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1/48 - Hawker Hurricane family by Eduard - in project


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On 11/14/2021 at 3:50 PM, StevSmar said:

WOW, finally we’re going to have a scanned Hurricane!!!! Hopefully they don’t scan one of the new Hawker Restoration Hurricanes, their top cowling profile is a bit off.

Now if they scanned, and include markings for, P3351 when I will be a very happy boy!

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Ale bude to trvat ještě nejméně dva roky, než ho dokončíme. Toho Hurricana 1/48

Source: https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?p=2460107#p2460107

 

It will take at least two more years to complete that Hurricane 1/48.

 

This could mean a release no earlier than Eday 2023 - the last weekend of September 2023.

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23 hours ago, Piotr Mikolajski said:

Source: https://www.modelforum.cz/viewtopic.php?p=2460107#p2460107

 

It will take at least two more years to complete that Hurricane 1/48.

 

This could mean a release no earlier than Eday 2023 - the last weekend of September 2023.

I wonder if Arma Hobby will also release mk I after the 1/48 mk IIC.

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1 hour ago, TheKinksFan said:

I wonder if Arma Hobby will also release mk I after the 1/48 mk IIC.

If they go down the Eduard route, which is a common parts tree, (tailplanes, rudder, cockpit, wheel wells, UC parts, ailerons, )  plus specific new parts trees,  which would be 1, a Mk.II fuselage, radiators, props, exhausts,  tailwheels,  2 , a IIC wing,  the obvious thing is to a B wing,  as you just need a new wing tree.

That covers an awful lot of Hurricanes, and a IIC is close enough to be a fairly easy conversion to a IID/IV,   they could do that with a new wing tree and associated parts, 

careful planning of the Mk.II fuselage (as per the Hase kit with open nose ring)  allows alternate parts to do Canadian specific and Sea Hurricanes,  if they go for a separate belly panel.

 

That is maximum use of common parts tree and Mk.II fuselage tree, with 2 or 3 wing trees,  it's pretty easy to backdate a B wing to an A wing,   

 

But to do a  Mk.I,  it also depends on what Mk.I,  as the Mk.I is complex, far more complex than is usually appreciated,   as there are a mass of changes,  3 windscreens,  two fuselages,  early/mid-late)  , two wings, fabric/metal,  6 types of propeller/spinner,  4 and 5 spoke wheels,  as well as very early with no strake, different rudder..... 

 

Even just taking the easy route, and doing what Airfix did, a mid to late Mk.I,  which is the one flown by 303 Sq,  that's a new fuselage tree with various props, and new wings.

 

And there is the Airfix Mk.I kit already, which is likely 'good enough' for most modellers.....   

 

Though it does have a few faults that are a right pain to correct, and are noticeable, so there is room for the definitive Mk.I kit,  

 

 Given Arma have already done a very good job in their 72nd Hurricanes,  I'm not really sure what Eduard are up to?   The Arma kit will be available before theirs, and what will an Eduard kit offer over the Arma?     Unless Arma just won't bother with the Mk.I and leave that to Eduard,  which is the sort of thing they do well, looking at their early Spitfire kits.....

 

 

 

 

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It appears to me that there are numerous models with flaws that could have been corrected by a study of what was done badly before, and at discussion groups such as this one are one of the best means for discussing such matters, and of finding out who can advise.   Not always those present on the forums but certainly those others credited on the forums, and as significantly which sources cannot be trusted.  Avoiding such a source of information seems foolish.

 

I can think of numerous Hurricane models with rivets.  None of them benefitted from them.  This appears to be a good working principle in small scales.

 

 

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People choose different approaches to modelling and any one of them is as good as any other. Someone doesn't want interior details and exterior details? Great. Someone else wants a detailed cockpit interior and full riveting? Also great. Someone wants to build a kit straight out of the box in a weekend? Great. Someone wants to build one model for a year, recreating every possible detail? Also great.

 

Companies, on the other hand, are guided by what the majority of customers want, because they are not charities.

 

Most customers want an accurate cockpit interior, fine panel lines and full riveting, but they don't want folding wings, open engine compartments or gun bays in the wings. And companies will make exactly this kind of kits, because this option guarantees the best sales.

