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1/72 - MiG-21 Fishbed by Eduard


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Tool test

Source: https://www.facebook.com/EduardCompany/posts/1994087587272845

 

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MiG-21MF 1/72 – sprue D – small parts
Tool testing – 12 March 2018
Jura Yermolayev from the Eduard tools workshop holding the brand-new test mold of sprue D for Eduard 1/72 scale MiG-21MF.
As you can see, the result is still not perfect, but we are extensively working on the tool adjusting...!
You too can join the group of those lucky ones to have the brand new 1/72 scale MiG-21 in advance.
The first Run for the pre-release LIBRARY EDITION orders will quit on Thursday, March 15th!

https://www.eduard.com/store/eduard/mig-21mf-library-limited-edition-1-72.html

 

V.P.

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Armement update: https://fr-fr.facebook.com/EduardCompany/posts/1995538817127722

 

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The absence of the as-yet unfinished sprue containing the weapons and related accessories such as missiles, pylons and racks for the 1/72 scale MiG-21MF, for the pre-release LIBRARY EDITION, will be solved by the addition of Brassin parts. In this kit, you will find underwing pylons and racks, belly rack for the main external fuel tank, and four R3-S missiles. The pylon and rocket racks for this edition were designed by the chief of the Brassin production department, Rene Kratochvil.

The first production run for the pre-release LIBRARY EDITION orders will end on Thursday, March 15th!"

https://www.eduard.com/store/eduard/mig-21mf-library-limited-edition-1-72.html

 

29177872_1995538827127721_61597850115128

 

V.P.

Edited by Homebee
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  • 4 weeks later...
3 hours ago, Homebee said:

Such feeling that when Eduard did the tank fairing with alcohol:

bc45539c92c1.jpg

( Resource photo:

http://www.sgvavia.ru/forum/105-932-1 )

he thought that there not the fairing and an embrasure at which embracing a tank alcohol sits armed agent  KGB who which protects alcohol from pilots:

30531006_2027541147260822_67210523599563

:):)

It's edge not thin!!!

 

B.R.

Serge

 

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Hello,

got my MF (Eduard #2124 / limited run) yesterday. The plastic depicts a Gorki produced aircraft, exported to East Germany, Czechoslovkia, Bulgaria, Romania and Poland as already reported elsewhere in this thread. The quality of the moulding is outstanding. My personal impression is that this kit surpasses any MF in 1/72 by a wide margin in quality, details and accuracy. 

The tank fairing mentioned in post #180 by Serge is a seperate part - so its easy to depict it flush or not so flush with the surface ...

 

Regards,

 

Martin

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On 11.04.2018 at 6:29 PM, MVW said:

The tank fairing mentioned in post #180 by Serge is a seperate part - so its easy to depict it flush or not so flush with the surface ...

But what a problem just do it this part with tiny edge? No technology from Eduard? Modelsvit have technology when molded tiny edge on their models, but on Eduard no have this technology? :)

It's nonsense!

Yep, many modeller's who have arms from the shoulders, fix this problem 5-10 minutes (10 minutes if watching TV & topic abouts Eduard MiG-21 on www.britmodeller.com and slowly drinking cup of tea! :) ) work with a model knife. But why create modeller's problems in detail?

 

B.R.

Serge

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20 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

But what a problem just do it this part with tiny edge? No technology from Eduard? Modelsvit have technology when molded tiny edge on their models, but on Eduard no have this technology? :)

It's nonsense!

I'm not sure it's possible compare as the technology may not be the same. AFAIK Eduard uses steel moulds made from CNC and EDM and high pressure injection. What technology Modelsvit uses for their toolings ?

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5 hours ago, Laurent said:

I'm not sure it's possible compare as the technology may not be the same. AFAIK Eduard uses steel moulds made from CNC and EDM and high pressure injection. What technology Modelsvit uses for their toolings ?

That is fun, because Modelsvit, AVIS e.t.c uses short-run technolodgy! Precession and high-tech technolodgy, but this is short-run toolings! 

 

B.R.

Serge 

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8 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

That is fun, because Modelsvit, AVIS e.t.c uses short-run technolodgy! Precession and high-tech technolodgy, but this is short-run toolings!

What I meant is that a long-run tooling (>50000 injections without maintenance perhaps) may imply more contraints in terms of surface detailing or detailing than a short-run tooling (<3000 injections without maintenance perhaps). What are the technologies used in short-run BTW ?  

