong any more, mate.

thanks a lot, but.....

that might only be true for the historical part of the build!

from modeeing point of view, there is still enough possibiliy fo a hard day

will try to do my best...

weapons still to be done (rockets for the F, bomb pylons, ... )

gun barrels for the PF still missing, etc...aerials, whells varsnish, some weatering, .....

stencils anyone? any prominent ones that would be hard not so see in 1/48?

are there any decals available, and.... I suppose the would be in English on Egyptian MiGs? no?

Edited May 11, 2015 by exdraken

[Tom Cooper]

I've got no idea about any decent maintenance stencils for Egyptian aircraft in that scale (nor any other, for that matter).

That said:

- Non-camouflaged aircraft had these applied in red (warnings and c/n) and email blue (maintenance stencils), and in quite a lots of places around the airframe. C/ns (like '8044' and '8047' for a pair of MiG-17Fs delivered immediately after the Suez War of 1956) were nearly always applied on all moving and removable surfaces, including rudders, various access covers, and on hardpoints for drop tanks etc.

- Camouflaged aircraft had next to no stencils; if at all, the serial was repeated on the drop tank, often on the hardpoint for drop tank too.

All text was in English.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Tom Cooper

[exdraken]

thanks Tom for the info on the stencils.... lets wait and see if I put some on on the PF!

updates:

wing pitots not painted yet from Master are an absolute must nowadays! really nice! a different one for left and right even! : )

canon muzzles form Master model

and fuselage pylons for the bomb load:

and PF:

only 3 23 mm cannons here! not that spectacular as the 37 gem on the F!

as a intake radom color I chose some mix of grey....

some aerials still missing,...

Edited May 15, 2015 by exdraken

[Antoine]

When I see what I've done with my -17F, who finished in the bin, compared with what you've done...

Makes me want to have another try with a -17PF, this time.

Very good work so far!

[Tom Cooper]

...still between the 5 best MiG-17-builds I've ever seen (and certainly the best in 1:48). ;-)

Just one note: don't forget the IFF antenna for the back of the PF.

[exdraken]

Hi,

I think there are many, many, many fantastic MiG-17 builds out there! and the more you get into the subject, the more you find....

It is just that the necessary information is not out there that easily! that has to be researched quite the hard way! thanks again for the invaluable help of yours and your books!

there is so much left unclear, concerning weapons load out of MiG-17, as there are hardly any contemporarian photos with live weapons form the 50ies to the 70ies available . might have something to do with the countries were they operated in... !

Just one note: don't forget the IFF antenna for the back of the PF.

thanks !

nearly forgot this one!

on he F as well?

Smer instructions tell me not to put one on the Egyptian one, but on the other Fs in the kit to do so...

[exdraken]

evolution of the Sakr rockets:

Smer mold to live rocket model

if the stabilizing rear fins should be just grey or if my natural metal would be possible I have no idea... but I think at least it could be possible on some batch

As far as i know, Egypt was the only country to use this kind of unguided rockets (indigenous Sakr rocket based on some Western model)

they are only included (together with the necessary launchers!) in the Smer (and Airfix and Heller re-boxes of course) MiG-17F kit.

Hobbyboss does not provide them (or any accurate ordnance) so many of the newer Egyptian MiG-17 builds out there show S5 rocket launchers on inboard wing pylonsonly which were never? operated by Egypt or no weapons at all...

Edited May 15, 2015 by exdraken

[Tom Cooper]

Hi,

I think there are many, many, many fantastic MiG-17 builds out there! and the more you get into the subject, the more you find....

It is just that the necessary information is not out there that easily! that has to be researched quite the hard way! thanks again for the invaluable help of yours and your books!

My pleasure.

There is actually enough info and photos, meanwhile. Even in regards of weapons. It rather takes time (and publishers) to get all of that published. ;-)

(That said, Egypt saw a period of quite vivid military-related publishing in the 1950s and 1960. They've had an excellent photographer who was granted permission to go anywhere he wanted, take photos, make interviews etc. Sadly, very little of that survived until today, and then the June 1967 War changed everything - and forever.)

Re. IFF-antenna: just reviewed all the available photos and it's definitely a 'must' for that PF.

But, no trace of them on any of camouflaged examples.

Re. Sakr rockets (originally designed by Hispano-Suisa, if my memory serves me well): they're fine as you did them. I usually draw them in 'grey overall', but there were certainly batches with fins in 'bare metall', so nothing wrong here.

And nope: Egyptians never operated any of Soviet-made rockets on thier MiG-17s (even less so from usual UB-16-57 pods installed on main underwing harpoints, like this was done regularly in Syria, Somalia and few other places). On the contrary, dual launchers for Sakr rockets were introduced already on Egyptian Vampires, sometimes in the mid-1950s, then on MiG-15bis (already before the Suez War of 1956), and then on MiG-17Fs too.

