perdu Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 The good old money shots We love money shots Debs I love the flight deck too fabulous stuff b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Womby Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 This is turning into a terrific record of Dominie history and build improvements. Thanks for that. David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 These 2 shots are actually from an HS125 CC1 (HS125-400) conversion I did using parts from both the Airfix Dominie kit as well as the Matchbox HS125 CC2 (HS125-600) but they serve to show how the flight deck goes together and how it has been shortened: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Great thread, both in terms of the very practical kit improvement how-to tutorial, and the background colour on operating the aircraft, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 As noted previously, Airfix got the position of the main undercarriage too far aft. Furthermore on all pre-Series 400 aircraft (which includes the Dominie) wheelbay doors were not fitted, the wheels being visible when retracted. So we really have to address this. Note: The 'Warpaint' plans by Richard Knowles show this quite well but be advised that he got the shape of the main gear doors totally wrong. They should be much wider and squarer than as drawn . In fact, the best plans (and most accurate) in 1/72 are those drawn by A M Alderson which appeared in the September 1968 issue of Airfix Magazine - these show the main undercarrieage position and shape of the doors rather well. Having fixed the problem of the oleo bays by cementing in the Airfix doors and re-cutting the bay in the correct position we now find that the wheel bays themselves (the centre section of the lower wing removed earlier) do not match up. The bays need to be moved forwards by 5mm to achieve this so a section needs to be removed from the underside of each fuselage half: If modeling the aircraft with the flaps up, all that is needed is to move the wheelbay section forward and the resultant gap aft of it filled in with Plastikard. However, I wanted this model to have the flaps lowered so modification to the flap servodyne fairing would be required because this opens up when the flaps are lowered. Additionally, the servodyne acts through a crank connecting both flaps together; this crank extends outwards from a housing in the fuselage/aft wing root area. Note: The following is applicable to all 125 variants that lack the aft ventral fuel tank, ie Series 1, 1A/1B, 2 (Dominie), 3A/3B but not Series 3A/RA and Series 3B/RA onwards. Firstly cut the flap sevodyne fairing on the wing centre section in half vertically and retain the resultant triangular aft part: The centre lower wing section can now be bonded back into place in the correct position. I used fillets of 30thou Plastikard between the front of the centre section and the forward fuselage to support the joint. The resultant gap aft of the centre section is then filled with a fillet of 10thou Plastikard. You will notice I have yet to cut the flap servodyne fairing in half as discussed previously. You will also notice that, despite extensive fettling, the fit of the starboard wing was poor. I can only assume that this was down to some mould slippage, whether it affects all kits or just this one I don't know - certainly there was some twist' in several of the components of this kit that needed gentle 'persuasion'! Now the aft part of the gap is filled with a 2 1/2 mm wide strip of 40thou Plastikard. The forward edge of this strip should be in line with the aft edge of the upper wing flap hinge shroud: The result is a 'furrow' representing the flap crank housing: Note: If you are modeling the aircraft with the flaps up, or an aircraft with the aft ventral fuel tank, then all that is needed is to fill in the gap aft of the centre section completely with Plasticard and then blend back to shape. Now the area can be made good with filler and the flaps added to the wings. In order to set the correct flap angle (and to set both flaps the same) I made up a 73 degree jig from some scrap cardboard which was taped in place whilst the joints set. In this shot you can just see the modified flap servodyne fairing: The completed flap set up: In this shot you can also see where I have repositioned the wing fence. I did this by cutting a slot in the upper wing surface with a razor saw and sliding in a piece of 10 thou plastikard that had been cut and sanded to shape. You can also see where I have used some plastruct tube to form the jet pipe(with regard to the engine pods, Airfix captured the shape of these quite well but the fit is extremely poor and the intake rings also need a certain amount of slimming to open them out. Care also needs to be taken to hide the vertical joint between the 2 pod halves). 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I love how you have shown me howthe flap servodyne (Posh names for stuff too) works this way I wandered round Cosford's Dominie thinking I WISH I HAD BUILT THIS ONE BACK WHEN... Now with this info I think I might look for another and really have a go ta Edited January 2, 2015 by perdu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) If you are going to build XS709 'M' as she is at Cosford then watch this space because I will be coming on to the post DAU aircraft very soon. Psst: I still have to do the flap linkage and attach it to the servodyne. Edited January 2, 2015 by Ascoteer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Upper and lower airbrakes were then added from 10thou Plastikard. Note that the airbrakes do not open fully perpendicular to the wing surface (they are airbrakes, not spoilers!), but to an angle of around 70 degrees. The flap crank was then fabricated from a strip of 30thou Plastikard. It should have a slight bend in the middle giving it a shallow 'V' shape. This was then drilled to represent the lightening holes of the real thing and cemented into place between the flaps. The top edge of the crank should be in line with the bottom edge of the Plastikard infill in the flap. Note. Not all aircraft have the lightening holes. Later (post-Dau) Dominies had cover plates riveted over them. Now the triangular piece of the flap servodyne that was retained from earlier is cemented in place between the main servodyne housing and the flap crank to represent the actuating arm fairing. Finally a small triangular section of 30thou Plastikard is cemented to the inboard side of the crank in line with the actuator fairing: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 This is an interesting build with lots of information. This is turning into a masterclass to rival Perdu, Fritag and Navy Bird Looking forward to the next instalment Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Work