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iain.. ipms north somerset

revell 1/72 shackelton aew 2

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If news of the Revell Shack had emerged with no announcement from Airfix, I wonder would there have been such a pouring of cold water on the project. Some people are pointing to a couple of Revell kits (in particular the Halifax) where they got it wrong. There are many excellent Revell kits, including of British subjects such as the Hunter and Hawk, and they are usually very good value for money also. They have also produced superb kits (e.g FW200 Condor) of types that are long extinct. I see no reason to predict that a Shack kit from one of the world's leading and longest-established manufacturers will be a dud. Revell could, for example, go to the Pima Museum in Arizona, where WL790 is preserved, or to Manchester (WR960) to inspect complete examples that are still in AEW configuration.

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Think if I was Revell I would withdraw from the battle, tool an accurate, state of the art Vulcan and have the last laugh.

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I think it's been implied that Airfix was 'in' first with Revell trailing behind. Could it be the Revell got word of Airfix's plans and tried to steal a march? Perhaps they wanted theirs out first to get that initial rush of buyers money.

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They have also produced superb kits (e.g FW200 Condor) of types that are long extinct.

Veering off slightly, did you know there is most of an FW200 at the Deutsches Technikmuseum in Berlin? It was bashed up and heavily corroded but they are gradually doing things with it towards a restoration for static display

http://www.sdtb.de/Focke-Wulf-Fw-200-Condor.788.0.html

This is what they aim to end up with:

http://www.klassiker-der-luftfahrt.de/luftfahrtmuseum/restaurierung-der-focke-wulf-fw-200-condor/553992

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Think if I was Revell I would withdraw from the battle, tool an accurate, state of the art Vulcan and have the last laugh.

Hi

No no no no no

A 1:32 whirlwind fighter

Cheers

Jerry

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Andy S is right (again, he's my brother btw and usually is),the answer for Airfix is to put the AEW parts in with the original boxing and 8 Sqn decals and charge an extra fiver.

To the moderators would it be a good idea to merge the Shackleton threads on the forum.

Also WH Smiths in Lincoln had several copies of Classic Aviation Avro Shackleton - The Grey Ladybookzine on 23 December but by this morning they had sold out. It is still available online at £7.99 post free.

All this talk of Shackletons is tempting me to sneak down to the shed and build one of those MR Mk.3's straight out of the box for the hell of it (but my cricked back is killing me) how about it Andrew I could get it to you by monday could you have it done by the 2nd ? LOL

Getting back on threads we should be really grateful to both companies if they do both produce kits and I reckon they will sell lots if the response on various interweb sites is anything to go by.

Rich do you have any engine run dates set for the BTTS Shacklebomber in the New Year?

Cheers

Ian

Edited by Radar

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Hi Ian,

No dates for run ups as yet, we're still working through the servicing. Propellers are nearly done, then its hydraulics, then pneumatics. We'll probably be starting running WR963 up again around March when the weather starts to pick up, but we're on site tomorrow and Jan 10th if anyone wants to drop by.

Regards,

Rich

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Radar (Ian) -

the nose profile on the wikipedia three view is incorrect. Its an image that has been modified from the MR3 side profile, making it deeper than it should be. On the full size aircraft, the fuselage frames were unmodified, with just a small fairing ahead of the bomb bay to put the scanner dome on for the AEW conversion. The radar itself was hung on a scaffold frame from the front weapons mounting points, with a hole cut in the bomb doors for the scanner to poke through. The full length MR2 doors were cut down by a third, and a false bulkhead added to mount hydraulic rams on in order to ensure the rear two thirds of the bomb bay doors remain operational.

Just to add to this, the radomes came from Gannets (or Gannet spares) - I have seen one where the DSG has started to wear off, revealing the Sky underneath. There was a fairing added at the top to convert from 'Gannet' contours to 'Shackleton' ones.