Edited by Laurent
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2 hours ago, Laurent said:

What I meant is that a long-run tooling (>50000 injections without maintenance perhaps) may imply more contraints in terms of surface detailing or detailing than a short-run tooling (<3000 injections without maintenance perhaps). What are the technologies used in short-run BTW ?  

Theoretically, steel metal forms allow to do casting under big pressure and to more thinner details. I am not connected with Modelsvit, AVIS e.t.c., I know about their technologies only from rumors from the third parties. There are no details in broad access. Initially in the nineties,
it were technologies of galvanic and casting in copper forms. Copper forms 
limited injection pressure,
therefore YuMTK,  early models A-model and e.t.c. look as horror.
But then, by hearsay there have begun to use other metals and perhaps composite materials which have allowed 
to lift injection pressure, but
durability of such forms still low. Therefore it not 
short-run in classical understanding of it the term, it something intermediate.
Nevertheless if to compare
ejection seat KK-1 from
Modelsvit (I somewhat reduced the walls of the seat, because this can be done easily on the ModelsSvit, but it is very difficult for Eduard)

or KK-1 analog from AVIS (yes I have finished it) with 
KK-1 from Eduard:

20180413_221011.jpg
20180413_221139.jpg
20180413_221229.jpg


 

 

comparison will be not in advantage Eduard.

IMO here it isn't mould technology , here matter in different philosophy mould. Eduard to seek  give it is less than details, it is simplified by building, but loses quality. In relation to KM-1 chair we will be able to check my theory when goes on sale MiG-25 from ICM in 1/72 which has an identical  ejection seat  KM-1 about MiG-21 Eduard.

This will be a really correct comparison.

If KM-1 from ICM in 1/72 is better than KM-1 in 1/72 from Eduard. Then there are only two options. Either Eduard has the worst equipment for the production of molds, or they have worse mold design.

 

B.R.

Serge

Edited by Aardvark
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39 minutes ago, Aardvark said:

Initially in the nineties,
it were technologies of galvanic and casting in copper forms.

Could you please explain more in details the galvanic technology. There's a link somewhere perhaps ?

I have a feeling that this technique that used physical masters allowed details that are hard or impossible to do using CNC machines. Very slightly raised panels, ondulated/rippled surfaces.

NeverthEither Eduard has the worst equipment for the production of molds, or they have worse mold design.

There's a third answer I believe. Eduard started by selling photoetch, then they produced injected kits, then resin parts. Eduard is an eco-system. By making sound but simple plastic kits, then can sell their aftermarket (more profitable to them than plastic kits perhaps) to increase the detail level. Producers like Modelsvit don't belong to an eco-system, they don't try to do "product placement" and they produce "complete" kits.

 

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1 hour ago, Laurent said:

Could you please explain more in details the galvanic technology. There's a link somewhere perhaps ?

I have a feeling that this technique that used physical masters allowed details that are hard or impossible to do using CNC machines. Very slightly raised panels, ondulated/rippled surfaces.

As I have understood technology was such:
1. To make master model of material steady to electrolyte, usually plastic.
2. To apply on master model graphite powder.
3. To ship master model with the applied graphite in electrolyte solution together with a piece of copper.
4. To give current on copper and master model. I don't remember that there the cathode and that the anode, long ago I taught the physicist, but due to process copper accumulates electrolysis on graphite forming a copper crust copying a surface master model and forming a surface of compression molds.
The general theory such is. In early numbers the Russian model magazine of the M-hobby there was article about YuMTK where there was a photo a compression mold on BTR-70 made in such a way.
But it is very backward and primitive technology.

1 hour ago, Laurent said:

There's a third answer I believe. Eduard started by selling photoetch, then they produced injected kits, then resin parts. Eduard is an eco-system. By making sound but simple plastic kits, then can sell their aftermarket (more profitable to them than plastic kits perhaps) to increase the detail level. Producers like Modelsvit don't belong to an eco-system, they don't try to do "product placement" and they produce "complete" kits.

Yepp, it's popular theory about conspiracy model manufacturers and aftermarket. In my opinion, if such a conspiracy really is this wrong way. Why? The world has long been on the verge of global depression if not a new global war. We do not consider the global war, because during it models lose value, we will consider global depression. In periods of global depression, the purchasing power of the population is falling, and people are trying to buy what they need most, refusing to afford themselves luxury. Is the aftermarket a necessity? No! It's more like a luxury. Hence, it can be abandoned. In conditions when you will have a choice between a model requiring an aftermarket and not requiring an aftermarket, what will you choose?

