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iain.. ipms north somerset

revell 1/72 shackelton aew 2

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I hope Revell aren't looking at this thread now RIch, or perhaps I do, if it means they have the opportunity to get it right. :shrug:

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Those are shared from our Facebook page which is public, and only gives rough dimensions and markings. It shows what they could have had if they had been patient and a little more courteous. If they use them as reference, fair enough, I'd expect (at the minimum) from them a decent amount of internet research for images.

There's around 23,000 drawings in our archive dealing with AEW Mk2 alone. 16 tons of drawing material in total.

Regards,

Rich W

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I'll happily let anyone bring any Shack kit to Coventry and place it at the side of a genuine AEW2 (minus radome). If you're really nice I'll even arrange to get the genuine AEW Mk2 drawings out.

Have another drawing. This one is from an AP.

Wow. It's a total mystery as to why Revell were so rude to you. I mean it's not like you're smug or condescending or anything.

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The real tone of internet messages can often be difficult to interpret, and I know from experience my tone often comes off as rather abrupt. I'll try and make it clearer. I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm trying to encourage research.

If you guys would like to come to Coventry and spend a day looking, climbing, and crawling all over a Shackleton as a modelling reference, I'll arrange it through our Trust. Bring a model. Compare it to the real thing. Compare it to the drawings. Make it after the end of March and if there's enough interest, we'll even start a Griffon or four. No barriers. No access restrictions. Total immersion in all things Shack. :)

The Trust won't sanction another commercial project yet, however they are happy to help individual modellers.

As for why Revell were rude I've no idea... they've never spoke to us before or since.

Regards,

Rich

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Wow. It's a total mystery as to why Revell were so rude to you. I mean it's not like you're smug or condescending or anything.

Ease off with the rudeness will you?

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If you guys would like to come to Coventry and spend a day looking, climbing, and crawling all over a Shackleton as a modelling reference, I'll arrange it through our Trust. Bring a model. Compare it to the real thing. Compare it to the drawings. Make it after the end of March and if there's enough interest, we'll even start a Griffon or four. No barriers. No access restrictions. Total immersion in all things Shack. :)

Sounds like an extraordinarily generous offer to me! Maybe a chance for a Britmodeller social...

Last time I saw Shackletons running was in 1986.

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Hmmm, them drawings could come in handy for a 32nd scale vacform kit....

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Sounds like an extraordinarily generous offer to me! Maybe a chance for a Britmodeller social...

Last time I saw Shackletons running was in 1986.

ooo ooo wait til jun - september then I could make it!

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No offence intended but I don't see the point of your comment. You've obviously missed the bit further back where Revell were looking around a full size MR3 Shack to use as a prototype for their new Shack kit, and were rather upset when the it was pointed out to them that the difference was rather more than moving the pair of wheels from the front to the back. Or when they told us that the original manufacturers data was wrong regarding the later style exhausts

I don't doubt they can create a good kit. I don't doubt they can create a value for money kit. What I do doubt is that they can create an accurate kit, within the year especially given how utterly clueless they've been so far.

I'll happily let anyone bring any Shack kit to Coventry and place it at the side of a genuine AEW2 (minus radome). If you're really nice I'll even arrange to get the genuine AEW Mk2 drawings out. LIke this -

10877818_10152887044936544_974815152_n.j

As you can see - with this kind of thing available, judging accuracy isn't just based on opinion.

Kind regards,

Rich W

Shackleton Preservation Trust

No offence taken at all Rich. I certainly did not miss the earlier comment about Revell looking over the MR 3 either. With respect, I thought the whole point of my comment was pretty obvious. I simply felt it was unfair to condemn a kit which has not even appeared on the basis of two earlier specifically named ( and flawed) Revell models.This is precisely what the earlier poster was doing and, I felt there was no basis for such a judgement - especially in view of the quality of the other kits I mentioned. I am perfectly well aware that accuracy is not just based on opinion and I think we both agree that Revell are very capable of producing accurate value for money kits. The earlier poster WAS in my view judging accuracy on an as yet non existent kit based on opinion as opposed to actual information on the real subject

I am making no comment on the accuracy or otherwise of the Revell Shackleton. How can I. How can anyone - we haven't even seen it. More than anyone, you have every right to express doubts. However, until we see the actual item in the flesh we won't know for sure. I at least am prepared to reserve judgement. I do however find it mildly astonishing that they could not tell the difference between an MR3 and, an AEW2 !! :yikes: . For a company of Revell's long experience in the business that is truly shocking. On that basis alone, even I would have doubts if that was what they were basing it on.I simply think we should wait and see.

