TheBaron Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 20 hours ago, hendie said: I'm happy with that. Indeed. Certainly good enough for Jehovah. 20 hours ago, hendie said: Finally, all four formers done and in place. The two in the center run parallel with the longitudinal axis of the car, but the two formers outboard of them are slightly canted and angled in towards the two box sections either side of the gangway Doubtless a blindingly obvious question Alan but why that particular cant/angle? 20 hours ago, hendie said: I'm happy with that. Indeed. Certainly good enough for Jehovah. 20 hours ago, hendie said: Finally, all four formers done and in place. The two in the center run parallel with the longitudinal axis of the car, but the two formers outboard of them are slightly canted and angled in towards the two box sections either side of the gangway Doubtless a blindingly obvious question Alan but why that particular cant/angle? Excellent scale Andrex btw. Can see the quilt from here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 The Baron apparently has hiccups. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted June 17, 2020 Author Share Posted June 17, 2020 15 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: Convincing, YES! Ta Pete. Convincing is what I'm aiming for 14 hours ago, CedB said: Wot Pete said - amazing, especially the bendy bits. Great work hendie Thanks Ced. Those bendy bits are a right kerfuffle, but worth it when they're fitted 30 minutes ago, Pete in Lincs said: The Baron apparently has hiccups. or perhaps dementia? 52 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Indeed. Certainly good enough for Jehovah. Doubtless a blindingly obvious question Alan but why that particular cant/angle Tony, It's been over 20 years so some of the reasoning is long lost to the mists of time. My best guess is that the longitudinal stringers were positioned to provide both adequate support for the roof skin, and possibly some fittings/structure beneath - Cable trays maybe? I doubt I would have picked 577 mm as an arbitrary value? The structure at the vestibule ends was designed to meet then current crash standards so there was a series of beams, angles, shear plates, shear brackets etc all interconnecting to absorb or lessen the effect of any impact. The two outboard (green ) channels were positioned directly above the doors (remember they're inset from the side frame) - and the two inboard channels (either side of "Front Elevation") were welded directly behind the two vertical box sections (crash pillars) either side of the gangway. You can also see a shear plate fitted to the top side of the two inboard channels in this view - though I've left that one off on the build, while I have included the two vertical shear plates welded to the inside face of the two outboard channels In order to keep that continuity of structure for crash impact, the "bendy bits" as Ced so eloquently puts it, form a connection - i.e. welded between the crash pillars at the end of the carriage, and the longitudinal stringers, which were in turn all welded to the roof skin. The weird angle also means that the Tee bar can be perpendicular to the roof skin, or as perpendicular as it could be given all those compound curves, allowing two welds along the top flange of the Tee - giving a little bit extra strength. All this meant that while the vestibule ends and crash pillars took the brunt of any impact, the forces would be transmitted through and (at least partially) absorbed by the side-frame and roof structure also. It could be considered something of a workaround - as we couldn't get the vestibule strong enough by itself due to the doorways being inset from the side frames. As well as the drawings - about 5 or 6 of those concentrating on just structures in the vestibule area, there was a dozen pages or so of calculations showing moments, distribution of forces etc. all proving that the structure met or exceeded regulations. All that had to be approved by whatever body was in charge of Rail Safety at that time. It was a bit of a big deal as there had been a spate of high profile rail crashes through the 90's iirc so the authorities were very edgy about letting a 1951 design back on the tracks without some serious beefing up This view shows the slightly skewy way the two formers attach between the structures in my defense, it was the first time I ever designed a train, so much like this build, I was making a lot of it up as I went along 52 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Excellent scale Andrex btw. Can see the quilt from here. Charmin please - this is a luxury carriage! The attendant even put those little origami folds at the end 52 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Indeed. Certainly good enough for Jehovah. Doubtless a blindingly obvious question Alan but why that particular cant/angle? Didn't we just go through all this? 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 7 hours ago, hendie said: Didn't we just go through all this? Thread this epic was bound to have an impressive echo. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larchiefeng Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 You have really captured the realism of the subject with each and every small detail! In some of those pictures, if it wasn’t sitting on your workbench, I could swear that it’s the real thing. Every small part just adds to the overall feel of a real rail carriage! I really like the addition of the roof framework and I agree with all the others, the red oxide is the right choice. If you think about it, it’s just another level of realism because that’s what you would see if the interior ceiling panels were removed. No need for anything other than a rustproof protective layer of paint up there and, with the added benefit of it being unobtrusive when viewed from above. I’m going to have to get out my thesaurus and find some new superlative words for what we are enjoying taking shape here! But, for now, outstanding work Alan! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Thanks for the drawings and explanation of the crash structure Alan, interesting to see how and why it was done. I remember some of those crashes you mention. In particular the tendency of those early carriages to ride up over each other with the chassis becoming, in effect, a giant steel razor, just shaving everything off the top of the chassis underneath. Including, of course any passengers unlucky enough to have been in that carriage. Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 19 hours ago, larchiefeng said: I really like the addition of the roof framework and I agree with all the others, the red oxide is the right choice. If you think about it, it’s just another level of realism because that’s what you would see if the interior ceiling panels were removed. No need for anything other than a rustproof protective layer of paint up there and, with the added benefit of it being unobtrusive when viewed from above. Thanks - it was a lucky turn. I must have spent countless hours trying to figure out how to have a roof and yet still see inside. Then all of a sudden, it came to me via another conversation - very fortuitous indeed. 10 hours ago, limeypilot said: Thanks for the drawings and explanation of the crash structure Alan, interesting to see how and why it was done. Thanks Ian - glad you appreciated it. It's really getting close now. Unfortunately that means that I'm now down to adding the finer details - all of which seem to take an inordinate amount of time to accomplish. Take this ceiling partition for instance. First of all, make the partition, file/sand it to shape. File notches for the Tee section to pass through. Cut holes for the vents etc. Oh - paint the vents too. They have to be painted separately because in behind the vent is some brass mesh, so I painted the recess black to make the brass stand out. - Then fit the brass, then finally, fit the vent. Can you even see the brass in there? I made things a bit difficult for myself by following the 1:1 in exact scale dimensions here. That meant that the vent is just under 1 mm bigger than the hole it fits over - making it a real pits to align properly. If I had thought ahead, I could have made a slightly bigger flange on the vent and no-one would be any the wiser. The first vestibule end was finished off. Formers in place and shear plates and shear brackets added. To say I'm a bit chuffed with this would be an understatement. I fixed the skewy former as well - looking much better now. Back up the other end, the first of the structure got fitted, and I finished off the mahogany trim strips in the corridor Ceiling trim strips got fitted in the bar area as well. And that pretty much finished off the bar fittings - all that was left was to add the two bench seats between the windows. I wasn't sure what color the seats were but managed to find one shot on t'interweb that showed they were a vague sort of purple color with a very subtle pattern. I just went for plain color here but I think it blends in nicely. Nothing too obtrusive. Moving into the dining area, the new luggage racks got fitted (to one side so far). The new racks look much better. I elongated the top shelf by about 1.5 mm and added a slight rake upwards - this has made all the difference to the appearance. Very pleased with those. I threw some roof sections in place just to see what the overall effect would be. I think it's going to be stunning when finished. I just need to keep the momentum going. I tried to get a shot with the ceiling partition and vent in place but the camera wasn't happy focusing to that depth. The overall state of play at this afternoons break was this I've even started putting some thought towards the separate roof. I printed off some fixtures that I think will help a lot with the roof. I'll be using 6 mm diameter brass rod to keep all the sections aligned And for the roof itself I think I am going to go with bass wood strips - easy to cut and sand. This is just early days though and really just testing the concept out. I find it hard to believe that after so long the end is almost in sight. The one main hurdle I still have left is the soft furnishings - the chairs! They have rather a complex leaf pattern on the fabric which caused me some sleepless nights in the past, but I think I now have a solution so stay tuned folks. I really must put some more time into designing the display case as I'll need to think about getting one made very soon. Eek! 