Hercules-engined Halifax

[Admiral Puff]

Has anyone heard / read in the tea leaves / otherwise come into possession of information about a radial-engine conversion for the Revell 1:72 Halifax? The recent release of Dutch Decals' "Dutchies in the RAF" sheet, which includes a couple of interesting Herc-engined Halifax schemes, has piqued my interest, but thus far I've not unearthed anything to suggest that such a conversion either exists or is pending. The Airfix kit is just too long in the tooth to be given serious consideration, although an alternative might be to use it to provide the radial bits for a conversion of the Revell offering.

[Graham Boak]

The Revell rep at Telford, at the time of the original publicity, hinted to me that the tools had been prepared with a Hercules variant in mind, and if you check the part numbers you will find large gaps. There are stories that Revell were heavily disillusioned with the tooling they received but it is not clear to me how much these are just bar stories. There is clear evidence that more was intended than eventually appeared - look inside the wings for the wing bomb bays, for example. However, although the Revell Halifax has a superior fuselage to the Airfix, the wing/nacelle fairings are all wrong (as indeed is the aileron on ALL Halifax kits) so a new wing tooling would really be required. If you are prepared to modify the ailerons yourself, and perhaps raid an Airfix Lancaster Mk.II for engines, then an acceptable Mk.III can be made by combining a Revell fuselage and an Airfix wing.

The Airfix cowlings can be significantly improved in appearance by reducing the size of the opening. I've curled a piece of microstrip around a slightly larger dowel, then squeezed it into the cowling and let it spring out to hold shape. Just a little trimming to tidy it up is then needed.

EDIT: I suspect aftermarket producers are delaying any possible products in case Revell do produce this option. It would take a large investment, given the other faults in the kit as well, which could end up as a large loss. Perhaps something - replacement engines/cowlings at least - will appear after the Airfix re-release of their old kit.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Graham Boak

[tonyot]

I still think that Airfix will surprise us at Christmas with the announcement of a brand new Hercules engined Halifax, maybe with a Merlin engined one to follow! We can but hope eh?

Cheers

Tony

[speedbird]

Airfix wings coupled with revell fuelage work perfectly. Its also possible to use the revel undercarage with a bit af imagination and witchcraft..herculese engines and cowls can come from the airfix lanc..I know this cos I've done it and it's not hard at all although I used the engines from a well know and difficult to get hold of lanc mkII conversion set.

[Aeronut]

The instructions for the Revell Halifax showed the option for the rounded wingtips (even though they're not included in the kit) that were a feature of some of the Hercules engined varients. I always thought Revell had a Hercules engined varient on the chocks.

[Graham Boak]

Agreed, see above. However, the excessively wide nacelles might imply excessively large engines, as with the Merlins, and the fairings over the upper wing are different, so I'm not building up too many hopes. At least the tailwheel would be right for a Hercules-powered aircraft.

[SeaVenom]

Surely Revell will do more variants of the Halifax? It wouldn't make sense for them not to but they need to sort out the inaccuracies of the existing kit as it would be a nice kit otherwise. It's time they did it.

[Graham Boak]

I fear you may be underestimating all that is wrong with the Revell kit. Sorting out the inaccuracies would mean an almost entirely new tooling. As said above, the fuselage is fairly good but still requires a bit of tweaking to the interiors, a replacement tailwheel, the bombbay (three rows of bombs please) and the odd bit of sanding to shape. Pretty well everything on the wings has to go, including the wings themselves. Offhand, I think the only undercarriage side frames are good. Oh, and the wing tips themselves?

[SeaVenom]

I fear you may be underestimating all that is wrong with the Revell kit. Sorting out the inaccuracies would mean an almost entirely new tooling. As said above, the fuselage is fairly good but still requires a bit of tweaking to the interiors, a replacement tailwheel, the bombbay (three rows of bombs please) and the odd bit of sanding to shape. Pretty well everything on the wings has to go, including the wings themselves. Offhand, I think the only undercarriage side frames are good. Oh, and the wing tips themselves?

They're never going to fix every little thing but the most glaring thing wrong to me is the prop blades and maybe then the engines. I wonder also if some of those parts included (like the prop blades) were intended for the later marks and there was some mix up at the factory?

[Trenton guy]

Has anyone else noticed that the Hercules nacelles on a Halifax are wider than the Merlin ones. Confirmed by all the good plans I have and reference to to photographs. It is pretty easy to spot because the Hercules nacelle overlaps a major wing joint. The Merlin nacelle does not. My personal opinion is that Revell "bodged" a Merlin engine on to a correctly measured Hercules nacelle. While there is a Hercules engined Halifax available to measure I'm not sure if the same can be said for the Merlin one. Doesn't provide an excuse for the over wing fairings which aren't correct for either variant. This observation has some implications for how one would approach a Mk III conversion. I plan use the existing kit nacelles from the leading edge back and some combination of Airfix and Paragon parts forward. Thoughts anyone?

[Graham Boak]

The nacelle width/engine bulkhead has been measured on the RAF Museums' Merlin Halifax, and it was determined that the kit was too wide - the Matchbox one being too small. The Matchbox kit was apparently based on the otherwise superb Grainger drawings of the type - difficult though that is to believe when looking at it! I only read this after trimming the Revell kit nacelles down to take modified Matchbox intakes, which is excessive. You'll find a discussion on this in at least one earlier Halifax discussion on this forum.

Could you expand upon what you mean by "overlaps a major wing joint"? Where does it do this? At the fairing on the leading edge? Alongside the undercarriage bay? And just what good plans do you have for a Hercules Halifax? The best ones I have are the very old Merrick ones from Aeromodeller. I'd be surprised to find that the nacelles are any different back at the undercarriage bay, but never say never. And if they are wider, then at least the too-wide kit parts will make a better start and save a lot of work on the undercarriage.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Graham Boak

[modelldoc]

See what's happen on New Years Day.

modelldoc

[Trenton guy]

The plans that I have are the K. A. Merrick plans. The same ones you mention. The major joint that I referred to is at dihedral break. There is a cover plate that runs from the leading to the trailing edge at that point. Looking at the upper plan views of both marks you will observe that the Hercules nacelle joins the leading edge at the outboard edge of the chordwise cover plate while the Merlin nacelle joins it at the inboard edge suggesting that the Hercules nacelle is 2X the width of that cover plate wider. Something similar can be seen at the inboard edge of the outer nacelles where another cover plate is found. The lower views of both nacelles suggest that this extra width carries all the way back. Hope this explation is a little clearer.

[SeaVenom]

See what's happen on New Years Day.

modelldoc

Probably nothing.

[Work In Progress]

Thoughts anyone?

Yes. Use the Airfix wings, not the Revell wings, as Speedbird did.

[woody37]

Using the Airfix or matchbox wings on the revell fuselage is straightforwards although the outer engines need dropping about 1.5mm on the matchbox ones

[modelldoc]

Or wait until.....

modelldoc

[tonyot]

Using the Airfix or matchbox wings on the revell fuselage is straightforwards although the outer engines need dropping about 1.5mm on the matchbox ones

And don`t forget to remove some of the Airfix wing from the root as this wing slides into the Airfix fuselage whereas the Revell fuselage has a flush fit. Best was is to do what I did and fit the wing onto the Airfix fuselage, mark it and then cut appropriately along the lines. Here is my Airfix/ Revell lovechild;

Cheers

Tony.

[Work In Progress]

That's really very nice. I think when I get round to a Hali I should do that rather than build the Airfix one out of the box.

For those who have not seen it, the build thread for this is combined with Woody37's similarly inspired Matchbox / Revell Frankenhalifax, over here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234910638-matchbox-airfix-and-revell-halifax-lovechildren

Edited December 21, 2014 by Work In Progress

[Derwentsider]

I think Modelldoc may know something we don't? I can live with a newly tooled wing with Hercules engines (he says, living in hope)

[Graham Boak]

From previous postings - yes. Whether he actually does or not I don't know for absolute certainty, but I do think that he may well... I am certainly expecting something in the Revell announcement. I shall surely buy one, if in somewhat less-than-gleeful anticipation, unless horror stories abound first.

[SeaVenom]

Only problem is........if they do a Hercules engine and don't improve the existing version we'll still be stuck with that.

[Graham Boak]

Yes, but the most obtrusive of the errors are forward of the leading edge and will disappear anyway. The fuselage is pretty good, with only a few tweaks needed. We won't be left with a perfect Halifax but probably the best of a poor bunch. That does however rather depend upon just what they manage to do with the Hercules cowlings.

If you do have a spare Matchbox kit around, the ailerons will provide you with four lower halves to improve two Revell kits. You can use the tailwheel and the mainwheels (must check that) so the kit is not entirely useless.

[modelldoc]

Relax, enjoy Christmas and wait....

modelldoc

[VMA131Marine]

Relax, enjoy Christmas and wait....

modelldoc

and pray that it's not Trumpeter or Hobby Boss that's doing a new Halifax kit.