BTW, if anyone wants to do an 8 Squadron one thatw asn't an AEW, they had a couple of MR2s over the years

http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/oldstuff/2007/443shacktim/wl801.htm

Edited by Dave Fleming

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If news of the Revell Shack had emerged with no announcement from Airfix, I wonder would there have been such a pouring of cold water on the project. Some people are pointing to a couple of Revell kits (in particular the Halifax) where they got it wrong. There are many excellent Revell kits, including of British subjects such as the Hunter and Hawk, and they are usually very good value for money also. They have also produced superb kits (e.g FW200 Condor) of types that are long extinct. I see no reason to predict that a Shack kit from one of the world's leading and longest-established manufacturers will be a dud. Revell could, for example, go to the Pima Museum in Arizona, where WL790 is preserved, or to Manchester (WR960) to inspect complete examples that are still in AEW configuration.

Wholeheartedly agree with all of your sentiments here, Irish 251. It's quite amazing how quickly modellers can 'turn' and lose corporate memory on the quality models that each and every model company (generally speaking) churn out for our benefit. All (even Airfix) have been guilty of producing duds in the past just as they are all 'guilty' of producing high quality products too. As you quite rightly point out, The Revell Hunters and Tornados are without equal elsewhere and I have little doubt that they will do a good job with their own Shackleton although I personally lament (as I have said previously in this thread) the lost opportunity for them to concentrate their efforts on another worthy cause, whether it was a new mould HP Hampden, Catalina, C-130 Hercules or Vulcan !.

Notwithstanding their alleged 'bad behaviour' with the Shackleton Trust (we have yet to hear the other side of the story) which would be considered highly regrettable, there is nothing to stop Revell accessing one of the other airframes that are still dotted around the country and, indeed, further afield. I'm very wary of the assertion that the Shackleton Trust own ALL of the intellectual property rights to the Shackleton. From my own experience on copyright issues in the past, this is a veritable minefield for one to navigate (again, as others have alluded to in this thread) and it is doubtful that any claim of infringement would be upheld - besides which, I would very much hope that the Shackleton Trust focused all of their efforts and resources (both human and financial) on their primary aim - their truly admirable desire to fully restore one of these magnificent descendants of the Avro Lancaster to its former glory - rather than get embroiled in an unseemly and costly 'battle' with a kit manufacturer.

I say 'Good Luck' to both manufacturers although I return to my original statement in this thread (and others) and really would have preferred them to collaborate and avoid the unnecessary (and ultimately) costly duplication of effort on what would generally speaking (certainly outside the UK and South Africa) be considered rather esoteric kit subjects (as delighted as I am to see them).

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Going slightly off subject, how easy is it to backdate the new Airfix/Revell Shackletons to the early Mk.1(?) version, with the stubby nose...

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Wholeheartedly agree with all of your sentiments here, Irish 251. It's quite amazing how quickly modellers can 'turn' and lose corporate memory on the quality models that each and every model company (generally speaking) churn out for our benefit.

Manufacturers are only as good as their last mistake! ;)

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Going slightly off subject, how easy is it to backdate the new Airfix/Revell Shackletons to the early Mk.1(?) version, with the stubby nose...

Mind you, I don't know right off hand about such bits as the windows and doors, but the main differences were fore and aft - the nose (with radome), and the blunt tail of the MR.1. Everything in between was (nearly) identical as far as I can tell, other than the fixed tail wheel on the MR.1. A plug, a la Freightdog's sets for the Revell Halifax would set this right. You would need a new nose and clear nose part, and a clear part for the radome (with the radar), and a rather simple blunt-ended replacement for the MR.2's tail cone. And you would need some sort of blanking plate or plug for the MR.2's retractable under fuselage radome. It would certainly be easier than converting a Lancaster into a Lincoln.

Regards,

Jason

Edited by Learstang

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Going slightly off subject, how easy is it to backdate the new Airfix/Revell Shackletons to the early Mk.1(?) version, with the stubby nose...

