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25 Years of "Peace": Aden Crisis to Zimbabwe War GB?


Procopius

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Would there be interest in a Minor Conflicts of the Cold War GB? I ask this because interest in the proposed Suez Crisis GB seems sadly limited. However, it occurs to me that there were a number of "little wars" (though traumatic enough for those unlucky enough to experience them) during the Cold War between 1954-1979. (25 years is a nice span of time, and excludes some of the bigger or harder to classify conflicts like the Korean War or the Falklands.) It would include things like the Portuguese in Angola and Mozambique, the British in the Aden and Malayan Emergencies, French "Jaguar Diplomacy", the Rhodesian Bush War, etc. etc.

Does that sound interesting?

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It would sure make for an interesting GB, although there would probably be a problem of defining the term "minor conflict". Suez for example was a relatively minor conflict when seen from the anglo/french perspective, but the forces employed on the israeli-egyptian front make it quite a large one. Of an even larger scale would be the Kippur war, where hundreds thousands soldiers were in action. Maybe the problem could be sorted by establishing a list of "lesser built conflicts"?

I can also see some problem in acquiring references on the aircrafts or tanks used, as some of the smaller conflicts have not been covered that much.

In any case I would be interested in something along these lines, it would also be something from where we could all learn a few bits of History that we're not aware of

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There was also the Borneo confrontation, my first active service posting, which covered quite a few British, Australian, New Zealand and Gurkha units. Plenty of choice on vehicles, aircraft and even ships for that one. Might have to dig out the Javelin or Belvedere for that.

Mike

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I like the sound of this one, Procopius. Indo-China and Vietnam and the Arab-Israeli conflicts would, I imagine, be excluded?

Yes, though Giorgio raises a good point about Suez, since I was thinking that GB could be subsumed into this one. But then on what criteria can I legitimately exclude the other Arab-Israeli wars? Beyond my own arbitrary ones.

There was also the Borneo confrontation, my first active service posting, which covered quite a few British, Australian, New Zealand and Gurkha units. Plenty of choice on vehicles, aircraft and even ships for that one. Might have to dig out the Javelin or Belvedere for that.

Mike

I would probably build a Confrontation aircraft for the GB as well, I've long been fascinated by it. Wish there were more books on it.

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That does sounds interesting. I am thinking of some israeli airplanes flown during some of the conflicts there.

Well, there's my concern to some extent -- Mish, are you okay with including the Arab-Israeli Wars, or would you prefer limiting it to Suez, or a third thing?

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While excluding the Vietnam War is, to my mind, a sensible thing are we making the cut-off point when the U.S. openly joined hostilities? Plenty other options to cover but I ask because of the various conflicts raging with the region until that point.

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Hm. Perhaps "superpowerless wars"? So that would eliminate the USA and Vietnam, Laos, etc, from 1963 on, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968, and the Hungarian Uprising of 1956, but leave in things like the 1979 Sino-Vietnamese War, Dhofar, etc.

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Vietnam could be included given that any object chosen would be a local unit and rule out anything USA. After all Vietnam was the main conflict but spread to neighboring countries. Could be quite interesting. Southeast Asia was a hotspot. Don't forget the Dutch fighting over east Timor vs Indonesia

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Well, there's my concern to some extent -- Mish, are you okay with including the Arab-Israeli Wars, or would you prefer limiting it to Suez, or a third thing?

There is already a proposal for a Suez GB so that would be out.

I believe the Vietnam GB is covering the French Indo China war so I feel that any involvement with Vietnam is out for this GB

I'm okay with the Arab - Israeli wars but I am getting a bit concerned that if we include too many areas of conflict we might be limiting subjects from future GBs over the next couple of years.

I think the catch all is going to be the smaller conflicts. I'm also thinking that the Falklands conflict should not be included as this could make a very good stand alone subject for a GB 2017 being the 35th anniversary.

My thoughts and :2c:

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There is already a proposal for a Suez GB so that would be out.

I was hoping the Suez one could be rolled into this, actually -- I was the person who proposed it -- as sadly it otherwise looks unlikely to elicit enough interest. Would that be okay?

I'm with you on the Falklands, and excluding Indochina is fine by me.

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I would just like to express my interest in both a Suez GB (assuming my LBAF build goes well, I would be excited to build an Egyptian Il-28 as well) and the "lesser known conflicts" GB. The big stuff gets ... overwhelming. For me, anyway. So many books, so many authorities, so much material ... I feel like I can get at least a working knowledge of a smaller conflict in a few afternoons and evenings. And there were so many interesting African conflicts during this time period, too!

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I have been thinking about this... and one of the only ways to make this coherent would be to establish a criteria where builds would be small wars that Britain was the only major western power participating. Otherwise you could argue Korea and Vietnam would be there, Suez ect. So a provisional list would be...

Palestine (1945~1949), Indonesian War of Independence (1945~1949), Indian withdrawal (1945~1947), Malaya (1949~1962), Greek Civil War (1946~1949), Mau Mau Insurgency (1952~1960), Sarawak emergency, Dhorfar Rebellion (1962~1976), Indonesian-Malaysian confrontation (1963~1966), Aden Crisis (1963~1967), Northern Ireland (1968~1998), Sierra Leone (1992~1998).

You still have a problem with the Falklands, but its still a pretty good list imo. If you added anything post 1918, you get quite a few more options, including police actions in North West Frontier Province, Iraq and several other conflicts in the Arabian Peninsula. I'd probably go with the latter, as it would open up a few more options which people may build.

If you rolled Suez into this, then I would suggest that it would be Anglo-French Small wars. you get so many different options, including Indochina, Algeria, Various african conflicts (like the war in the Congo, and Rwanda, among many many others). I personally think this would be the best idea.

Edited by -Neu-
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I'm itching to do a Rhodesian something so I'm hoping that war will be included. I also have plans to do a Portuguese Alouette III circa Angola, so if I can do that for this GB, all the better. I like the idea of a separate Suez GB.

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I have been thinking about this... and one of the only ways to make this coherent would be to establish a criteria where builds would be small wars that Britain was the only major western power participating. Otherwise you could argue Korea and Vietnam would be there, Suez ect. So a provisional list would be...

Palestine (1945~1949), Indonesian War of Independence (1945~1949), Indian withdrawal (1945~1947), Malaya (1949~1962), Greek Civil War (1946~1949), Mau Mau Insurgency (1952~1960), Sarawak emergency, Dhorfar Rebellion (1962~1976), Indonesian-Malaysian confrontation (1963~1966), Aden Crisis (1963~1967), Northern Ireland (1968~1998), Sierra Leone (1992~1998).

You still have a problem with the Falklands, but its still a pretty good list imo. If you added anything post 1918, you get quite a few more options, including police actions in North West Frontier Province, Iraq and several other conflicts in the Arabian Peninsula. I'd probably go with the latter, as it would open up a few more options which people may build.

If you rolled Suez into this, then I would suggest that it would be Anglo-French Small wars. you get so many different options, including Indochina, Algeria, Various african conflicts (like the war in the Congo, and Rwanda, among many many others). I personally think this would be the best idea.

See where you're coming from Neu. However if we went with your idea I couldn't allow Northern Ireland as it would be likely to get too political and technically was a war per se

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See where you're coming from Neu. However if we went with your idea I couldn't allow Northern Ireland as it would be likely to get too political and technically was a war per se

It also does not have much in the way of modelling opportunities, comparatively speaking (unless you like Range Rovers.)

Edited by -Neu-
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Is this answer to the scope question just to prepare a list of the excluded conflicts - anything else is OK (within the timeframe)?

So far the concensus on exclusions seems to be:

1) Vietnam

2) Korea

3) Falklands

4) Northern Ireland

Plus any other suggestions......

Cheers

Cliff

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