treker_ed Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Okay - due to asthma, I now have to be a bit more cautious about using aerosol primers (ideally a paint both, but cost and lack of space means that I am currently unable to do so). So fellow BMers, what would you recommend for acrylic primers that can be used through an airbrush (I will be using a face mask to reduce the inhalation of particles). I tend to use Tamiya (thinned using their own thinner), Revell Aqua, and Humbrol acrylic paints - and now and again xtracrylix. I appreciate that I could decant, but would prefer not to (partly due to lack of suitable containers at this point in time to store the decanted liquid). Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick32 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Games Worksop Citadel black primer is one i've been using lately, seems to work very well and its not smelly at all. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shood23 Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 I too have asthma and use zero paints primer and of course with a face mask, personally for me i think that as long as the mask you use is a good quality one then it shouldn't effect your primer choice also without trying to sound like a doctor but as it says on all the tins just make sure where ever you paint the ventilation is good Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 I've started using Vallejo acrylic primers (Lt Ghost grey and black so far) based on the recommendation of a fellow Britmodeller, and I like them very much. They say that they don't need thinning, but I've found that I like the way they spray if thinned just a little with distilled water. I also recommend a cartridge type respirator - as a fellow asthma sufferer, I can say that I feel almost bulletproof when wearing one. It seems like nothing is reaching your lungs but air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S5 modeller Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 I use alclad primer, the grey goes on really well, it is pre thinned for the airbrush, it leaves a nice flat surface and dries really quick. Mind you, it whiffs a bit, but if you are using a good mask then you will be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev67 Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Vallejo primers are good and if mixed with johnsons Klear or sprayed over the Vallejo afterwards will enable you to sand it back, as I know they tend to create a step rather than feathered if not allowed to dry properly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiserguy Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Hi Trekker, I agree with Kev67, my favourite primers are the Vallejo polyurethane acrylic range; I use grey and white. They airbrush straight from the bottle or with a little Vallejo or Ultimate thinners added, have no smell, and clean up with water and airbrush clean. In addition, they are self-levelling and durable when dry. The latter poses a bit of a problem because I have found they are difficult to sand and feather. However, Kev's idea of adding Klear or spraying Klear over them when dried are a good ones - I think Phil Flory has demonstrated this on his website and videos. I add Klear to Vallejo Modelcolor to make it more durable, I hadn't thought of adding it to their primers to make them more sandable. It's worth a try, I doubt Kev would have posed as he did had he not tried this himself. Best Wishes, Will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuttle Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I have tried and tried using the Vallejo primers through my airbrush, but I find it just clogs up each time. I can't seem to get it right. Good to hear that some are using it straight from the bottle! Might have to keep persevering with it as I do like the Vallejo paints. Tuttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveO Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I make my own primer from a 50/50 mix of pale grey Artists Acrylic (available from craft shops for around £1,20 for two ounces) usually sold under the 'Artiste' brand and Pledge floor wax (Klear). Mix it in a plastic bottle with a small clean pebble inside to aid mixing. Pour straight into the airbrush or apply with one of those quaint old fashioned brushes. It makes a pleasant smelling water based primer with great coverage and no solvents. My Wife has Asthma so I try to be careful with thinners. It sounds an unlikely primer but I promise it works very well and gives a thin coat that doesn't hide detail. The Klear ensures it flows very well and dries to a very hard finish. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caszerino Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) I'll second Vallejo primers. They come in large, reasonably priced squeeze bottles with dropper tips and I like their coverage. As already mentioned, however, they need 48 hours to cure and bond with the plastic (or they can be coated with Klear, but I've never done that). I still think Tamiya rattle can primer is fantastic, but I understand that's not an option for you. I use a 3M paper mask even when spraying acrylics in my spray booth, but I'm considering getting a cartridge filter mask. I don't have asthma, but I don't like to breathe in all sorts of rubbish (says a guy who's still battling with giving up smoking ). Edited January 25, 2015 by caszerino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acting_strange Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I make my own primer from a 50/50 mix of pale grey Artists Acrylic (available from craft shops for around £1,20 for two ounces) usually sold under the 'Artiste' brand and Pledge floor wax (Klear). Mix it in a plastic bottle with a small clean pebble inside to aid mixing. Pour straight into the airbrush or apply with one of those quaint old fashioned brushes. It makes a pleasant smelling water based primer with great coverage and no solvents. My Wife has Asthma so I try to be careful with thinners. It sounds an unlikely primer but I promise it works very well and gives a thin coat that doesn't hide detail. The Klear ensures it flows very well and dries to a very hard finish. I've just tried this today and it seems to be fab....easy to mix and went straight on with no trouble...I might try it with other colours on my Mayflower as she is mostly matt ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caszerino Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Oh wow, I just noticed the cheap acrylic / Klear mix primer! Definitely need to try this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I want to try it to this too. Thanks for the tip Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acting_strange Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Just to keep this up to date....Klear is no longer sold under that name it is rebranded as Pledge Multi floor wax...and the Artiste colours are made by Docraft and sold by most craft outlets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caszerino Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) I mixed up a small bottle last night and it was way, way too thin with a 50/50 mix. I only tested it with a brush but it had no coverage whatsoever. I'm going to transfer it to a larger (empty glass X-20A) bottle, add about 50% more primer, and then try that through the airbrush today. I think this method definitely has potential but 50/50 didn't do it for me at all. **EDIT: I just realized why I had a problem here. DaveO was mixing "craft shop" acrylic, which is going to be very, very thick compared to Vallejo, with the Klear at 50/50. Completely my fault here. I squirted a bunch more Vallejo primer into the larger bottle and it has definitely shaped up to "primer consistency". I may be taking my life in my own hands here, but I intend to prime my P-40 with this very mix later today and I think it'll be pretty good. The Klear (previously Future here, now Pledge) content should harden it up in a couple hours and we'll find out when I lay a sanding stick against it. Edited February 2, 2015 by caszerino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveO Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Hi, yes the craft shop acrylic is quite thick. I've used Vallejo primer in the past but found my .2mm airbrush didn't like it much. I prime at low pressure and proceed slowly instead of trying to cover large areas in one go as if it were a rattle can. The Klear (Pledge), I can't get out of the habit, makes for a very hard surface. It can be handled as soon as it's dry and is rock hard 24hrs later. I use this method as a cheap(ish) way of having various colour primers to hand. I've had problems spraying the little Humbrol pots in starter kits they seem to clog the tip very quickly. Pledge (Klear), got it that time, used as a thinner with a little flow enhancer makes this paint work well. I always airbrush with very thin paint and build layers up rather than going for thick coverage, I feel a bit more in control. Just finishing a 1/48 Hobby Boss Me262B-1a with all paints thinned in this way. Edited February 6, 2015 by DaveO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveO Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Just to keep this up to date....Klear is no longer sold under that name it is rebranded as Pledge Multi floor wax...and the Artiste colours are made by Docraft and sold by most craft outlets... Yes, I can't break the Klear habit. The craft paint is probably made by one company - it appears in identical bottles and colours under lots of brand names. It's all good stuff to have in stock. Straight from the bottle it's really good for painting cockpit details. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caszerino Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) I don't think it really matters what we actually call it, since we all know which floor wax product we're talking about, whether it's Klear or Future (here in the US) or now Pledge Multi-Surface Floor Finish. But I did end up adding rather a lot more Vallejo grey primer to the mixture in an empty 1.5oz bottle and it works beautifully now. You can tell immediately (after it's dry) how much harder it is with the Klear in it. It's still very thin but goes on nicely with a brush. I haven't tried spraying it yet but it's what I'll be using through my Iwata Neo (.35mm, I believe) to prime the P-40B I'm working on. That should be happening tomorrow. I'm too hungover today to attempt airbrushing, I think. Edited February 7, 2015 by caszerino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Kelley Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Get