On a more personal level I was saddened and dismayed that you and your group were treated so disrespectfully. That seems to be the corporate mentality these days. I do wonder if those responsible actually have any real knowledge of their intended products.

Regards

Allan

Edited by Albeback52

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The real tone of internet messages can often be difficult to interpret, and I know from experience my tone often comes off as rather abrupt. I'll try and make it clearer. I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm trying to encourage research.

If you guys would like to come to Coventry and spend a day looking, climbing, and crawling all over a Shackleton as a modelling reference, I'll arrange it through our Trust. Bring a model. Compare it to the real thing. Compare it to the drawings. Make it after the end of March and if there's enough interest, we'll even start a Griffon or four. No barriers. No access restrictions. Total immersion in all things Shack. :)

The Trust won't sanction another commercial project yet, however they are happy to help individual modellers.

As for why Revell were rude I've no idea... they've never spoke to us before or since.

Regards,

Rich

Hello Rich

I would love to be able to crawl over the fine old lady, and even hear the growl of the mighty griffon! Be like a big kid, well still am! Lol.....

What's dates is she free to view? I have been looking at the shack site. Looking into being a friend... I only live just outside Tamworth, so a stones throw to Cov Airport.... So would love to be able to join and help in any small way...... :-)

Regards

Mark

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Or visit South Africa, The SAAF museum at Ysterplaat normally does an engine run up on their MR-3 once a month (I think its the first Saturday of the month)

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Hello Rich

I would love to be able to crawl over the fine old lady, and even hear the growl of the mighty griffon! Be like a big kid, well still am! Lol.....

What's dates is she free to view? I have been looking at the shack site. Looking into being a friend... I only live just outside Tamworth, so a stones throw to Cov Airport.... So would love to be able to join and help in any small way...... :-)

Regards

Mark

Hi Mark,

We won't be running engines up until we've finished winter servicing but you're more than welcome to pop across one Saturday when we're working on the aircraft if you want. We'll next be on site on Sat 10 Jan, from around 10 am onwards.

Kind regards,

Rich

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No offence taken at all Rich. I certainly did not miss the earlier comment about Revell looking over the MR 3 either. With respect, I thought the whole point of my comment was pretty obvious. I simply felt it was unfair to condemn a kit which has not even appeared on the basis of two earlier specifically named ( and flawed) Revell models.This is precisely what the earlier poster was doing and, I felt there was no basis for such a judgement - especially in view of the quality of the other kits I mentioned. I am perfectly well aware that accuracy is not just based on opinion and I think we both agree that Revell are very capable of producing accurate value for money kits. The earlier poster WAS in my view judging accuracy on an as yet non existent kit based on opinion as opposed to actual information on the real subject

I am making no comment on the accuracy or otherwise of the Revell Shackleton. How can I. How can anyone - we haven't even seen it. More than anyone, you have every right to express doubts. However, until we see the actual item in the flesh we won't know for sure. I at least am prepared to reserve judgement. I do however find it mildly astonishing that they could not tell the difference between an MR3 and, an AEW2 !! :yikes: . For a company of Revell's long experience in the business that is truly shocking. On that basis alone, even I would have doubts if that was what they were basing it on.I simply think we should wait and see.

On a more personal level I was saddened and dismayed that you and your group were treated so disrespectfully. That seems to be the corporate mentality these days. I do wonder if those responsible actually have any real knowledge of their intended products.

Regards

Allan

Hi Allan,

Thanks for the well written and well thought out reply.

You raise some fair points, and I hope that Revell do come out with a Shackleton kit that can do justice to its fullsize namesake. You may well be right regarding the people involved, and thinking on from that I can maybe understand the MR3/AEW2 mixup.

Put yourself in their shoes - with next to no reference material, you have an aircraft that is roughly the same shape and size and has the same name as a previous variant. You also have produced at one point a kit that is almost legendary and has been used by modellers almost since its introduction as a base to make an AEW2/MR2...?

