1/72 - MiG-21 Fishbed by Eduard

[RidgeRunner]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

AFAIK it's a PF with the PFM fin.  I don't have the 72nd kit,  but since they do a PF/PFM kit, all the bits should be in that. It may amount to the same thing though?

 

http://mig-21.de/english/technicaldataversions.htm

 

 

I looked into what was needed in 1/48th when I did this

That’s correct, Troy. With all the parts in the box, apart from a very few details, it was the decal set I was aiming my enquiry at. It seems odd that they wouldn’t produce an Indian set with it, as you say, being widely used by the second largest MiG-21 operator

 

Martin

[Troy Smith]

2 minutes ago, lasermonkey said:

I thought I read somewhere that the FL also had the Fowler style flaps of the PF variant, so you'd need to buy both the PF and PFL kits, which is kinda an expensive way of doing it.

 

ah,  OK,  a check on the Eduard site reveals that they have replicated the 48th options, and have a separate PF and PFM kit, it had originally been listed as combined PF/PFM kit though,  as this was mentioned by @RidgeRunner

 

OK

PF kit main parts     https://www.eduard.com/eduard/mig-21pf-1-72.html

 

PFM kit main parts   https://www.eduard.com/eduard/mig-21pfm-1-72-1.html

 

 

which look to be a PITA for the 72nd builders.... unless they decide that a MiG-21 variant that saw a lot of actual use might be worth kitting...

 

In 48th the fin sprue is a separate bit,  the only time I ordered off Eduard direct,  I asked for, and was supplied with the PFM fin sprue,  to got with my PF kit.  

 

Apologies for the confusion @lasermonkey

 

 

[Troy Smith]

5 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

That’s correct, Troy. With all the parts in the box, apart from a very few details, it was the decal set I was aiming my enquiry at. It seems odd that they wouldn’t produce an Indian set with it, as you say, being widely used by the second largest MiG-21 operator

 

Martin

sadly it seems they don't do a PF/PFM combo kit...  see my post above.  

[RidgeRunner]

Sorry chaps if I’ve confused things. I meant that the PFM has everything for an FL. it doesn’t have a PF set of parts included. 

 

Martin

[Troy Smith]

14 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

I meant that the PFM has everything for an FL. it doesn’t have a PF set of parts included. 

OK.  I can see a slight difference in the wings, there is a part on the bottom of the PFM wing.

Does the PFM kit have the earlier seat as well?   I can see it has a multiple canopy sprue.

[lasermonkey]

11 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

Sorry chaps if I’ve confused things. I meant that the PFM has everything for an FL. it doesn’t have a PF set of parts included. 

 

Martin

But I'm not sure it has. I'm very new to the MiG-21 and have been reading up on the different variants over the long, sleepless nights of late. I'm sure that one of the Hungarian MiG-21 experts wrote that the PF and FL versions had Fowler style flaps, while the PFM had different (equal chord top and bottom) flaps. If this is correct, I guess it would be possible to attach the "normal" flaps and fill/rescribe as appropriate, but it's possible that there may be more to it than that.

 

Looking at the two sprues above, it doesn't look like a simple case of Eduard switching out the wing parts, should they feel inclined to release an FL. I guess what we need is for someone to do a PFM style replacement fin/spine part conversion? Again, I'm new to '-21s, so may well be wrong!

 

Cheers,

Mark.

[Troy Smith]

12 minutes ago, lasermonkey said:

I'm sure that one of the Hungarian MiG-21 experts wrote that the PF and FL versions had Fowler style flaps, while the PFM had different (equal chord top and bottom) flaps. If this is correct, I guess it would be possible to attach the "normal" flaps and fill/rescribe as appropriate, but it's possible that there may be more to it than that.

my source is the page i linked.

http://mig-21.de/english/technicaldataversions.htm

 

but looking at the PF vs PFM sprues above, I can see now you describe the difference, that the flaps are as described.  

 

12 minutes ago, lasermonkey said:

Looking at the two sprues above, it doesn't look like a simple case of Eduard switching out the wing parts, should they feel inclined to release an FL. I guess what we need is for someone to do a PFM style replacement fin/spine part conversion? Again, I'm new to '-21s, so may well be wrong!

 

I suspect the simpler method is filling the and rescribing the flap lines, probably easier in 72nd.   One Hungarian expert who was a member here unfortunately got himself banned,  but I think he is still on ARC,  which is often better on jets.  

 

At least now  we have pinned down the issues  to be clarified.

 

Eduard seem happy enough tooling up new parts trees though, but they also tend to replicate their 48th system/variants down to 72nd.   

[Laurent]

8 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

I suspect the simpler method is filling the and rescribing the flap lines, probably easier in 72nd.

There's more to it. The versions with Fowler flaps had a rail on the fuselage (so that the flap could go back and downwards) and the flap  actuator fairing was on the wing bottom next to the outer side of the flap.  On the versions equipped with blown flaps, the flap acuator fairing was not far from the middle of the flap and overlapping the flap and the wing.

[Troy Smith]

12 minutes ago, Laurent said:

On the versions equipped with blown flaps, the flap acuator fairing was not far from the middle of the flap and overlapping the flap and the wing.

this is visible on the PFM sprue above.    I can't see the details for the Fowler flaps on the PF sprue, but now we know what too look for

 

[Hook]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

Does the PFM kit have the earlier seat as well? 

Yes, both seats are in the PFM kit.  Those Eduard kits are very good for the spares bin! Incidentally, the spare KM-1 seat in the PF fits neatly in Zvezda's MjG-21bis.

 

I must admit missing the bits about the PM-style flaps on the FL, though. Thanks for the info!