yourself a good 3M cartridge respirator. I use a 7026 with 7179 cartridges in it- these filter out vapours. Works a treat- I frequently spray Mr Color in my small room whilst wearing it, although I do have an industrial extractor fan fitted to the wall, which I always have on when spraying. You will not smell the paint through this mask- I think I paid about £30 for mine. I use Vallejo primers, but they must be allowed to cure properly or forget trying to mask over them- it will peel off with the tape afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilson Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I use Vallejo primers, but they must be allowed to cure properly or forget trying to mask over them- it will peel off with the tape afterwards. I leave mine for 48 hours, any less than that and they are a bit iffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveO Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I love Vallejo paints but didn't like the primer after giving it a fair go, I ended up having to clean the airbrush far too often. One of these posts also reminded me about the difficulty getting a fine feather when sanding. I'd forgotten that, I think it may be the polyurethane component that creates that effect. I do like a primer to set hard and be very thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caszerino Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Yeah, I've actually had to give up on the mix using Vallejo. Even mixed with floor wax, it peels when you try to sand it. I gave it my best shot, and I'll try mixing Klear with other gray acrylics until I get the right mix, but it's just not working with Vallejo primer. Such is life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treker_ed Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Thanks to all the contributors - I haven't quite got a final answer to the original question but has provided a good hint at which direction I need to be heading in. Can the mods please close the thread as there seems to be a fair amount of thread creep heading in other directions. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan R Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) I have been making my own primer for the last year or two, and found this formula to work well. I always used Halfords grey or white primers prior to that, but found that even they were getting a bit pricey! For car models, I tend to use a white primer: The base is believe it or not, a major DIY store water based satin brilliant white wood/metal paint. 750 ml for about £10. BTW 750 ml goes an awfully long way. The mix is: 15 ml of white satin paint 5 ml of Klear (or Future or Pledge, whatever it's called these days) 18 ml of distilled water A drop of washing up liquid A dollop (about the size of a garden pea) of Acrylic retarder. I mix this thoroughly using a mixer bar I made myself with my old Como drill. The white paint is quite thick, hence the near 50/50 mix of paint and Klear/Water. Before I added the washing up liquid, I found that the paint would not adhere to the plastic, no matter how well I washed it. It would always "clump" into droplets on the model. The washing up liquid completely cured the problem. I added the retarder since that seems to allow the Klear to flow better, leaving a non-orange peel finish. For aircraft, I usually use a grey primer. I have found that by adding 0.75 ml of Tamiya Matt Black to the mix gives a dense enough grey primer. Other colours can be made, I have made up yellow, and I imagine that replacing the yellow with red/brown would produce a fair "red-oxide" primer. I have found that the primer is durable after about 24 hours Before that you do need to be a bit careful. I always keep a 300 ml bottle of the grey primer, as I am always priming, but never finishing models... O by the way, I am asthmatic as well, and the usual warnings apply. The primer may well be odourless, but wearing a respirator/mask is advisable. Edited February 12, 2015 by Alan R 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveO Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) That's an interesting recipe! Some washing up liquids have nice for hands oils added though, cheap stuff doesn't. All in all I can't believe every model paint company has it's own pigment grinding division. Most will buy pigments in set pantone colours and mix them according to reference charts. It's one of the anti-profiteering reasons why I like to experiment and mix my own paints, try different non modelling products etc. Modelling suppliers make huge profits from things like liquid cements etc. that are basically MEK plastic solvent (about £7.00 a litre). My local pound shop had 20ml bottles of Cyano, thin or Gel for, you've guessed it £1.00 a bottle. For airbrush acrylic cleaning I make Ammonia flush, 500ml of household ammonia mixed into a half gallon bottle of winter windscreen wash is a perfect cleaner between colours that costs me around £2.50 every other year. One of my favourites is the bag full of chrome plated brass tube salvaged from broken radio aerials or my extremely hi tech pound shop battery fan converted to a paint stirrer... I could go on. Edited February 12, 2015 by DaveO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts