KLP Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Hi, I'm planning to build the P-47D Razorback coded UN-L of 63rd FS / 56th FG ("Belle of Belmont"). All the profiles I have seen suggests that the D-day stripes were painted over with a darker olive drab than the rest of the aircraft, but I have not been able to find any real pictures supporting this. Can anyone direct me to a photo showing the side and/or topside of the wings of this aircraft? Kenneth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Look up 'Lampie' on BM. The font of all things P-47 and 56thFG!! Or here: http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/ And here: http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=56&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=432&Temp=2429&searchString= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbolt Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) This is the only photo I have of this aircraft and unfortunately the rear fuselage is blocked and you can only see a little on the top of the wing. When the ID stripes were painted over it probably would have been darker due to the faded paint on the aircraft already, (see the second picture, which maybe have even more faded OD though) that's if it was OD, or a maybe a similar green was used that may have been a little darker. Edited January 7, 2015 by Tbolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbolt Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Not the Belle, but another picture of a 63rd FS aircraft just to show the darker paint over the ID stripes. Nige might be able to provide you with more info on the Belle. Edited January 7, 2015 by Tbolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lampie Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 P47 in the background is Belle Of Bellemont. You can just see on this that the topsurface invasion stripes have been overpainted in fresh OD. This photo dates from August 44. The area under the canopy,(turtle deck/quarter panel) remained unpainted. The same as U-Dbar in the photo above and many others. (Don't believe any of that "it was painted grey BS" Incidentily, I recenty came across a photo of "Belle" coded UN-F, roughly dated Sept 44 onwards as the aircraft in the flight have blue rudders. Beckers, (later Harts) UN-B certainly looked the part of a war weary workhorse! It was allocated to Hart when Becker finished his tour in August 44 and was lost a couple of weeks later.It's always captioned as being Harts aircraft in that well known colour photo above but it was actually Beckers at the time. We did a cool section about the Panther noseart for the upcoming 56th book. It appeared on no less than 4 different P-47's in total, albeit in an updated version on #3 and 4. Some cool pictures as well,, but I digress............... Belle side view, albeit slightly obscured in this view. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbolt Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Just found another picture of the Belle while looking through pictures to work out drop tanks, doesn't show the over painted stripes, but thought it might help with your model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Eisenman Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Note that the Belle was a NMF aircraft [as was UN*D and UN*B] that received painting in UK. That last picture looks a bit too green for Dark OD. Pewrhaps RAF painrt. So the over painting could be any paint available. Edited January 9, 2015 by Steven Eisenman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbolt Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Note that the Belle was a NMF aircraft [as was UN*D and UN*B] that received painting in UK. That last picture looks a bit too green for Dark OD. Pewrhaps RAF painrt. So the over painting could be any paint available. Yes they are all D-22's and their serial numbers are quite close, but it's hard to save if they were painted anything other than OD with the way it weathered and those photos. Personally I would just use a slightly greener OD for the Belle, rather than a browner one. Edited January 9, 2015 by Tbolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLP Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Thanks A LOT mates, you have been most helpful! Superb pictures and a very good point about the green color. Thanks again! Kenneth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Eisenman Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Yes they are all D-22's and their serial numbers are quite close, but it's hard to save if they were painted anything other than OD with the way it weathered and those photos. Personally I would just use a slightly greener OD for the Belle, rather than a browner one. Look at the canopies and windshield, look at the light color rear quarter panel. When they depot painted the NMF aircraft, they masked the entiore canopy and windshiled, so it was not painted. They did not mask individual frames. The area in the rear quarter panel is NMF. On one aircraft, you can see the paint flake off the fin, on another on the cowl, revealing NMF. Paint was not applied as carefully as in a factory. These are NMF aircraft, as other were in the unit. Here is UN*L and one that has not even received unit codes. Here is a depot painted bubbletop Edited January 9, 2015 by Steven Eisenman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbolt Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 Look at the canopies and windshield, look at the light color rear quarter panel. When they depot painted the NMF aircraft, they masked the entiore canopy and windshiled, so it was not