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Laurent]

17 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

this is visible on the PFM sprue above.    I can't see the details for the Fowler flaps on the PF sprue, but now we know what too look for

[RidgeRunner]

Every day is a learning experience ;). Thanks @lasermonkey @Laurent And @Troy Smith.... WHen I get to it, I guess they will be a lot more to consider. I had no idea., 

 

Martin

[Eric B.]

Hi

 

I personnally very recently bought both an Eduard Mig-21PF and PFM Overtree kits from the company's site for this very project.

I had recently found discussions building a Mig-21FL from the Eduard recent releases. I once thought I could get all the bits from a Mig-21PFM kit but I later changed my mind with more information coming. It more or less will be  :

* Mig-21PF canopy (available in PFM kit though), cockpit (didn't check how different they may be in kits) , ejection seat and most importantly wings/flaps

* Mig-21PFM fuselage, spine and fin and rest of details.

 

That will probably leave me with spare parts for an almost complete Mig-21 for and undefined version (maybe an LF 😄) but being Overtree kits I found total price was acceptable for a special unreleased version. 

I am now complete with Mig-21s in 1/72nd scale until Eduard releases the Mig-21Bis and SMT versions... 

 

Eric B.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Eric B.

[Hook]

10 hours ago, Laurent said:

The versions with Fowler flaps had a rail on the fuselage (so that the flap could go back and downwards) and the flap  actuator fairing was on the wing bottom next to the outer side of the flap.

I just did a quick check - the flap guiding rails are on the common PF / PFM sprue. 

 

So, with a bit of rescribing and moving the actuator fairing, a "flaps up" FL might be doable from the PFM boxing.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

 

[Laurent]

1 hour ago, Hook said:

I just did a quick check - the flap guiding rails are on the common PF / PFM sprue.

It's a little inaccuracy from Eduard's part then. The blown flap (SPS) just tilts down so no guiding rails on the PFM and later versions.

[Robert]

Our Hungarian friend has more information http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/311766-mig-21pf-eduard-72nd-scale/&tab=comments#comment-2992250

 

Regards

Robert

[Hook]

2 hours ago, Laurent said:

It's a little inaccuracy from Eduard's part then. The blown flap (SPS) just tilts down so no guiding rails on the PFM and later versions.

Perhaps I should have phrased it more clearly - on the common PF/PFM sprue, Eduard provides seperate guiding rsil parts (parts H1/2) that are marked as not for use in the PFM instructions.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[lasermonkey]

Changing the subject slightly: am I right in thinking that for a MiG-21SM, all I need is the Gorky MF kit, or is there more to it than that?

[Laurent]

1 minute ago, lasermonkey said:

Changing the subject slightly: am I right in thinking that for a MiG-21SM, all I need is the Gorky MF kit, or is there more to it than that?

AFAIK the SM, M and MF (pre-1975) are externally very close if not identical.

[lasermonkey]

1 minute ago, Laurent said:

AFAIK the SM, M and MF (pre-1975) are externally very close if not identical.

Ok, I think I understand now. I had read that the SM was produced at the Gorky factory so had assumed that it would be the same as the later, Gorky-produced MF but, IIRC, these later MFs had various features from the Bis model that was currently being produced at the factory.

 

So I guess it is the Moscow (fighter bomber) kit that I would need then?

 

Thanks for the help, by the way. There's much I need to learn about the MiG-21!

 

Cheers,

Mark.

[Hook]

34 minutes ago, lasermonkey said:

So I guess it is the Moscow (fighter bomber) kit that I would need then?

Yes. AFAIK as built, the SM did not have the rearview mirror on top of the canopy and the anti-FOD fences under the auxilary intakes under the wing roots. A mirrorless canopy is included on the MF clear sprue.

 

Of course, you could also build a MiG-21S with underfuselage GP-9 gun pod...

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[Eric B.]

Hi, 

 

Several of us seem to work on the same projects or have the same questions. I should have asked earlier 😄.

I am currently building what is planned to be a Mig-21SM from an Eduard MF. I think the S did not have the rearview mirror and fences under the auxilliary intakes but the SM either had them or received them later in their operational life.

The one I am building will have both the mirror and the fences making it very close to an MF. I used a "Gorky" kit  ie without the oval shaped panel over the wings. I am not absolutely positive about these panels, but SM plans I could find did not show them (see RV Aircraft book - 1/72 Mig-21 plans).

I somewhere read that one should use a Gorky wing with a Moscow fuselage to build a correct SM but the info was not confirmed/conclusive and enough Eduard boxes mixing with the FL project : I went all the way with a Gorky MF.

Only exterior difference will be using the "spoked" main wheels (not the flush hubbed ones) which already are in the box.

 

Eric B. 

 

[Hook]

27 minutes ago, Eric B. said:

I think the S did not have the rearview mirror and fences under the auxilliary intakes but the SM either had them or received them later in their operational life.

AFAIK most, if not all, S's had these items refitted as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Andte

[Eric B.]

4 hours ago, Hook said:

AFAIK most, if not all, S's had these items refitted as well.

 

Cheers,

 

Andte

Yes agree that!!

 

Eric B.

[caughtinthemiddle]

On 5/24/2020 at 9:10 PM, RidgeRunner said:

That’s correct, Troy. With all the parts in the box, apart from a very few details, it was the decal set I was aiming my enquiry at. It seems odd that they wouldn’t produce an Indian set with it, as you say, being widely used by the second largest MiG-21 operator

 

Martin

That's probably because the 1/48 scale Indian Service boxing was one of the longest selling out limited editions that Eduard has ever released. I also got one when it had hit the market in 2012, and I recall that when I decided to sell it around 2017 or 2018, it was still available in their webshop, so it certainly wasn't a killer...