In addition, many traditional technologies have a higher quality than before, so the difference between the aftemarket and the model becomes weak. As an example, the combination of instrument decals with a relief desk has a very small difference with the color photoetch. Ejection seat in mould approached the quality of the aftermarket resin set, wheel in mould approached the quality of the aftermarket resin set

etc.

What for in such conditions to pay money for aftermarket?

 

B.R.

Serge

 

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13 hours ago, Aardvark said:

Yepp, it's popular theory about conspiracy model manufacturers and aftermarket.

 

The theory is particularly plausible when the same producer offers injected plastic kits AND aftermarket. Special Hobby and CMK belong to the same group ? If so the situation is the same as Eduard. I wonder if it isn't a "Czech thing"... RV initially sold the MiG-21 without wing pylons, missile rails and wing tanks. For me it killed the kit to a certain extent: I'm a MiG-21 fan but I didn't anything more than the SMT boxing. The nose and windscreen shape issues didn't help of course.

13 hours ago, Aardvark said:

In conditions when you will have a choice between a model requiring an aftermarket and not requiring an aftermarket, what will you choose?

In addition, many traditional technologies have a higher quality than before, so the difference between the aftemarket and the model becomes weak.

It is true that technology allows to produce kits detailed enough that no AM is required but that's a customer point-of-view. The producer point-of-view is "If I do this, would the kit be more profitable ?". The producer has to calculate the cost/benefit ratio. Very detailed kit = increased parts counts (to manage undercuts) = kit more complex so more tedious to build so less "rebuyable" and more sprues so production of a box takes longer and the tooling budget is increased. It a matter of balance. Producers of über kits may face high production cost and have big difficulties breaking even especially when the distribution network is limited. The producer is walking on a tight rope... unbalance and he falls (he slowly spirals down rather). Every producer needs to be careful, even Tamiya: initially they release the 1/72 F-16 with very limited optional parts (pylons, wing tanks, ordnance)... they changed their mind, more optional parts were added. Kit is more "buyable" but production cost increased. Again it's a matter of balance. If the producer cuts costs too much, the customer gives him the finger. If the producer costs are too high, he makes no profit and cannot fund further projects.

Edited by Laurent
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On 13. 4. 2018 at 1:01 PM, Aardvark said:

But what a problem just do it this part with tiny edge? No technology from Eduard? 

More likely molding limits. If you check the break up of the parts, you will find out that it would most likely be very very hard, if not impossible, to mold this area with thinner edge using a regular two part mold.  See the picture of the part in sprue of the profipack edition here: https://ipmsnymburk.com/forum/viewtema.php?ID_tema=40149 -- there's also preview of the decals (main sheet printed by Cartograf), PE and instructions for all the schemes included in the PP.

 

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Eduard intentionally oversimplifies certain plastic parts to sell their aftermarket materials - cockpits ,tyres and armaments are common suspect  . The mig-21 has not even hit the stall and eduard has already started advertising aftermarket tyres whose major selling point over the styrene variant is that they have the brand engraved on the tyre . Except that eduard can just as easily do this in styrene as well - their 72nd scale avia b.534 is a good example ( the tyres in said kit have the goodyear logo engraved ).

I don't believe the high end styrene molding presses suffer from any limitations , one only needs to check out the 72nd scale tamiya Mitsubishi zero kit - some of the parts are finer than what eduard can manage  only with resin . AMK recently supplied their 72nd scale kfir kit with exemplary slide moulded missiles and bombs that are in one piece with really thin fins , something that previously was only possible with resin and PE fins . 

Edited by Basuroy
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So, next Big Big Sin for Eduard 1/72 MiG-21MF will contain ( Non Exhaustive)

 

1/72 MiG-21MF Front fuselage. ( Include Right AND Left part !)  (Eduard).

1/72 MiG-21MF Scale thick Nose for Brassin MiG-21 Front fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Blue tinted Cockpit Tub for Brassin Front fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Green tinted Cockpit Tub for Brassin Front fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Detailed Seat (Without Harness) for Brassin Cockpit Tub for Brassin Front fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Tissue Harness (Without Buckles) for Brassin Detailed Seat (Without Harness) for Brassin Cockpit Tub for Brassin Front fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Colour PE Buckles for Brassin Tissue Harness (Without Buckles) for Brassin Detailed Seat (Without Harness) for Brassin Cockpit Tub for Brassin Front fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Nose Shock Cone for Brassin Nose for Brassin Front fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Right Wing.

