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Fiat G50bis (late change!), Croatian Air Force


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Cliff, part of me wants to fritter away a load of time finding out the significance of each, and deciding based on that. But I might just toss a coin! :)

Hi Mitch

I have a friend at my local model club who knows about these things (his name is Zoran Rados), and he has confirmed what Marin said earlier in this thread.

The fort insignia is well understood. It is the emblem of the 1st Airbase (it's a drawing of Sisak fort).

The goat/devil remains a total mystery to all scholars and is likely to be so for ever.........

Cliff

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Cliff, I'd identified Sisak fort (site of the victory of the Croats and their allies against the Ottoman Turks), but that devil thing is a real poser! I'm minded to go with Sisak.

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Just one/two warning regarding AML colour/marking sheet:

- There is no checkerboard marking on left upper wing section.

Military aircraft marking rules proscribed by ZNDH (NDH) in 1941. (that were on power until 1945.) - rules are cited in Frka, Novak, Pogacic book.

- Existing photos of 3504 depict it with overpainted yellow tactical markings (yellow surfaces - back fuselage, uderwing tips).

In summer of 1944. Luftwaffe command brought order to repaint yellow tactical markings on all aircraft on this area (Croatia) including aircraft under ZNDH command.

There is no evidence if this cowling symbol (devil/goat) and yellow tactical markings coexisted (as depicted in AML sheet) before above mentioned order.

And just one off topic regarding Macchi 202: This is photo from old Croatian newspaper in WWII time that depicts one of that "Croatian" Macchi's and where actual Luftwaffe markings are visible:

http://postimg.cc/image/3ltdib5th/

So as You can see those were Luftwaffe aircraft with Croat volunteer pilots.

Edited by Marin
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Marin, thanks very much! I had more or less decided to go with 3505, with the Sisak fort marking. I had suspected about the left upper wing shields: I've got a book on the Croatian Air Force and I had picked something up about it, and it chimes with the previous practice of the RYAF. Can you confirm 3505 didn't have one?

Cheers for the photo of the Macchi - I've still got one to built, so a punt at that one might happen eventually anyway!

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Look what the postie brought me this morning!

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Inside it's very nice. Here's a view of the main sprue, with the two sets of fuselage halves. One set is for the standard G.50, the other the G.50bis that will be my build

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There's a little bit of flash, here and there, but the castings are lovely and the surface detail is pin-sharp.

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Here's the other sprue, with the details. The cylinder blocks are split vertically. I can see how this might make it easier to deal with than cleaning up a mould seam on every single cylinder head, but I'll wait and see.

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You get two blocks of resin details: guns, seat, control column etc, plus a PE fret.The decals give two Italian options and two Croat options: the one with the goat/devil head and the three-cornered fort!

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The assembly instructions, on the other hand, look the plans for a Chuckle Brothers script. Oh dear oh dear oh dear...

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Ready to go!

Hi!

This kit looks very nice in parts. Unfortunately either me as a ham-fisted modeller or the kit itself has caused a lot of trouble for me. Anyway I have been building this kit on and off already quite a long time.

Every part needs careful trimming and even then the fit is not stellar. For example (IIRC) left wing underside need to be filed from inside quite a lot, the fuselage upper decking doesn't fit very well I cut it into two parts, gun bulges are different length, Naca-ring needs lots of adjusting etc. Been there... I have thinking to replace engine with some other part. Maybe Revell Saetta?

I think that dimensions and shapes are good except kink on the wing upper surface which extends too long to the outer wing. Difficult to correct if one cares. Been there...

I would suggest to reserve a new blade to the hobby knife, good set of files, putty and a stock of sand paper and check twice and fit all and fix when needed attitude to everyone commissioning to built this kit. It will need time, some sweat and if you are unlucky also a drop of blood (been there...) but the end result would look great Fiat G.50. All this is hidden in the box.

Good luck for your build! I'll follow it with great interest.

Cheers,

AaCee

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Hi!

This kit looks very nice in parts. Unfortunately either me as a ham-fisted modeller or the kit itself has caused a lot of trouble for me. Anyway I have been building this kit on and off already quite a long time.

Every part needs careful trimming and even then the fit is not stellar. For example (IIRC) left wing underside need to be filed from inside quite a lot, the fuselage upper decking doesn't fit very well I cut it into two parts, gun bulges are different length, Naca-ring needs lots of adjusting etc. Been there... I have thinking to replace engine with some other part. Maybe Revell Saetta?