 

If someone does not want cockpit details, he does not have to glue them. If someone does not want details on the outside, he can fill them in. If someone wants engine compartments or gun bays, he can buy aftermarket kits, resin or 3D printed. As simply as that.

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My phrase was "over-rivetting".  Some representations of rivets in this scale are much coarser than others: I would agree that fine rivetting is a matter of taste: it fits into the argument that a model should appear to look like the original even if it means departing from scale in some details.  Bot coarse rivelling belongs nowhere - OK, maybe steam punk or 18th century subject.

 

 I would point out that rivets are not holes but bumps.  The habit of using holes to represent rivets is an elderly technique in plastic model terms, going back to the early 70s and the LS Nells.  It is not exactly cutting edge, and is perhaps more "stuck in the past" than the modern capability to reproduce fine rivet detail. even when raised.

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53 minutes ago, Bozothenutter said:

Agree with the 'fine ring' bit....

Even tried once.

0.3mm injection needle, carefully reamed the tip with a conical reamer....

Worked, made a nice ring, but only useful for the bigger rivets.

0.3mm is 14.4mm in 1/48


Hasegawa Tri-Tools has a very nice donut ring tool. I used it on a Hasegawa Corsair on the plug seam on the front of the fuselage. I lost those details when I filled and sanded the step on the kit. 

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Some aircraft has no visible flush rivets. Spitfire, Bf. 109, Fw-190 (on wings) for example.

It is modern fashion to do rivets on these subjects and very bad in case of representation of real aircraft. Many modellers likes rivets because it boosts artistic expression, but it has no connection to reality.

 

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Just as Hasegawa re-invented or better said hugely expanded 48th.scale from late 80's due to ( at the time and today) very fine engraved detail, since 2013 and their Spitfire Mk.IX kit Eduard set another kit revolution with surface detail in 48th scale and and its here to stay.

Edited by Thomas V.
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1 minute ago, Thomas V. said:

Just as Hasegawa re-invented or better said hugely expanded 48th.scale from late 80's due to ( at the time and today) very fine ingraved detail, since 2013 and their Spitfire Mk.IX kit Eduard set another kit revolution in 48th and and its here to stay.

 

That's why I've got about 10 in the stash 👍

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What you overlook is that such conventions change with the years, and what you do mention makes quite clear that there has been considerable progress towards greater accuracy in models as the hobby has aged.  A significant number of modellers may not care about this, but a significant number of modellers do.  The very success of Eduard's 1/72 Spitfire, to name but one example, is a sign of this, as can be shown if needed) when comparing it with the original Airfix Spitfire of 1956, and its progressive replacements (from all companies) down the decades.  Not that this has always been a straight line or without temporary regression, at least in the case of specific companies.  Thus increasing accuracy is not only possible but even shown to prove a success, where fads such as moving parts (which always leave unrealistic joins) had faded.  But they come and go, and no doubt will continue to do so.

 

It seems logical that accurate models will outsell inaccurate ones, because those who don't care will buy both, but those who do will only buy the latter.  Thus accurate kits will be more successful in the long term, and this is exactly what we have seen.  There are of course competing matters such as ease of build vs complexity of detail and the fine-ness limitations of progressive technological change.  I think we have reached a point where the hobby is capable of producing multiple tiny parts that are approaching the limits that the wider market can cope with, but simplicity and accuracy are not diametrically opposed.

 

By the way, there was some time spent in the recent Hornby TV programme showing the designer of the 1/48 Vampire adding rivets.  Thankfully not to the exterior.  So not just to the 1/24th range.

 

 

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On 12/4/2021 at 11:24 AM, Tbolt said:

 

Flush rivets should obviously be a very fine ring which is just not practical to mould on a small model and can be almost and sometimes are invisible on a painted aircraft. Of course you can add them yourself with a beading tool but that's a huge amount of work. My concern with this kit is with the mush head rivets, which if not fine enough would make the wing look wrong

 

This Eduard Spit Mk.I shows that the raised rivets need to be finer. It's an aircraft not a battleship.

