Fritag Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 .... she would particularly enjoy the phrase "perpendicular to the longitudinal centre line". I'll have you know that I slaved over the crafting of that particular phrase.......l earnesltly believe it to be a phrase worthy of respect and it saddens me that your estimable missus might think otherwise..........however I do fear that my estimable missus might also think otherwise. And now for some bad news for Steve, the MDC moulded into the canopy isnt inset, I wish it had been. Mine would have had some thin paint to colour it 'here' No it has been moulded proud so any paint has a tendency to swill around the edges, I couldn't even get the marker pen to stick to it as I wanted Now that caused me to open the box of my Airfix Hawk - and I beg to report that the MDC is definitely recessed. I stuck a cocktail stick in it to satisfy myself of the same. Mine is the most recent (I think) Airfix boxing of a Red Arrows Hawk - maybe it's a different moulding? Oh - but there seems to be a moulding flaw in the canopy - a visible line - I think it's happening a lot in Airfix canopies isn't it? Didn't Col have issues with a lightning canopy? Don't think it matters as I think I'll mould a canopy anyway. 'Cause we all worship you as a god-like deity with magical scale modelling powers.Yes that's wot I think when I look in the bathroom mirror in the morning.......how did you know Col? Oh no - I forgot - wot I think at such times is in fact - b*ll*cks here we go; another day of law..............I hate the law...........how did I become a lawyer..........I wonder If I can skive off today.......no hang on I skived off yesterday and when you're self employed no-one pays you when you skive off.......b*ll*cks...... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Well I hope you do have an easy one Steve. Mine is a A02005 and I was told by a man who 'deals' in kits in a small but highly perfessional way that it's the latest version And when I tried to paint the tops of the groove it spilled over And when I think about it, I really didn't try too hard so it could well have 'spilled' because I was splashing the edges I am half blind and fully daft you know (Listen up, I finished the model as is to avoid fines and penalties, the Red Arrows Hawk I want to make (I got it cheap at Telford) has an un MDC'd canopy (and a decent set of arm's to hang off it) And will be getting a billmoulded one And in other news, started fitting the brake pipes to the main legs, GR1 #1 Airfix version and filling the nose of the LRMTS joints with Perfect Putty applied wet Brake pipes two for the inner face of the bogie one for the outer face, cyano setting nicely here Also bringing the Italeri legs up to my decided condition, new shockers added to the revised brackets Shown with the Airfix legs for comparison and on reflection I may alter the top brackets to bring them out further from the upper legs, they may be just a tad 'no blooooomin good' In other news I got the Hawk primed this morning (outside before the air temp dropped a couple more degrees and it got damper) Doesn't seem to need much micromeshing to be smooth enough Remember a few hours ago I cursed the blackfly that hatched early, look where he decided was a safe landing strip Wasn't Dear Airfix Nice moulding Awful damned trenches all over it Back in 1975 you moulded the Jaguar you are still selling, with finely raised panel lines Much much much nicer, know what I mean Also the Hawk's decal sheet seems to have the air intake interior white stripes for the Red's livery (decals 47 and 48) Be nice if you mentioned it on my kit instructions, nudge nudge (CT will pop in here in a moment to tell me that they are there I just haven't read the instructions properly Edited January 22, 2015 by perdu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Also the Hawk's decal sheet seems to have the air intake interior white stripes for the Red's livery (decals 47 and 48) Be nice if you mentioned it on my kit instructions, nudge nudge Its on my instruction sheet, I'm gonna let him know (CT will pop in here in a moment to tell me that they are there I just haven't read the instructions properly Bl__dy mind reader! On my instructions its on stage 5 & 6 but they are decals 35 & 36. So looks like you have slightly different kit, maybe the tail decal will fit on yours. I have kit A02005A. BTW I put the intake decals on after assembly and painting and seemed to go in ok, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 I just knowed it I wonder if the A signifies much This kit is A02005 no suffix or prefixes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) riiigghto Stages five and six, I can't see a decal placement advice on here, paint yes but decs no and the decals sheet, no flash to allow contrast pieces 47 and 48 seem to be the insiders just because Edited January 23, 2015 by perdu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougC Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) So, standby for some more thread drift...... actually, it's more of an unashamed temporary thread hijack (promise I'll give it back soon). The Hawk canopy & MDC..... Well - to start with that photo's just about perfect to use to make a template/jig....... Keep returning just to look at that photo. It's captivating...............Oh - as is your work on the jags of course Bill The photo CT posted of the Arrows Hawk is a cracker too. Is it my eyes or are the NACA ducts on the noes (at least the larger front one) angled at the back rather than perpendicular to the longitudinal centre line. Not noticed that before. It certainly is a great photo but before my Hawk build stalled a while back due to me going blind trying to do the flaps, I spent a little time (I believe the correct term is "displacement activity") thinking about how to do the MDC..... & I found this photo on t'net: Aside from being an absolute stunner (& all credit to EJ the photographer!), it's possibly the most