painted. They did not mask individual frames. The area in the rear quarter panel is NMF. On one aircraft, you can see the paint flake off the fin, on another on the cowl, revealing NMF. Paint was not applied as carefully as in a factory. These are NMF aircraft, as other were in the unit. I don't know why you are going on about them being NMF aircraft I was agreeing with you about that point, as I said they are all D-22's and we know since the D-20 production run they were leaving the factory in NMF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lampie Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Here is UN*L and one that has not even received unit codes. Steven, Your "uncoded" razorback is another D-22, 42-26261 UN-I. A presentation aircraft named "Sovereign Senators Tolerance" Another image from the same line up, with the Belle also visible. Probably more familiar to P-47 fans in its later guise after transferring to the 9th Air Force later in the war when it became K4-S of the 511th FS 405th FG Edited January 10, 2015 by lampie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Eisenman Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) I don't know why you are going on about them being NMF aircraft I was agreeing with you about that point, as I said they are all D-22's and we know since the D-20 production run they were leaving the factory in NMF. Perhaps if you had been clearer. You stated: "Yes they are all D-22's and their serial numbers are quite close, but it's hard to save if they were painted anything other than OD with the way it weathered and those photos. Personally I would just use a slightly greener OD for the Belle, rather than a browner one." Your statement could be read to mean that they were originally OD. RAF paints were often used for depot applied camouflage. Does not look like OD at all. Edited January 12, 2015 by Steven Eisenman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmatthewbacon Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Don't worry, TBolt. What you wrote was clear enough to me! Given the number of things that the U.S. Army painted olive drab in WW2, I find it hard to believe that there wasn't at least the odd can knocking around operational units, rather than them having to slink off cap in hand to their nearest RAF airfield's stores to "borrow a cup of your finest green..." Bestest, M. Edited January 12, 2015 by cmatthewbacon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lampie Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Glad you appreciated my clarification on your "uncoded" razorback. Steven Thankyou, you're welcome For information, on other colour photos from that line up the "Belle" looks much more OD than the RAF dark green also used. There is certainly a large variety of variously weathered greens to be seen in that snapshot of the 63rd in action. Edited January 12, 2015 by lampie 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Eisenman Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 OMG now does one have to kiss rings? Sorry accept my sincerest apologies. One usually posts unasked for information out of an interest simply to provide it. If asked for, then. But sorry, if belatedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbolt Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Perhaps if you had been clearer. You stated: "Yes they are all D-22's and their serial numbers are quite close, but it's hard to save if they were painted anything other than OD with the way it weathered and those photos. Personally I would just use a slightly greener OD for the Belle, rather than a browner one." Your statement could be read to mean that they were originally OD. RAF paints were often used for depot applied camouflage. Does not look like OD at all. I did say painted anything other than OD (NMF isn't a paint , well not on real aircraft anyway ), but sorry if it wasn't clear enough. I know some FG's maybe used RAF paints, such as the 78th FG , but I'm sure you know there's a lack of info on this subject and we don't know if they 56th FG did use RAF colours or what the source of colours the 56th FG used on their P-47M's. As for the as for Belle, in both of those photo's of the left hand side there seems to be a more brown OD drab, like we expect from aged OD, at the top of the cowling and then a more greener colour, which looks like when they painted the aircraft they didn't over paint the existing anit-glare panel, on the cowling at least. So the question is why would they not over paint the anti-glare panel if they were using a different green? Or did they not bother painting over the anti-glare panel because they were using OD again and we are just seeing old and newish OD? Anyway when I come to do this aircraft I will just paint it similar to these photo's - OD for the top of the cowl and OD mixed with something greener for the rest. Edited January 12, 2015 by Tbolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lampie Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Ah bless your little cotton socks Steven, You just can't help yourself can you Go on, have another go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miracle Paint Masks Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I'm tempted to coment, but I don't want to lower the tone, I'll get my coat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tank152 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Well I'd like to add my thanks, I always enjoy reading about the 56th FG . I'll be definitely be investing in your book Nige. Tim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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