Regards,

Rich

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Hi Mark,

We won't be running engines up until we've finished winter servicing but you're more than welcome to pop across one Saturday when we're working on the aircraft if you want. We'll next be on site on Sat 10 Jan, from around 10 am onwards.

Kind regards,

Rich

Hi Rich......

Cheers for the info... Afraid wont be able to make this Saturday coming, due to my work! Damn and blast! But hopefully later dates i will be able to make it... I will look on the the website and e-mail the address to join the friends section.... As would like to get up close and personal to the fine old lady.... :-)

Mark

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.............I simply felt it was unfair to condemn a kit which has not even appeared on the basis of two earlier specifically named ( and flawed) Revell models.

This is precisely what the earlier poster was doing and, I felt there was no basis for such a judgement - especially in view of the quality of the other kits I mentioned. I am perfectly well aware that accuracy is not just based on opinion and I think we both agree that Revell are very capable of producing accurate value for money kits. The earlier poster WAS in my view judging accuracy on an as yet non existent kit based on opinion as opposed to actual information on the real subject

I am making no comment on the accuracy or otherwise of the Revell Shackleton. How can I. How can anyone - we haven't even seen it. More than anyone, you have every right to express doubts. However, until we see the actual item in the flesh we won't know for sure. I at least am prepared to reserve judgement. I do however find it mildly astonishing that they could not tell the difference between an MR3 and, an AEW2 !! :yikes: . For a company of Revell's long experience in the business that is truly shocking. On that basis alone, even I would have doubts if that was what they were basing it on. I simply think we should wait and see.

On a more personal level I was saddened and dismayed that you and your group were treated so disrespectfully. That seems to be the corporate mentality these days. I do wonder if those responsible actually have any real knowledge of their intended products.

Regards

Allan

Evening Allen,

not 'wadding in' as Rich can fight his own corner and apologies for trimming your post (slightly).

The one thing that I have not seen mentioned? is the takeover of RoG by Revell USA (Hobbico).

Where Revell Germany had their own "way of doing things" the general consensus now is that the "bean counters"

in the US will be looking purely at numbers of units, and as such kits like the Ju.88 and He.111 wouldn't get a smell in and possibly neither would the Hawker Hunter (either scale) or the BAe Hawk.

Expect RoG to now concentrate on sure fire money spinners: Me./Bf. 109, Supermarine Spitfire, Focke Wulf FW-190, and NAA P-51 Mustang.

So, as has been said, good that TWO mainstream manufacturers have decided to give us a model of the 'Old Grey Lady', great shame that RoG / Revell US have a little to learn about good manners.

As my now ex father in law was embodiment loan officer at AWA / BAe Bitteswell where, in its last few years of operation, did all the deep servicing work on this Aircraft.......

As Rich has already said, the Trust have the (purchased) plans of the aircraft AND the last twelve individual plans

(only ones in existence) for the AEW 2 and as each MR 2 was an individual conversion, I don't feel it to be too big a leap

to think that the Airfix kit might just come out on top.

My two 'penorth,

Paul

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I realise I've come across a bit over strong as to my opinion on the as yet un produced Revell kit. My opinion and attitude is based on how Revell have brought forward their research in a rude and almost clueless manner as to variants of the Shackleton and their past performance with British 'heavies'. Kits like their B-17 are just brilliant, but the Lanc and Halibag leave a fair bit to be desired. As can probably be ascertained, I will be buying both kits, wether the Revell kit is any good as a whole aircraft or just as AEW bits to cram into the Airfix kit, we don't yet know.

I'm afraid that's the position I'll be sticking with until we see the sprues and / or a built kit

-

WV908

Edited by WV908

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I wonder if Airfix would consider, or have considered, putting an AEW2 sprue into their proposed kit to allow modellers to build either version? Prior to the Valiant PR exercise, Airfix were pretty good at providing multiple options in one box, as opposed to the multiple box option preferred by some other manufacturers.

:whistle:

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I wonder if Airfix would consider, or have considered, putting an AEW2 sprue into their proposed kit to allow modellers to build either version? Prior to the Valiant PR exercise, Airfix were pretty good at providing multiple options in one box, as opposed to the multiple box option preferred by some other manufacturers.