The main external differences between MR1 and MR2 were:

- new nose

- extended, streamline rear fuselage to replace turret/blunt fairing of MR1

- radome repositioned to underfuselage and made retractable

- tailwheel made retractable and twin wheels rather than single external of MR1

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An Mr.1 conversion sounds just up Alley Cat's alley! :D

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You read that, Colin! Get to work! Put me in for one set (for now; I'll get to the Shackleton T.4 some other day).

Regards,

Jason

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Notwithstanding their alleged 'bad behaviour' with the Shackleton Trust (we have yet to hear the other side of the story) which would be considered highly regrettable, there is nothing to stop Revell accessing one of the other airframes that are still dotted around the country and, indeed, further afield. I'm very wary of the assertion that the Shackleton Trust own ALL of the intellectual property rights to the Shackleton. From my own experience on copyright issues in the past, this is a veritable minefield for one to navigate (again, as others have alluded to in this thread) and it is doubtful that any claim of infringement would be upheld - besides which, I would very much hope that the Shackleton Trust focused all of their efforts and resources (both human and financial) on their primary aim - their truly admirable desire to fully restore one of these magnificent descendants of the Avro Lancaster to its former glory - rather than get embroiled in an unseemly and costly 'battle' with a kit manufacturer.

True, but as I've tried to point out - there's only really one unmolested example of the AEW2 left, out of the six left worldwide. You don't have much choice, and that leaves any model created open to error, unless you concentrate on the best example of a service aircraft. Ours has been modified since it left service, as have the others. WR960 at Manchester was delivered straight from 8 Sqn to the museum.

We're not claiming we own all the intellectual property rights. Various parts belong to Dowty, DeHavilland, Martin Baker, Dunlop, Rolls Royce, and the MOD. We own the design of the aircraft - and that is all. British Aerospace were pretty sure of what they owned, and they sold things lock stock and barrel to us; and we're pretty sure their lawyers were on top of things when they drew the contract up.

We're not conceited enough to think we could stop Revell, or make them cease production by way of a long drawn out court battle, and its too big a distraction to our work on the real aircraft. However, we don't have to be happy about things, and we will point it out publicly if they get it wrong.

Kind regards,

Rich

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An Mr.1 conversion sounds just up Alley Cat's alley! :D

Did they not stop trading recently? I thought I saw post to that effect not to long ago.

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Did they not stop trading recently? I thought I saw post to that effect not to long ago.

Have a look at the announcement on the website http://www.a2zeemodels.co.uk/

It all sounds pretty promising.

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However, we don't have to be happy about things, and we will point it out publicly if they get it wrong.

Many of us hope you will Rich, but also that there's not too much to actually point out...(at least not as much as a certain Halifax!!) :)

keith

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I can back Rich up on the info regarding WR960 - all that has been done to the structure of the aircraft since it left service was disconnection of the control surfaces from the cockpit and cutting of the wire looms for proper sectional transport. Everything is still there and the only additions are non-slip mats in the walkways and new wiring to get the lights going. The only parts that have been removed are the radar and one of the monitors, which are displayed adjacent to the aircraft. The wiring is clipped onto / runs alongside the original. As a side note, 960 was withdrawn before the final re-spar program, so is further behind on the mod list than 963 and 790 were when retired.

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This is turning into quite a debate... who could have predicted this a week ago?

In the spirit of Christmas, can I say I hope we'll have two perfect kits of this plane available on the shelves by next Christmas. Good luck to both Revell and Airfix!

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All we've seen so far is a catalogue photo, Hannants have got things like the C54 and Victor re-pop up already, but until we have an official announcement, there's no idea as to when the Revell shack will arrive

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Hi

recent thread ( oct 2014 ) showing a photo of the shacks at paphos

http://www.airfieldinformationexchange.org/community/showthread.php?13888-CYPRUS-Paphos&s=23971fbe2dc1aea6115aae9d8ddab7f7

cheers

jerryime we

That is such a sad sight to see... two grand and fine ladies decaying...... Just wish i could win the euro lotto, i know what i would spend the dosh on! Getting 4 growling griffons back in the air again! Its about time we put some english pounds back into our proud engineering past........ thats just my thoughts on the matter!

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