RAF jet fest Part 2 - Phantom done - Jaguar fun/pain next...

[Alex Gordon]

I might be wrong but the pods you are looking for are in the Airfix 1/48th Canberra B(I)8 kit.

Piccie to follow.

[RMP2]

I asked what they were from when they arrived and I was told that the pods are from Academys 1/48 Hunter kit, which certainly looks right to me:

[Alex Gordon]

The photo in this thread should give you chapter and verse.The pods do look like the ones in the Canberra kit,I'm waiting for the camera batteries to charge before I can post up a piccie. http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/276176-camera-pod-phantom-fgr2-sparrow-launcher.html

Edited to add;

Piccie of the Canberra pods,shown with the 2" pods for a size comparison.

Hope this helps.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Alex Gordon

[RMP2]

Cheers, Alex. Youre right, theyre the pods (18 x 2"/50mm and 36 x 68mm) as carried by British aircraft. The 18 shot ones are indeed what would be correct for my Phantom.

Right, Ive done some digging and hope Ive got this right as it will be here for future reference for others, as basic as it is:

The 18 shot pod with two rows of 68mm rockets was the Matra Type 155 and the rockets were SNEBs. As used by RAF Harriers, Jaguars, Phantoms etc.

The 36 shot pod with three rows of 2"/50mm rockets was (I think) the No.7 Mk1 Pod with, well, 36 x 2" RPs in it. This was the FAA pod as carried by the Navys Buccaneer, Sea Vixen, Phantom and Sea Harrier.
The RAF Harrier GR3 had to use these when onboard ship for the Falklands War as the the Naval electronic environment onboard ship conflicted with the 18 shot 68mm SNEB pod.

Details of the 36 shot 2" rocket pod seem very elusive and its often referred to as a 36 shot Matra 155 which I dont believe is quite correct.

There are other pods used by the RAF and Navy, but they are flat fronted, frangible nosed, of much lower capacity or obviously different shaped to the cone nosed ones above that we know so well.

All of this is a bit redundant when it comes to my poor half built Phantom as the 12 round pods I was sent are still a great unknown to Google images other than in photos of Academys Hunter. Do Academy ever make mistakes?

As much as the pods continue to bug me, the 12 round ones will do, theyre rocket pods, Ive got ten of them, thatll do.

Edited May 10, 2015 by RMP2

[Covjets13]

Great build, build it clean with just the centre tank

[RMP2]

Sounds like a plan.

[RMP2]

The Hasegawa weapons arrived and I was pleasantly surprised to find not just anti sway bars for the TERs and MERs are included, but also anti sway bars specifically to fit a Revells/Hasegawa Phantoms gappy pylons. Bit of a Brucey Bonus there.

Ok, so they dont fit great but the inner wing pylons need a tidy anyway after removing the stupidly fitted Sidewinder rails, no idea who was dumb enough to have glued those on...

Also looks like little trouble to chop the MERs down to TERs.

As for the plane itself, not much gone on - tail has been corrected and I think the intakes are as good as theyre going to get. Final fillering going on with Tippex and IPA, then I really must decide how Im going to go about painting it - shading, daring to airbrush camo for the first time, need to commit to something.

[RMP2]

Noticed something else on your Phantom for the period you are depicting.

The ground attack days pre-dated the fin top RWR fairing. So your jet should have the rounded fin top.

Forgot - after I corrected the tail fit tip, I stumbled across this image which I think shows training bomb dispensers on a RWR equiped FGR2. Or are they not bomb dispensers?

[Starfighter]

The dispensers are indeed practice bomb carriers. They were known as CBLS ( carrier, bomb light store ) and carried four practice bombs. you can get them from David J. Parkins, and very good they are, too, as I have a pair for my future 17 squadron FGR 2 build. I just wish I'd had a pound for every time I loaded and unloaded these "Back in the day " ! HTH.

[Starfighter]

PS: As a point of interest, that a/c is one of my old 17 squadron machines . . . If you look carefully you can see where the fuselage and nose emblems have been painted out.

[RMP2]

Hmm. So the RWR being fitted doesnt mean that the ground attack role had been removed?

[RMP2]

The dispensers are indeed practice bomb carriers. They were known as CBLS ( carrier, bomb light store ) and carried four practice bombs. you can get them from David J. Parkins, and very good they are, too, as I have a pair for my future 17 squadron FGR 2 build. I just wish I'd had a pound for every time I loaded and unloaded these "Back in the day " ! HTH.

I have a couple of SUU-20 dispensers in the Hasegawa weapons box, one or two would look nice on a Starfighter to tie in with your FGR2.

[Starfighter]

I have a couple of SUU-20 dispensers in the Hasegawa weapons box, one or two would look nice on a Starfighter to tie in with your FGR2.

That's a very kind offer,RMP2, but I've already got 5 F-104's built. However, one of those SUU 20's would certainly look good on my 1/48 F-100D ( ANOTHER future build ! ) If you would like to part with them PM me and maybe we can sort something out.

[blikkey]

The dispensers are indeed practice bomb carriers. They were known as CBLS ( carrier, bomb light store ) and carried four practice bombs. you can get them from David J. Parkins, and very good they are, too, as I have a pair for my future 17 squadron FGR 2 build. I just wish I'd had a pound for every time I loaded and unloaded these "Back in the day " ! HTH.

Not the old bombs on bombs off

[Phone Phixer]

Hmm. So the RWR being fitted doesnt mean that the ground attack role had been removed?

The RWR modification programme started in the 70's (according to Wikipedia). The Jaguar started replacing the Phantom in the ground attack role from 1974, so it was a matter of timing, not role when aircraft received the mod.

Generally speaking, time wise the Phantoms were in the AD role when the mod was carried out. That photo of the 2 Sqn jet must have been one of the first jets modded.

There is a photo on the 19(F) facebook page of the jets lined up at Akrotiri in 1979, some of them still have rounded fin tips.

[iainpeden]

And 2 were a recce unit anyway

[RMP2]

And 2 were a recce unit anyway

Would they not carry air to ground weapons as well as or instead of cameras?

[Max Headroom]

And 2 were a recce unit anyway

True but I have seen pictures of them armed. I *think* it was in the Linewrights booklet on British Phantoms.

Great work on the model so far btw. I have a Revell M in the stash waiting for my attention.

Trevor

[Covjets13]

Have a look here......

http://www.neomega-resin.com/matra-2-rocket-pod-673-p.asp

Hope that helps?

Si

[RMP2]

Thanks, Si. Unfortunately its the two row launchers that are correct for an RAF Phantom and the ones you posted are the three row ones.

Not to worry, I have enough two row ones now to do what I want, even if theyre not strictly accurate, being a few rockets short, theyll do me - Ive had enough of this rocket pod stuff!!

Little to update Im sorry to say. I discovered how useful those spongey sanding sticks are though, wish Id tried them sooner.

Pretty much everything is primed now and 95% filled and looking good enough for me. So just about ready for paint. Again/still.

How fiddly are the PE FOD covers??? No fun there at all, but hey, its a challenge, right?

The Big Ed canopy masks confuse me a little - can any one help as the destructions arent all that clear which go on the inside and which on the outside?

I can see some are slightly smaller than the others... but the paperwork is a bit vague to say the least.

Sorry if Im being a bit 15 watt there, Just dont want to screw it up.

Edited June 5, 2015 by RMP2

[RMP2]

Ok, Im at the point where Im ready to mask and paint. Trouble is Ive only ever painted aircraft with a hairy stick. I do have a half decent airbrush here, used it on a few car models but thats easy for me, just blast away and polish, job done.

So, I am in need of a guide of some sort. Any pointers for a good, complete guide for doing the Phantom in camo? I have the following in front of me in order of relevance:

Halfords Enamel Grey Primer rattle can (kit is coated in this).

Tamiya & general masking tape.

Blutack.

Humbrol enamels in pretty much every tin they ever produced.

Halfords Clear Lacquer rattle can.

Are Humbrol enamel and Halfords stuff ok to use together?

I am aware of the blutack masking methods and general tape masking, but a little unsure of how to go about masking the cockpit (Big Ed pack is here with masks), likewise re the intakes.

An idiots guide walk through of a similar sort of build would be ideal and I am sorry if I have missed such a thing on here, I looked, but didnt find a full, all in one plan of action.

Any help is much appreciated, its all a lot more scary than just lobbing it on with a brush and I dont want to screw this or the waiting kits right up. Please be gentle with me.