then turned to the flap hinge fairings. The kit parts (Part nos. 52 – 55) can not be used since (aside from them being a tad overscale) they represent the fairings in the flaps UP position. When the flaps are lowered the aft part of the fairing (ie that attached to the flap) folds over the forward part, resulting that the fairing appears shorter and 'stepped'. The Airfix parts were therefore used as templates for the production of new fairings from 10thou Plastikard. These were then angled to abut the flaps, shortened and 'stepped; to represent the real thing: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Having got the pre DAU model to this stage is basically now a case of cleaning up, priming, painting, etc. Before I continue with the post DAU model here is a picture of the internal arrangements of the Dom taken from the Aircrew Manual. Pre DAU: Post DAU: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Ooh, I see you had a chemical closet and a wardrobe, very swish. Did the sextant installation get much use? Seriously though, great work. I grew up in West London and our closest military 'airbase' was RAF Northolt , so I have a soft spot for 125's and their military relations. Fascinated to see the workings of the flaps come together. I wanted to do my Airfix Dominie flaps down, but could not work out what was going on under the centre section. Tried to take some photos at Waddington airshow a couple of years ago when one was displayed flaps down in the static park. Unfortunately the underside of a black Dominie is just a dark shadow and even standing looking at it I couldn't see a thing. I was just aware of some sort of central fairing joining the two wing flaps. Looked almost like a central flap. Anyway, looking forward to you clearing that one up. Great watching pilots modelling their old aircraft, a real labour of love, and they never let anything slip! All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafalbert Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I am delighted you have built "F"; I manged to get a seat on an overseas trainer to Nimes in 2003, and had the pleasure of sitting in the the back of this old girl (whilst watching the trainees sweat!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 If you go to Cosford you can get as close as you like to the opened flaps and take copious photographs Didnt help me any Debs work has shown it up nice-n-easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomoshenko Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Those wings are impressive, makes it look like a proper aircraft. I love it when modellers open up all the flaps and stuff and expose the viscera of the wings. Like the IP too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 These are some shots I took of the flap linkages on G-ARYC (which was the first production HS-125 Series 1) at the Mosquito Museum at Hatfield: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks for the kind words guys. Ooh, I see you had a chemical closet and a wardrobe, very swish. Did the sextant installation get much use? The swines took the Elsan out in the post DAU aircraft. You had to make sure you didn't drink too much coffee on a high level trogex! When I joined the Dominie Sqn, Night Astro was still being taught by 'ANTS' (Air Navigation Training Squadron - ie the Multi Engined Nav training). This tended to entail 2:30 - 3:00 hrs of droning along at 35,000+ ft; the nature of the Dom cabin conditioning system on the Flight Deck meant that on these trips you wore 2 pairs of socks otherwise your feet would freeze. Astro training ceased some time towards the end of1996 since the Transport Force were no longer taking ab-initio Navs and ANTS training turned towards being a Nimrod lead-in course (plenty of low level over the sea). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Ekedahl Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 These are some shots I took of the flap linkages on G-ARYC (which was the first production HS-125 Series 1) at the Mosquito Museum at Hatfield: These pohtos show something that intrigued me when I was working on my Dominie last year (unfortunately now a stalled project). There clearly seems to be a slight gull wing shape to the inner part of the flaps and the rear wing root fairings, a feature completely missing on the kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) While there's a certain 'gull wingedness' to the aft wing root fairing and which extends to just forward of the flap linkage, it does not affect the flaps themselves, nor the fuselage forward of the flap linkage. I would suggest that it's the result of the way the wings on a 125 are attached to the fuselage. Quintessentially the 125 fuselage is a round section tube that sits on top of the wings (they literally bolt to the underside of the fuselage). That way there is no impact upon the integrity of the pressure hull. Furthermore it means there are no wing spars running through the cabin (unlike, say, the Scottish Aviation (Handley Page) Jetstream). While the gull shape isn't as obvious on the Airfix kit as it is on the Matchbox HS125-600, it is there (sort of) and nature of the wing joint (on a flaps up model) means it is relatively easy to reproduce. On my pre DAU model the paucity of this shape is exacerbated by having dropped the flaps, although it is but a moment's work to correct it with some judicious use of a half round file. Edited January 3, 2015 by Ascoteer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSTON Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 That's a strange design of flap linkage. I couldn't understand what you was trying to build, but these photo's now make much sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 That's a strange design of flap linkage. I couldn't understand what you was trying to build, but these photo's now make much sense Me too (ish). But i'm not as bright as Neil I think I need to check.........So that whole lump of a flap linkage dangles in the airflow when the flaps are down? Cor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) There you go Steve: Edited January 4, 2015 by Ascoteer 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) Dont it just It was the humungeous architecture of the setup that drew me to it years ago but in the far off days of "ifitisntinthemagazineyouwillneverseehowitworks" I gave up the idea and withdrew mine (both Airfix and Matchbox) from the privileged masses of the billstacks Now look at it easy peasy Sorry Debs, I still know the truth It isnt Edited January 3, 2015 by perdu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I recall your postings on ATF (at least I think it was you!) - Good to see you back! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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