:whistle:

I had rather wondered if another boxing with AEW2 option was intended, though the size of the kit seems like it might preclude that.

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Hi Allan,

Thanks for the well written and well thought out reply.

You raise some fair points, and I hope that Revell do come out with a Shackleton kit that can do justice to its fullsize namesake. You may well be right regarding the people involved, and thinking on from that I can maybe understand the MR3/AEW2 mixup.

Put yourself in their shoes - with next to no reference material, you have an aircraft that is roughly the same shape and size and has the same name as a previous variant. You also have produced at one point a kit that is almost legendary and has been used by modellers almost since its introduction as a base to make an AEW2/MR2...?

Regards,

Rich

:lol: You'll get no argument here!! I don't think even the much maligned Trumpeter would go that far!! It's a shame really because because this is a missed opportunity to produce a brand new MR3 which would have complemented the Airfix kit beautifully. Airfix could then have presumably reissued the MR2 later as an AEW 2? Anyway, we will find out the truth in due course.

Regards

Allan

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Evening Allen,

not 'wadding in' as Rich can fight his own corner and apologies for trimming your post (slightly).

The one thing that I have not seen mentioned? is the takeover of RoG by Revell USA (Hobbico).

Where Revell Germany had their own "way of doing things" the general consensus now is that the "bean counters"

in the US will be looking purely at numbers of units, and as such kits like the Ju.88 and He.111 wouldn't get a smell in and possibly neither would the Hawker Hunter (either scale) or the BAe Hawk.

Expect RoG to now concentrate on sure fire money spinners: Me./Bf. 109, Supermarine Spitfire, Focke Wulf FW-190, and NAA P-51 Mustang.

So, as has been said, good that TWO mainstream manufacturers have decided to give us a model of the 'Old Grey Lady', great shame that RoG / Revell US have a little to learn about good manners.

As my now ex father in law was embodiment loan officer at AWA / BAe Bitteswell where, in its last few years of operation, did all the deep servicing work on this Aircraft.......

As Rich has already said, the Trust have the (purchased) plans of the aircraft AND the last twelve individual plans

(only ones in existence) for the AEW 2 and as each MR 2 was an individual conversion, I don't feel it to be too big a leap

to think that the Airfix kit might just come out on top.

My two 'penorth,

Paul

Hi Paul.

No need to apologise for trimming the post! :lol: . Thank you for taking the time to reply. You raise a very good point. I'd completely overlooked the recent takeover and, what you say kind of follows on from my own comment about the manufacturer knowing little about its product. I find it astonishing to say the least that Revell does not appear to have undertaken even the most basic research here!! Even I with my addled brain knows that an MR3 does NOT an AEW2 make!!. As I said to Rich previously, it really is a shame because Revell COULD have opted for a brand new MR3 instead.......!!!!!. You may very well be right in what you say about the Airfix kit. I personally hope the Revell kit does NOT turn out to be a clunker but, I will not be making any comment on it until it actually appears.

regards

Allan

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Trouble is we should really await on Nuremberg Toy Fair next month to see if they have anything more than the catalogue photograph to show, we know Airfix will have a prototype assembled of theirs although its still a bit early for sprue test shots.

I suspect we won't see anything till a preview on IPMS Germany or similar German modelling forum, and that will give us our first views of the kit along with an idea if its on schedule or not.

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Trouble is we should really await on Nuremberg Toy Fair next month to see if they have anything more than the catalogue photograph to show, we know Airfix will have a prototype assembled of theirs although its still a bit early for sprue test shots.

I suspect we won't see anything till a preview on IPMS Germany or similar German modelling forum, and that will give us our first views of the kit along with an idea if its on schedule or not.

Keep a close eye on a British based Revell forum too :winkgrin:

Andy

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If anyone knows more than Rich W of the Shackleton Preservation Trust step up to the plate. He and his team have worked tirelessly on theirs outside in all weathers with whatever backing they can get. Eventually she will fly. I will wait for his definitive verdict before I buy a kit. If in the meantime you wish to donate some money do it to his 1to1 venture.

http://www.avroshackleton.co.uk/

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The Shackleton comes.

At the toy fair in Nuremberg will be not more than the catalogue picture. The kit is progress, but at the first step at the moment.

modelldoc

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