[exdraken]

thanks , lets look for the bright future of superb pictures of old, historic Airforces! :)

did anybody else apart from Egypt use this fuselage mounted bomb pylons? would have been also handy on Polish LIM-6s e.g.!!

another bomb question can't stop trying out things.. sorry!

left in olive: Advanced Modelling FAB-250 230, in grey Trumpeter FAB-250 46?

personally I like the green color better...but hardly any Soviet bombs are green, no?

so no IFF antenna for the F but

PF:

IFF and other aerials mounted:

nice nad stylish shot on its own wheels:

,

printed decals today!!! :)

her is my assortment, on transparent and white decal paper.... lets see which one looks better!

I also added a light blue background on some samples...

some photos of the 31st squadron markings look definitely like having a white or blue disk in the background (black and white photos...)

detail... a bit too much blow up for the photos here.... in reality the blue ones look a lot nicer!

Edited May 16, 2015 by exdraken

[Tom Cooper]

OK: FAB-250M54 (your green one) is a no-go. They were not green but blue-grey, and never used on EAF's MiG-17s.

Please, re-paint the FAB-250M46 in green, then you've got your 'bomb' (actually two of them ;-)).

And the IFF-antenna on the PF should get its upper two thirds painted in email blue (with irregular bottom 'border', seems email colour tended to peel off there).

Re. unit insignia: I would go for the one with white background.

[Tom Cooper]

The nicest about projects like these is: the more authentic, the better the result... They're both really 'flashy'.

[exdraken]

thanks Tom!

lets try to get as correct as possible! that is the interesting stuff after all the research after all!

email blue turns out more e-mail related stuff then what I am searching!

I guess enamel blue would be something like slightly turquoise white?

so on the other points, the more complicated way it is:)

repainting the Trumpeter bombs to olive green (feared that already, when I put them on for trial...) the others will be used on other planes later... (Su-7? Su-17? Su-20?.....) maybe Trumpeter follows up their Su-9 with more!

white back-grounded unit insignia - the most complicated of all options

• just black - transparent decals only
• blue (or any color that white) background - transparent decals only
• white background: transparent decals and exactly cut-out white background disk i.e. double layer or more likely exact cut-out of the unit insignia from the white decal sheet... lets see how it works!

thanks again for all your answers!

[Tom Cooper]

Ah, another one amazed at my practice of mixing English and German languages...?

Anyway, yes, enamel blue: that's actually quite a deep blue colour, like this:

Sorry that white is the most complicated for the background of unit insignia. But, IMHO, if the background was in any other colour, it would not be as flashy on the few available photos (pay attention at the one showing a PF taking off in darkness: the background is really... well... white).

Edited May 18, 2015 by Tom Cooper

[exdraken]

Hi Tom and everybody!

thanks for the color update!

browsing the net I just found those.... of course after I have finished my Sakr rockets

they are supposed to be for the Fouga Magister, but look exactly? like the ones on Egyptian MiG-17, 15 and I suppose Vampires as well

only 2 pairs of suitable launchers though (right side, in front of the tanks...)

http://www.shopofphantoms.com/rhino/Pulsar/de_DE.Shop.displayShop.8176./wmf48026-israeli-cm-170-magister-Bewaffnung

maybe for a future build

what do you think?

[Tom Cooper]

Launch rails are different (from Egyptian), but rockets are OK.

That said: rumour has it that the Israelis have captured so many Sakrs during the June 1967 War, they actually rushed these to service with their fighter-bombers, in the last few days of that conflict. I never got specific details about how did they do that, but guess Sakrs can't have been that much different to whatever the IDF/AF was usually fitting on its Fougas.

[exdraken]

hi Tom,

yes you are tight the launcher looks slightly different...

did not see that at first!

here a comparison (sorry, borrowed the Wingman Models pictures for that purpose...)

[Tom Cooper]

*following another review of available photos*...

I see now. K, please keep those from Wingman Models for latter: you might need them if you want to make one of correspondingly equipped Vampires (1522, for example).

Smer/Heller/Airfix is correct for -17s, 15bis and even Yak-11s.

[exdraken]

sorry for the unit insignia delay, simply found no time to post these 2 day old pictures

,

did the "cut-out of the unit insignia from the white decal sheet" version in the end the white is very dense and is not transparent, quite satisfied actually !! hope you are as well everybody!!

did they turn out a bit big?

Edited May 20, 2015 by exdraken

[Tom Cooper]

A tad too large (2-3mm), but nevermind.

Now, get the masks down, so everybody can enjoy the final effect.