Edited June 12, 2015 by RMP2

[RMP2]

Slow going as ever.

Decided to brave some first time preshading only to find Im short of some matt black. No idea how that happened, but just when I was on a roll (for me) it ended. So heres the sad state of affairs as of now:

Almost properly glued PE FOD covers painted in Mazda Classic Red with over enthusiastic silver dry brushing and wheels painted with Honda Frost White to match the weel wells...

Seeing as Ive hit another wall, I turned to the diorama space and stolen runway prints. The prints will get some work on the PC to break the repetetive pattern up and make me feel a bit better about my blatant theft.

Theres room for either another Phantom alongside or perhaps a nice Jag along with some vehicles and general stuff, will see what turns up. The flywheel wont be staying.

No shortage of weapons for this. Just dont mention the rocket pods, theyll be fine.

Lessons learnt so far:

Sharp blades. You need those.

Filler is a bore, see above.

Tippex is awesome as a final filler, see above.

Sanding sticks are brilliant things, see above.

Time is hard to find...

Next:

Get over the fear of airbrushing camo and decent masking. How hard can it be?

Order some paint you muppet.

In the meantime practice some washes on the U/C doors and stuff, its gloss, Hondas finest, itll be fine.

[phildagreek]

I bet it sounded simple when you first thought about it. Phantom. RAF. Rockets. Maybe bombs. Right, crack on. Ha!

However, good effort so far, don't give up, looks good so far. Don't forget, there is always the phinal diorama;

"Phantom crash site"

Well done.

[RMP2]

Way back when it was all fields around here I would have had this done over a weekend, a week at worst, homework dependant. 25+ years later, things are different. 8 months and counting I believe... Shocking.

In my defence there is a 1/48 Lightning in a similar sorry state, so its not all bad.

Paints are ordered. In the meantime Im going to mess with the runway slabs and see what the A3 printer at work can produce, going to be much quicker to get some groundwork sorted that way than me starting a base from scratch I feel.

Also need to look into washes that will complement the Humbrol enamel thats going on the Phantom - its what I have loads of, so thats what Im sticking with, unfortunately.

Going for a Series 3 Landy, a Houchin Power Unit, some steps and general detrious to go with the FGR and the wrong ground crew, made a decision there. Still undecided about using the Airfix Jag I have here or grabbing another Phantom to make up the rest of the shelf space though.

Really want this done now so I can get onto the low level inflight Lightning/Starfighter chase diorama thingy. Got trees and alsorts of stuff waiting to be used... all the gear, no idea....

Edited June 23, 2015 by RMP2

[Tiger331]

Would they not carry air to ground weapons as well as or instead of cameras?

IIRC the RAF F-4M (FGR.2) Tactical Recce outfits (II(AC) and 41(F) Sqn) had a secondary Ground Attack role so they were often seen with offensive weapons loaded. In fact, some of the most well known images of the early 1970s portraying heavy weapons loads on RAF F-4Ms were of a 41(F) Sqn jet, which was a bit ironic since 6 and 54 Sqn were the first units to have Ground Attack as their primary role !. As a previous co-respondent has already said, the fin top RWR fairings were fitted just as the RAFG aircraft were transitioning from the Ground Attack/Tactical Recce role to that of AD. No II(AC) Squadron was the last to transition to the Jaguar and release its F-4Ms and as a result, during the transition and as aircraft were modified, those RWR equipped aircraft that had not already been allocated to AD Squadrons went back to II(AC) Sqn for a very brief spell. I suspect we are only talking about 2-3 airframes at most. XT901/T certainly sported both II(AC) markings and the RWR fairing simultaneously. Interestingly this aircraft also sported two different styles of squadron markings with the adoption of red/black fuselage flashes and fin codes (in a triangle) which replaced the Black/White markings some time in 1975 before the Squadron converted to the Jaguar in early 1976. The only other 'ground attack' FGR.2 that I have seen sporting the RWR fairing was a 31 Squadron example, again in 1975. XV491 had the fairing fitted just prior to re-allocation to an AD Squadron. This aircraft was lost in 1982, whilst operating with 23 Sqn. I have not found any photos of either 14 or 17 Sqn jets with the RWR fairing - not surprising since these units had largely transitioned to the Jaguar before the RWR modification programme had been properly established.

HTH