perfect orthogonal view (think that's the right term) I've seen of a Hawk canopy from above. So..... while still avoiding doing any work on the flaps, I spent a couple of hours on my 'puter with a drawing program & came up with this: Which, as you'll see I "unwrapped" a little to cater for the doube curvature of the canopy, especially at the front end. I'm not sure how I planned to translate that into a workable MDC for the kit but I think I had a vague idea of printing it on some decal paper..... might just steal Fritag's 0.1mm copper wire idea though. It does seem to compare pretty well against the drawing on LSP which Cheshiretaurus kindly found for us. A Drawing here on this page on the Large Scale Planes website for the MDC, not checked it for accuracy though. In other news, the Reds photo also seems to show 2 further details: 1. The NACA inlet on the nose is definitely offset from the longitudinal centreline.... but I'm not sure it's angled. Maybe just the light in the previous photo? 2. The Hawk's pitot probe appears to be straight all the way to the tip.... unlike the Master brass replacement which has a bulbous end. So to speak. If anyone (Hawkeeper?) can confirm this, it would probably save us all a few quid. Anyway, sorry Bill, blatant thread hijack over (actually it was just an attempt to get Fritag started on his Hawks so I can copy them). I'm sure (ab)normal service will be resumed any time now..... Edited January 23, 2015 by DougC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) I just knowed it I wonder if the A signifies much This kit is A02005 no suffix or prefixes Ah. See here: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234923401-raf-red-arrows-hawk/ Looks like A02005A was a revised tooling - which seemingly doesn't have the 'trenches' of yours Bill. I have an Airfix A02005A and a Revell (Italeri) kit and an old matchbox version to compare. Aside from being an absolute stunner (& all credit to EJ the photographer!), it's possibly the most perfect orthogonal view (think that's the right term) I've seen of a Hawk canopy from above. So..... while still avoiding doing any work on the flaps, I spent a couple of hours on my 'puter with a drawing program & came up with this: Which, as you'll see I "unwrapped" a little to cater for the doube curvature of the canopy, especially at the front end. I'm not sure how I planned to translate that into a ........ Anyway, sorry Bill, blatant thread hijack over (actually it was just an attempt to get Fritag started on his Hawks so I can copy them). I'm sure (ab)normal service will be resumed any time now... Ooo. Can I download that please Doug? For my part I say - get on with it man - I am perfectly willing, nay delighted, at the thought of you encountering, highlighting, improving or solving any and all issues with the kit Just as I'm bloomin delighted that Bill is working on his Jags - especially the Hasegawa one - as long as he doesn't trademark his improvements Edited January 23, 2015 by Fritag 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolarDoc Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Smashing through perspex with seat and bone dome was good enough for Fritag. The designer of complex MDCs was obviously not a conscientious modeller. What's wrong straight lines like the front seat of the tucano? (Mind you that was just a tease when you look at the rear seat ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 riiigghto Stages five and six, I can't see a decal placement advice on here, paint yes but decs no and the decals sheet, no flash to allow contrast pieces 47 and 48 seem to be the insiders just because Looks like Airfix rejiggled and renumbered the decal sheet and fettled the instruction sheet accordingly. It appears you have the 2009 vintage and Fritag and I have 2012 Bottle which is marked new tool, A lot has to be said for good vintage though! 2. The Hawk's pitot probe appears to be straight all the way to the tip.... unlike the Master brass replacement which has a bulbous end. So to speak. If anyone (Hawkeeper?) can confirm this, it would probably save us all a few quid. Yes it is, used the master models brass probe on this, might go and find a sewing needle now. Yes I know the white stripe is too low CT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Yes it is, used the master models brass probe on this, might go and find a sewing needle now. I think it does have a little bit of a bulge on the end: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/western214h/media/Hawk%20walkround/Pitotprobe2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=82 I think - this is Hawkeeper's photo - I bookmarked it following a link (IIRC) from one of his posts elsewhere. Your master models problem looks pretty good in comparison don't it? If it's a tad overdone maybe a gentle twist with some fine emery paper would cut it back enough? Edited January 23, 2015 by Fritag 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I think it does have a little bit of a bulge on the end: With scorch marks too, I'll go and put the needle away now shall I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 With scorch marks too, I'll go and put the needle away now shall I. But get your candle out and blacken the end? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshiretaurus Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 But get your candle out and blacken the end? If only master models made their probes from steel I wouldn't have had to put Alclad on then I could have put real scorch marks on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Nice view of the rear seat apron on that pic too Doug No mate this isn't thread drift this is planning extrapolation, not only welcome but more or less demanded on any thread I'm up for That orthoblobbery picture sems to confirm a slightly angled NACA duct too Steve, to me it looks slightly biased to port And the back line is definitely just a tad forward on the starboard edge And oh dear, I paid three quid for an out of date model Oh woe is me, and thrice woe or maybe not And back to the Jags, I am going to make the upper shock links longer so the shock comes closer to the leg as it comes down to the swing arm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 To extrapolate furtherly And even prevaricate (whilst awaiting the drying of some paint, maybe) I took a look at the Hawks on that great link from Steve Lookit the NACA duct on this shot, even allowing for parallax and leaning over the pitot to take the shot that duct is very definitely biased to starboard And it isn't on the centre line either Kite needs a wash though, how tatty is that? I expect Steve will be adding the paint erosion to the front aerial base too I won't (the line of screw heads? Mmm, not sure yet.) None of this research is going on my Hospice Arrow, this will be on a 1978 Brawdy bird from the Modeldecals sheet that has the Finningley Jag on it. Might as well use up some of the sheet once I've disturbed it) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougC Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Ooo. Can I download that please Doug? But of course! I'll try sending you my "workings" via PM..... I think it does have a little bit of a bulge on the end: http://smg.photobucket.com/user/western214h/media/Hawk%20walkround/Pitotprobe2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=82 I think - this is Hawkeeper's photo - I bookmarked it following a link (IIRC) from one of his posts elsewhere. Your master models problem looks pretty good in comparison don't it? If it's a tad overdone maybe a gentle twist with some fine emery paper would cut it back enough? You're right & I stand corrected. It's difficult to get a decent photo of the pitot without its cover on but the one you linked shows it perfectly. I think the Reds one I posted earlier has been cropped just before the "bulbous tip". Oo er missus. Guess we'll all be shelling out for Master pitot probes. I ought to buy shares in them before the rush.... To extrapolate furtherly And even prevaricate (whilst awaiting the drying of some paint, maybe) I took a look at the Hawks on that great link from Steve Lookit the NACA duct on this shot, even allowing for parallax and leaning over the pitot to take the shot that duct is very definitely biased to starboard And it isn't on the centre line either D'you know..... I think you're right about that too. I'm off to the opticians..... if I can find the door. Anyway Bill, about these Jaguars...... Edited January 23, 2015 by DougC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) The door Doug? It's over there just behind the rather large door security advisor who won't let me out, good luck with that But I take your point I do have some more Jagging to report, but alas not a huge amount I see on all the photos I have of the undercarriage that there are three very prominent brake lines that service the slowing down department (More than a little bit very adequately too) As I have one pair of usable legs for now I decided to see how they look in very fine wire et viola Here is the first and second glueing Then I finish glued the ends to the swing arms And painted the wires, silver at the top and black for the flexibles, these will be getting a second coat to help make them thicker as on the real deal Hoping to get the renewed upper link brackets on the Italeri legs later on So now I have decided to order three sets of Jag pitots I suppose I'd better get one for the Hawk too, that won't be far behind the Jags even if it seems I'm taking forever with these three Only a small update as usual Sorry Edited January 23, 2015 by perdu 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 there's a bunch of photo's of the undercarriage (and sundry other bits) on these pages from that fine Japanese gentleman's site I mentioned a while back..... http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/waJag1.html http://nabe3saviation.web.fc2.com/waJag2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Lovely legs Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 thanks hon They'll do for me Hendie thanks for the links Put that on my linklist now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascoteer Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Aye, I love yer legs Bill! (Oooh er!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ta Debs You must mean the Jag's legs My own are well past it these days They will never be doing the Fan Dance again, though the new metalwork should last me out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Nice work on that undercarriage Bill! Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Lovely legs Bill Ditto. You might want to consult someone about those varicose veins, though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritag Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Lookit the NACA duct on this shot, even allowing for parallax and leaning over the pitot to take the shot that duct is very definitely biased to starboard And it isn't on the centre line ........ I have a bit of a confession to make. Whilst it has turned out that the NACA duct does indeed look like it's off center and biased. When I originally made the observation looking at the photo CT posted at #108 I had mis-idented the black blade aerial and its shadow on the nose as a second NACA duct and I was in fact commenting on the non-existing one. Been feeling a bit guilty about spuriosuly spawning a mini debate that proved me wrongly to be right as it were........... There got that one off my conscience. BTW Bill, you started the Hawk chat as it were by posting up you build piccies - but I want to debate the pros and cons of the Airfix/Italeri kits a bit and seek a few views/ bits of info whilst I think about starting my own Hawks. Shall I do that here or move it over to the back end of my JP thread? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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