I would suggest using the engine from the Italeri CR.42, has some very nicely moulded parts, much better than the engine in the revell kit.

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Hi!

This kit looks very nice in parts. Unfortunately either me as a ham-fisted modeller or the kit itself has caused a lot of trouble for me. Anyway I have been building this kit on and off already quite a long time.

Every part needs careful trimming and even then the fit is not stellar. For example (IIRC) left wing underside need to be filed from inside quite a lot, the fuselage upper decking doesn't fit very well I cut it into two parts, gun bulges are different length, Naca-ring needs lots of adjusting etc. Been there... I have thinking to replace engine with some other part. Maybe Revell Saetta?

I think that dimensions and shapes are good except kink on the wing upper surface which extends too long to the outer wing. Difficult to correct if one cares. Been there...

I would suggest to reserve a new blade to the hobby knife, good set of files, putty and a stock of sand paper and check twice and fit all and fix when needed attitude to everyone commissioning to built this kit. It will need time, some sweat and if you are unlucky also a drop of blood (been there...) but the end result would look great Fiat G.50. All this is hidden in the box.

Good luck for your build! I'll follow it with great interest.

Cheers,

AaCee

You can't frighten me, I've built vacforms! :lol:

Thanks for the heads up. At the end of the day, it's a short-run kit and it's gonna have limitations! I've got used to bad fit in the last few builds: the Macchi C200, Fury and the Italeri C202 all fit miserably, and I've (just about) beaten them. ;)

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I would suggest using the engine from the Italeri CR.42, has some very nicely moulded parts, much better than the engine in the revell kit.

Thank u, Giorgio!

OK, I'll take a look of it! I didn't remember this one, as it is out of my comfort zone and I have the Macchi engine in the scrap box.

You can't frighten me, I've built vacforms! :lol:

Thanks for the heads up. At the end of the day, it's a short-run kit and it's gonna have limitations! I've got used to bad fit in the last few builds: the Macchi C200, Fury and the Italeri C202 all fit miserably, and I've (just about) beaten them. ;)

Hi Mitch,

At least I tried... ;) Well, I just wanted to share some experiences pointing out possible problems. Maybe I get also mine continued some day!

And you certainly have right attitude!

Cheers,

AaCee

PS. And great New modelling Year 2015 for everyone!

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We're cutting and gluing here!

Putting the wings together is heavy work, but not difficult. Chop off the vast ejector towers and grind down the roof area with a coarse sanding drum on the Dremel.

g50_8_zps71699264.jpg

Once this is done, the wings go together fine. I sharpened up the trailing edges a little, and dabbed a touch of filler in the leading edge and out toward the wingtips. The latter seems unavoidable, at least by me, but I managed to hack a divot out of the leading edge, which ought to be something I could manage to miss!

g50_9_zps68e4a9ab.jpg

The wheel wells are quite plain, but the only photo I have shows them as being quite plain. I can only assume these are some sort of liner (whether canvas, plywood or sheet metal) and the complex structure is hidden under these.

g50_10_zps4d73786a.jpg

Putting the cockpit together was simple: it's the first time I've worked with PE parts, and it was painless. There's a couple more PE parts to go on: cocking handles for the machine guns, to add to the instrument panel. The seat, consoles and levers are resin, and quite lovely. The IP's themselves are injection parts. They are quite nice: not as nice as the resin bits, but good enough. I've drilled some pilot holes near the tail so I can support the elevator butt joints with some wire. I think I'll put the elevators one before I join the fuselage halves.

g50_11_zpse49b8447.jpg

So, from the very nice, to the less so. The wheels come in two halves, but they're quick to glue up and clean up. The engine is rather ropey. Each set of cylinders is split vertically, so there's a ton of fettling and cleaning up to do, but some time, effort and stretched sprue will cure it. Not that a resin engine wouldn't have been nice...

g50_12_zps72623b48.jpg

The u/c doors are pretty crude, but will serve as patterns for 5 thou replacements. I've got all the paints mixed, too, so as soon as the garage warms up I'll start airbrushing!

