daniele0865 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Iain, I'm very interested in a similar thread on the HPH Hornet. I have one in the stash. I supposed a lot of work was needed to correct the errors , but I hadn't the necessary info. Now I'm learning a lot from John's work and I'm sure much more will follow. Thank you all. Daniele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rogers Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Jennings makes great transfers, did the Victory Productions 'Aces of the Empire' set which is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) For the windscreen, the front is "frameless". The two side glass panels butt up against the front screen, and are actually pulled together with a 1/4" dia steel rod on the original , secured between the top and bottom castings. This rod is sealed on the outside with a 1/2" bead of black mastic. The top and bottom castings are airframe colour. I know that DH were innovative but the second sentence had/has me a bit puzzled. Could you possibly explain to this retired aircraft engineer just how this was accomplished, as technical as you like, as I have visions of bits coming adrift. I am assuming that the windscreen assembly complete was jig built first then offered up to the aircraft. Was there no air gap to prevent misting up ? and was the front windscreen not bullet proof ? ( I am thinking bird strikes here !). Supplementary question - Main undercarriage ? - Oleo pneumatic, liquid spring or compressed rubber blocks ? Before I go I thought that I would put these up from my files for all to enjoy :- To me, this one below is the epitome of the aerodynamic definition of "Smooth", nothing to do with paint, Paint Police and if Airfix do produce a kit of the Hornet may I tactfully suggest that they send their trench digger on gardening leave. :- Great thread, great people and like a fine dinner, great Company. I have enjoyed this one. Dennis Edit, almost forgot this shot :- Edited January 16, 2015 by sloegin57 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Dennis The Hornet used Rubber in compression and the Sea hornet Lockheed Airdraulic. (Trumpeter probably Rhubarb and Custard) Tail wheel Rubber in compression. Superb photos Love the one on the compass swing base. This is a piece clipped from the AP and though simplistic clearly shows the two rods which draw the lower and rear castings together trapping the three pieces of glazing together. The windscreen was a thick bullet proof sheet and the rods ran down the edge. David is building one of these from scratch so he's the guy to give chapter and verse. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Oh, now I get it- I had read that as a rod (or rods) across, and couldn't quite imagine where they'd be. bob p.s. That PR.II - overall PRU Blue, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Gorgeous photos Dennis - and useful AP scan John - this thread just gets better and better! Who's going to write the 'DH Hornet and how to model it' book? Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Well, David's mentioned it here and we have both discussed it in the past. It's really a matter of a reliable/interested UK publisher and cost and time. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvyn hiscock Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Speaking of the windscreen. I did hear once, and may be completely wrong, that the panels were arranged so that the reflective index cancelled out the uprights and you could look clear through the lot. I'd love to think this is true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Note on Dennis's top photo. under the canopy the catapult adjustable head support is visible (the horizontal bar sticking out from the Armour plate) and is not fitted to RAF Hornets. Sometimes you will see the aileron locking bar clipped on top of it. This I understand was to lock the aileron controls when folding the wings. Another difference in this area is the folding access ladder which on RAF aeroplanes is stowed vertically behind the plate. and on Sea Hornets the ladder is stowed horizontal at a diagonal angle.The two springs behind are for the canopy jettison mechanism. For Melvyn,s question I think David needs to answer this. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloegin57 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 p.s. That PR.II - overall PRU Blue, then? Yes Bob as far as I am aware, it was PR Blue overall with Type "B" national markings. The reason for the code "R" in white is not known. All. :- Beware of this particular photo. The original negative, possibly a full plate glass negative, appears to have been heavily re-touched to take the background out, but not on the aircraft. The image is pin sharp (see..."Jack 'N Trestle" enlargement) but there is a possibility that small items on the airframe, aerials, small scoops etc may well have been "painted " out as well. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Speaking of the windscreen. I did hear once, and may be completely wrong, that the panels were arranged so that the reflective index cancelled out the uprights and you could look clear through the lot. I'd love to think this is true! You heard correctly. I have a photo taken from the pilots perspective, and it does look unobstructed from the inside..... however, because of the light effectively coming to the pilots eye through a prism, where the corners of the glass panels meet, this is only an illusion. You actually end up with invisible blind spots, as confirmed by a few Hornet pilots I have spoken with! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Kunac-Tabinor Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Just a note to anyone thinking the Dynavector vac-form rudder will fit the kit fin. It will, with "some" work. Whether this work is easier than filling in the Trumpeter rudder depressions and reshaping is moot. Ask me how I know this.....! have been marking out wing tops using Johns plans - when I'm next at home I'll post a pic - as it shows whats wrong with Trumpy panel lines. I also finished reshaping the canopy last night - but need to address the pen nib fairing at the rear as its a bit short. Pics to follow. Just trying to work out the best way to address the undercarriage and bays too ( and, no; not, "Hello Mr Hornet undercarriage, how are you today?") I also think the fuselage is perhaps a tad too deep, but it the kind of tad that some robust sanding would de-tad. It just seems to lack that slimness, though it's elusive, and I'm picky. LOL Cheers to JA & DC though as this thread is now THE definitive Hornet thread, anywhere, period. Jonners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Jon I see the telepathy is working as I was just about to conjure you up from your brimstone lair. Even just a 3 mm in the rear end brings back that sleekness of line. Just a note the lack of pen nib length is Okay for a n NF.21 but of course not the single seat Hornets. As to the U/c bays I have just re shaped my prototypes. As I have shown the bay opening needs to be moved back by 3 mm. Also when the nacelle is lengthened any spacer needs to go as near the firewall as possible but this brings it's own problems with the odd shape of each side of the nacelle. This is why I used the nacelles from two kits which of course I do not expect anyone else to do. So my nacelles are close to being completed and as soon as possible I will try to mould them. This will take about a week (depending on what time I can spare) so as far as commercial replacements go there will be a bit of a hiatus. (for which I expect you to fill in with a bit of a song and dance act). Just a warning be careful of trying to match the kit parts too closely to my drawings. The reason is if there are variations of wing section, incidence etc between the kit and true datum's then you can hit problems. Build to fit the kit wing as to change anything major on the wing is IMO going to take this exercise beyond the brief. John I am about to start on a master for the u/c replacement parts so perhaps we should talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 As for reshaping the kit parts I found with the fin and rudder, it's best to shorten them at the base as in my early postings and reshape the curvy bits slightly. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'm sure the hood glazing on the NF.21 was the same as standard, but the metal fairing was shortened for clearance on the observers bubble when the canopy was opened. If there was a difference then David will know. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) The canopy perspex and windscreen assembly is the same on all marks. Only the NF21 has a shorter metal fairing at the rear, as when it is fully opened, it needs to clear the radar operators blister. Edited January 16, 2015 by David A Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Stunning work guys, the Hornet is the most glorious looking twin ever made except for it's big brother! my old man who was an airframe mechanic back in the late '40s has told me a few stories about pilots aerobatting the Hornet, and he always maintained that it was the most manoeverable twin he ever saw, with pilots claiming that even the front line single prop fighters of the day had no chance against a pilot in a Hornet who was at the top of his game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 For anyone building the kit 'out of the box', don't fit part A5 because it doesn't exist. I think they have mistaken the Sea Hornet ladder stowage position for a bar going from the back of the armour plate, and totally missed out the catapult headrest. Also the Sea Hornet NF.21 exhaust shrouds as modelled are rather odd in shape. There were two types of exhaust used on Sea Hornets, the standard five pipe type (with a bifurcated fifth pipe to exhaust two cylinders) and a saxophone four pipe type which is the only one to be used under the shrouds and not provided in the kits. The shrouds were often removed on NF.21's thus exposing the saxophone type exhaust. PR.22's can also be seen with the shrouded exhaust fitted. The tail wheel in the kit should be of the twin track anti-shimmy Marstrand type (similar to a Vampire nose wheel), the tail wheel upper body is also wrong but unless you're into sexing chickens you won't see it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ththtttu7 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The hornet tail wheel and tyre is the exact same part as used on the vampire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 David. That was going to be my next email to you. to ask if there was a parallel user. Thank you. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 I mentioned the mods needed to the moving surfaces and getting rid of the 'fabric effect'. They need to be reshaped slightly so I think what I will do in the correction kit I'm working on, is to include drawings to help correct the standard kit pieces to show where to remove material and reshape. One of my favorite weapons is a 'Farmers friend' file, these are the ones sold for sharpening grass cutting blades with the integral forged handle. They are single cut and I find them so useful on plastic. I've just used mine to remove the fabric effect from the rudders which it did in minutes. The seat in the kit, David informs me, isn't correct but also I note that it sits too upright. The real seat back sits at about 25 deg from the vertical. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Speaking of sexing chickens, which I've never done before... please believe me I'll be looking for some info on the tail wheel myself down the line, as my Dynavector build has a "shelf" on which you place the metal wheel. Can you point me in the direction of some pics of the bay/strut please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Here ya go Mike... When the tail wheel jack shortens , it withdraws the locking pin and pivots the whole assembly. This is a busy bit of the aeroplane as it carries the fin/rudder and tailplane and tail wheel mounting brackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Superb John, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Aero Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Well except for modding the exhaust recesses that is most of the heavy work done on the nacelles. The next stage will be to do new u/c legs and u/c bay bulkheads. As someone who hasn't made a model for pleasure for 35 years I feel a strange compulsion to find a 'tube of glue' and stick this lot together... Heh heh heh John 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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