 

https://preview.redd.it/d51fkm2ws2j61.jpg?width=2397&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a23590819da22340a7aa9ddf7a720cd24b6c38d2

Those rivets look childish if you ask me, like modellers are asking for fantasy products ...
And a whole gang out to push the new standard down our throats as if it was the only valid opinion to have these unrealistic bolts on every new model, aaaarrggghh ...............................................................................

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37 minutes ago, occa said:

Those rivets look childish if you ask me, like modellers are asking for fantasy products ...
And a whole gang out to push the new standard down our throats as if it was the only valid opinion to have these unrealistic bolts on every new model, aaaarrggghh ...............................................................................

 

To be honest the weathering on that model has highlighted the raised rivets a bit much, this image on Eduard's website is probably more representative but they still are very big for the scale. Compare them with the real thing. Okay you could never get them scale size but a bit smaller would be nice.

 

I can live with the other rivets but not the raised ones. It will be interesting to see what they come up with on their Hurricane.

 

KAMO_F_01.jpg

 

DSC_0839EW

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, tank152 said:

Talk about Pot calling Kettle Black!  

If you feel that strongly against rivets and the like then why not join Modelforum and post your feelings in the Eduard thread on there to Vladimir Sulc himself? He's very active on there and answers peoples questions. 

I've put directly question to Wojtek in the Arma Hurricane thread so hopefully he'll come back with a reply.

Like I said my main problem is with the raised ones. The holes look okay if you are carefully, this is my 1/72nd Spitfire. I'm sure if they can make them smaller for the Hurricane they will.

 

When Eduard do the 1/72nd early Spits I'm guessIng they will use holes instead of raised rivets all over, otherwise it will look quite silly in the smaller scale unless they can mould them a lot smaller, which I don't think would be practical.

 

DSC_3759EW

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In another attempt to get this thread back to the idea of an Eduard 1/48 Hurricane family, here are some photos my father took of Mk.IIa P3351/ZK-TPK at Warbirds Over Wanaka 2004. I would love to be able to build this example.

Warbirds Over Wanaka 2004 pt2_0035 Warbirds Over Wanaka 2004 pt3_0063 Warbirds Over Wanaka 2004 pt2_0037 Warbirds Over Wanaka 2004 pt2_0071

 

Oops, how'd this slip in? 😇 Vanity shot of yours truly, aged 16, enjoying his first close encounter with P3351.

Warbirds Over Wanaka 2004 pt1_0021

 

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9 hours ago, Julien said:

Yes let please get this thread back on topic.

 

Looking at the details of the recent announcements of the two families - Zero and F4F - one can more or less judge what Eduard might do with the Hurricane.

 

Variants

I expect fabric and metal wings on the Mark I, all variants of the Mark II version and the Mark IV. Perhaps also licensed production variants, although I don't know if they won't end up in some resin / 3D printed conversion sets. Alternatively released as limited editions as part of the BFC line.

Sea Hurricanes? Perhaps. But here I would rather suggest keeping your hopes low. Better to have a pleasant surprise than to be disappointed.

 

Markings / Boxes

As we all know there are countless options. Apart from the separate boxes for each version I expect a series of limited editions:

  • RAF with pre-war options,
  • Battle of France, or rather Phoney War, Battle of France and Operation Dynamo combined,
  • Battle of Britain - maybe even two separate boxes, one for RAF, another for Commonwealth and all of foreign pilots,
  • Czech squadrons,
  • Defence of Malta,
  • North Africa,
  • Soviet Union,
  • Far East.

IIRC Mr Sulc from Eduard doesn't like captured aircraft so this kind of schemes are released at all, they are likely to be part of the BFC line.

 

Additional sets

Complete engine with bed, complete resin cockpit, 3D dashboard, machine gun and gun bays in wings, additional wheel variants, bombs and fuel tanks plus resin / 3D printed rockets for Mark IV.

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2 hours ago, Thomas V. said:

Lets not jump to conclusions or mix our expectations with reality, no one knows nothing yet, except that in 2023/4 will get Hurricane family.

..and, if we don't like the way Eduard represent the subject, we don't have to buy the kit. It seems we sometimes get a little too emotionaly invested in the potential of a forthcoming subject and its rivet representation in particular.

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