Edited by Mitch K
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I sprayed the appropriate areas with the grey I mixed for the interior colours, then painted the details with Vallejo acrylics and hairy stick. I gave everything a wash of Payne's grey/sepia ink, then highlighted with lighter shades or drybrushed as seemed best. The instrument panel was painted Vallejo German grey, drybrushed, then the dials put in with indian ink. I've fitted location pins on the elevators: these are short bits of wire brush bristles, fixed with CA. Next step will be to fit the rear bulkhead and then close up the fuselage!

g50_13_zps44f7cbe1.jpg

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Mitch, I tried to post a picture of the wheel wells of the real thing but for some reason didn't succeed... in any case the kit represents them pretty well, I wouldn't bother with any addition.

Have you painted the cockpit in grey or light grey-green ? I know that it's likely that the G.50 used a grey cockpit instead of the commonly seen green...

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Mitch, I tried to post a picture of the wheel wells of the real thing but for some reason didn't succeed... in any case the kit represents them pretty well, I wouldn't bother with any addition.

Have you painted the cockpit in grey or light grey-green ? I know that it's likely that the G.50 used a grey cockpit instead of the commonly seen green...

Giorgio, AML quotes grey for cockpit and wheel wells.The reference I have gives something like Methuen 22D2. The cockpit is darker now due to the wash!

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Buttoning up the fuselage went off without undue incident. There are no locating pins, so a slow and steady was the order of the day. Needed just a touch of filler along the joints, but nothing unusual.

g50_14_zps4794ed29.jpg

The upper decking was a nightmare. Aacee26 predicted this and he was absolutely spot-on. I ground out some bits, packed out others with 5 thou shims and I finally got it to the point where it was even enough and rigid enough to pack it with filler.

g50_15_zpsc075c389.jpg

And pack it I did! I surrounded the joints with tape before loading the filler in.

g50_16_zpsdda3f2c6.jpg

With the tape off, it doesn't look quite as bad. Quite.

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I'll probably re-tape before I do the rough sanding to help preserve the surface. I've also been working on the wing to fuselage joint. This was more like agricultural construction than precision modelling, but hopefully the result won't be visible!

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Always good when the fuselage comes together.

Hopefully all this fettling will give you even greater 'job satisfaction' when it turns out looking great :winkgrin:

Cliff

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Sanding on the fuselage seems to have gone OK so I turned my attention to the engine. I found some pictures to work from, and some sprue, wire and microstrip gave me ignition harness, oil lines, bits and pieces of details and some of the lumps and bumps on the crankcase. Once painted up and hidden inside the cowling, I reckon it will be OK.

g50_18_zps26e3776f.jpg

g50_19_zps2778df13.jpg

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Hi Mitch

Your Fiat is coming together really well :)

I went to a meeting of my local model club last night and met up again with my Croatian friend Zoran. Conversation of course turned to your Fiat and in particular the 'devil-goat' emblem! (Sorry, I know you are going for the Sisak Fort option).

Zoran has a theory that the 'devil-goat' is the pilot's personal emblem and that it is linked to the tradition of Zvoncari (translates as 'bell-men'), whereby men wear frightening animal heads and perform rituals to frighten off evil spirits. The tradition of Zvoncari continues to this day (being recognised by the UN as being of significant heritage) and forms a major part of the annual Rijeka Carnival in Croatia.

Zoran has sent me this link and if you look at the last photograph in particular, you can see why he is making a connection.....

Fascinating stuff I think :)

Cheers

Cliff

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The wing to fuselage joint went roughly as well as I expected. With a strong emphasis on rough!

g50_21_zps47319f66.jpg

I'll sort the trailing edge separately.

g50_20_zpsfcb1ebcd.jpg

There's a slight issue with the fit on one trailing under on the underside: I'll wait and sort this once the seam is done. I think it will respond to being packed with CA and gronked down into place with a vice or g-clamp.

On the bright side, I've sorted the undercarriage doors. The kit ones are the grey bits, which scale out to roughly four inches thick, so I replaced them with laminated five thou variants.

g50_22_zps365d16ba.jpg

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Well, all the major assembly is done, now the stabilisers and tail are on. Just a bit of sanding to do around the root of the tail, and then a last scrub and scrape before some primer goes on.

g50_23_zps8c8c9a1f.jpg

Here's the finished engine, ready to fit onto the mount pillar. The cowling then slides over this and hopefully, bob's my uncle... :pray:

The assembly of the propellor went off more easily and more effectively than I thought. Primed up and ready to go, this can be slotted on at thelast moment. The cowling needed quite a lot of reaming out internally in order for the engine to fit without undue brute force. I fined down the cooling flaps further, and deepened the joins. U/C doors are here again too, this time with some interior paint on.

g50_24_zpsd27041c1.jpg

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