1/72 MiG-21MF Left Wing Main UC Bay.

1/72 MiG-21MF Right Wing Aileron for Brassin Right Wing.

1/72 MiG-21MF Right Flap for Brassin Right Wing.

1/72 MiG-21MF Left Wing .

1/72 MiG-21MF Left Wing Main UC Bay.

1/72 MiG-21MF Left Wing Aileron for Brassin Left Wing.

1/72 MiG-21MF Left Flap for Brassin Left Wing.

1/72 MiG-21MF AFT Left Fuselage for Brassin One Piece Front Fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF AFT Right Fuselage for Brassin One Piece Front Fuselage. (ONLY for the ones who purchased the Left part.)

1/72 MiG-21MF Right Tailplane for Brassin Aft Fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Left Tailplane for Brassin Aft Fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Scale thick Exhaust Nozzle for Brassin Aft Fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Scale thick Rings for Brassin AFT Fuselage.

1/72 MiG-21MF Tail for Brassin  Aft Fuselage. (One piece. Without Rudder and parachute pack)

1/72 MiG-21MF Parachute Pack for Brassin Tail. ( Without parachute.)

1/72 MiG-21MF Rudder for Brassin Tail.

1/72 MiG-21MF Various Antennas and Different scoops (Eduard).( Real bargain !)

1/72 MiG-21MF Super Platinum Control Stick. (Eduard).(ON DEMAND ONLY)

1/72 MiG-21MF Windscreen Frame only.

1/72 MiG-21MF Canopy Frame only.

1/72 MiG-21MF Especially ScaleThick Blown Perspex Canopy. (New See through High Technology)

1/72 MiG-21MF Especially ScaleThick Armoured, Optical Flat Windscreen. (New See through High Technology)

1/72 MiG-21MF Especially ScaleThick Windscreen Right side panel. (New See through High Technology)

1/72 MiG-21MF Especially ScaleThick Windscreen Left  side panel. (New See through High Technology)

 

For the rest, please wait until First of April 2019 for our Revised New, Nippon tooled, Mold, and definitive 1/72 +++ MiG-21MF (Moscow and Gorky Plants) with working instruments, SPS System and Braking Parachute !

 

Madcop :lol:

 

 

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On 4/14/2018 at 7:41 PM, Basuroy said:

Eduard intentionally oversimplifies certain plastic parts to sell their aftermarket materials - cockpits ,tyres and armaments are common suspect  . The mig-21 has not even hit the stall and eduard has already started advertising aftermarket tyres whose major selling point over the styrene variant is that they have the brand engraved on the tyre . Except that eduard can just as easily do this in styrene as well - their 72nd scale avia b.534 is a good example ( the tyres in said kit have the goodyear logo engraved ).

I don't believe the high end styrene molding presses suffer from any limitations , one only needs to check out the 72nd scale tamiya Mitsubishi zero kit - some of the parts are finer than what eduard can manage  only with resin . AMK recently supplied their 72nd scale kfir kit with exemplary slide moulded missiles and bombs that are in one piece with really thin fins , something that previously was only possible with resin and PE fins . 

 

 

 

If that's the case then they shouldn't be doing that.  They and all model companies should strive to get their plastic kits as good as possible not  intentionally simplify the parts to sell their resin etc.   Many modellers don't like resin too.

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18 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Since it is all printed and ready to go to the shops I don’t think they will reprint all the instruction sheets just because of this mistake.

What is the problem of printing a separate sheet of paper with the correct operation? Nobody insures against such mistakes! I had Hasegawa Ki-61 in 1/72, there was also an error in the instructions. Hasegawa put into the model a separate instruction the size of two match boxes where only this operation was depicted separately. But she was portrayed correctly!

 

B.R.

Serge

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20 hours ago, SeaVenom said:

 

 

 

If that's the case then they shouldn't be doing that.  They and all model companies should strive to get their plastic kits as good as possible not  intentionally simplify the parts to sell their resin etc.   Many modellers don't like resin too.

Why?

 

Eduard has found a formula that obviously works for them: well-moulded plastic kits that can be built with as little or as much aftermarket enhancement as the builder desires. The aren't doing anything unethical or anticompetitive so it's a bit ridiculous to criticize Eduard's business model based on what you think they should be doing.In the end, if they don't make money they'll go out of business. 

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