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Just caught up with 2 weeks’ worth. Speechless! My cousin was killed in the Clapham crash in 1988, so I recall those crashes all too vividly 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 sorry to hear about your cousin Crisp. It must have been devastating for those families involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 Today was just one of those days - loads of time spent on finicky little details, but all the while edging to the finish line (I hope) My first job this morning was to tackle one of those long forgotten parts that have been lying around for literally years - the buffers. No train is complete without a set of buffers is it? Well, I'd made these years ago and put them to one side, never really thinking about them again, but today was the day - time to fit them and get the ends of the car fully complete. Oh dear... anyone spot a problem here? (poor photo I know) The diaphragm plate interferes with the buffers. Oh crap. How did that happen? I checked my drawings and everything looked fine. Then luckily I checked my reference photos and spotted the issue. Since we were reusing the diaphragm plates I didn't make a fully detailed drawing - just an overall outline, and in that drawing I had the sides of the diaphragm plate parallel all the way to the bottom. When I checked this photo... ('scuse the ornery looking gent with the white facial grubble staring back at you here - I've been under the weather for a few days and couldn't be bothered shaving) I could see that the diaphragm plates angled in towards the bottom to clear the buffers. Problem solved - now what to do about it? I hummed and hawed for 10 minutes or so... when everything was together would anyone really notice? I could still fit the buffers and get them into position without any problems. You know where I'm going here don't you? I would know - and it would annoy me. Then every-time I looked at this car I would see that glaring error. Nothing for it but to try and remedy the situation. The weapon of choice for this fine fettling was the flexible drive with sanding drum. Tension was high - I could foresee all sorts of issues and damage arising from this, not least of which was the paint peeling off the diaphragm plate due to heat build up. Look out folks... I'm going in! Around 30 minutes later. Clearance! Okay it's not pretty and it's minimal clearance, but if you look at the 1:1, there's minimal clearance on that too. What is amazing is that the diaphragm plates held fast during all that butchery - and they're only held on with cigarette paper and superglue. Amazing. Even more amazing is the fact that I didn't damage anything else in the process. A quick touch up with paint and that will be fine and no-one will be any the wiser. (the couplings were also fitted but I don't appear to have taken a photo) Yet another job that I'd been putting off was fitting the "open" doors. I'd had a couple of attempts at it during the week but wasn't happy with the results. Mainly I was getting too large a gap between the frame and the door. The problem was eventually solved by using styrene hinges 2 mm wide and superglued in to the frame. The ceiling partition at the dinette was fitted. I don't have any photographic proof of the vent being there but it does show up on the drawings so, one got fitted. Seems a bit weird being off center like that, but it is centered to the dinette area and I guess they need ventilation in there too. The remaining two luggage racks got fitted. Then last photo for today is just to prove that I did finally get around to fitting the axle boxes. They do stick out a little further than the real things but I had to make them that length so they would cover the axles. I can live with this. If I'm not careful I am going to be running out of stuff to do. The list is getting shorter and shorter - about bloomin' time though! Still tables and chairs to fit. I made up the table lamps today, but I think I have decided to reprint the wall lamps to see if I can get them any better. The biggest hurdle facing me now is the patterned fabric on the chairs. Once again decals are going to be the answer. I just need to sit down and create the pattern - then buy a printer. Ouch. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, hendie said: Then last photo for today is just to prove that I did finally get around to fitting the axle boxes. They do stick out a little further than the real things but I had to make them that length so they would cover the axles. I can live with this. I hope you greased the bearings, and fitted gaskets while you were at it. We don't want a hot box, do we? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 7 hours ago, hendie said: No train is complete without a set of buffers is it? Plenty of old buffers on this site! Lovely luggage racks. The off centre vent makes sense, and the shiny yellow axle boxes look good too. Sitting down while thinking about chairs sounds like a good idea. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 You're a very brave man Alan - when I saw the sanding disc I thought… But no, as usual you pulled it off (fnaar!)* All looking magnificent - Mrs B bought me a tea and glanced at the screen in wonder - she was impressed! * Been a bit slow on the double-entendres of late so I thought I'd slip one in (arf woof!) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-FAAWAFU Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Wait, go back a little. You used styrene hinges?!? In this cathedral of exquisite brass and wood? Truly multi-media 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bentwaters81tfw Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Wait, go back a little. You used styrene hinges?!? In this cathedral of exquisite brass and wood? Truly multi-media Burn the heretic! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo NZ Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, CedB said: * Been a bit slow on the double-entendres of late so I thought I'd slip one in (arf woof!) I'm sure it's been on this forum, but it deserves repeating. From "Round the Horne". Kenneth Horne: "If I se a double entendre in the script, I whip it out immediately" 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdave22014 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Excellent save with the buffers and buffing plate. Now with added buckeye as well! That's a coach end as I remember them (although with a loco it would be buffers extended and buckeye dropped). Outstanding work as always. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 In this advanced stage I'm finding it really hard to relate this carriage to any kind of scale at all Alan: if it wasn't for the visual cues in the background providing contrary information it would not occur to me to asssume this was so much more smaller than the original. Really hope you get to take some shots in daylight at the end to display it in conditions of natural lightING - it will look fantastic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perdu Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Marvellous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Very nice save. Nearly there.... Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 On 6/20/2020 at 7:11 PM, bentwaters81tfw said: I hope you greased the bearings, and fitted gaskets while you were at it. We don't want a hot box, do we? nothing worse than a hot box in the summer heat is there ? #swampass On 6/21/2020 at 2:09 AM, Pete in Lincs said: Plenty of old buffers on this site! Lovely luggage racks. The off centre vent makes sense, and the shiny yellow axle boxes look good too. Sitting down while thinking about chairs sounds like a good idea. Thanks Pete. Us old buffers just keep rolling don't we? On 6/21/2020 at 2:49 AM, CedB said: You're a very brave man Alan - when I saw the sanding disc I thought… But no, as usual you pulled it off (fnaar!)* All looking magnificent - Mrs B bought me a tea and glanced at the screen in wonder - she was impressed! * Been a bit slow on the double-entendres of late so I thought I'd slip one in (arf woof!) for "brave" read petrified Ced! It could so easily have ended in tears but luck was with me that day. Tell Mrs B thanks On 6/21/2020 at 2:50 AM, Ex-FAAWAFU said: Wait, go back a little. You used styrene hinges?!? In this cathedral of exquisite brass and wood? Truly multi-media Yup, styrene. It comes in useful every now and then Crisp. On 6/21/2020 at 2:58 AM, bentwaters81tfw said: Burn the heretic! On 6/21/2020 at 3:22 AM, Jo NZ said: I'm sure it's been on this forum, but it deserves repeating. From "Round the Horne". Kenneth Horne: "If I se a double entendre in the script, I whip it out immediately" On 6/21/2020 at 5:15 AM, Bigdave22014 said: Excellent save with the buffers and buffing plate. Now with added buckeye as well! That's a coach end as I remember them (although with a loco it would be buffers extended and buckeye dropped). Outstanding work as always. ta Bigdave! glad it meets with your approval. On 6/21/2020 at 1:55 PM, TheBaron said: In this advanced stage I'm finding it really hard to relate this carriage to any kind of scale at all Alan: if it wasn't for the visual cues in the background providing contrary information it would not occur to me to asssume this was so much more smaller than the original. Really hope you get to take some shots in daylight at the end to display it in conditions of natural lightING - it will look fantastic. yeah, I'm certainly going to try. My camera seems to be playing up and I can't get a decent photo out of it these days - the shots in this update are terrible On 6/22/2020 at 11:02 AM, perdu said: Marvellous ta Bill On 6/24/2020 at 9:56 AM, Brandy said: Very nice save. Nearly there.... Ian okay, that had me going for a while. Brandy? Then I saw your moniker at the end and had to do a bit of searching to confirm it was you. Someone somewhere sometime asked a question about what I intended to do with the vents. There are some cool looking features on the roof and I kind of wanted to show where the vents came through into the various compartments. I did a quick mock up with one of the rotating vents to see what it would look like if I just had a small section of roof where the vent was situated I really didn't like it - It takes away from the overall appearance of the car when there's just a small section like that and I think it's way too obtrusive. So that's made me have a rethink on how I am going to approach the separate roof. Initially I was just going to do the outer skin with roof fittings and have it mounted at an angle inside the display case. I'm now thinking that I may add a mirror underneath the separate roof and include all the vents and lights etc inside the roof now. I think it was Tony who suggested a mirror - that would work for seeing under the roof into the ceiling recess. I'll need to mull that over. In between times, the corridor/dining area door was fitted - what a palaver that was! The corridor/bar area door was fitted - a lot easier this time around. The dining area/bar area door is still to be fitted but I want to get the chairs and tables fitted first. The display cabinet in the bar was fitted Then I got around to the lights again. I decided to reprint them - this time in a different orientation. The last time I printed them I had them lying on their backs and what should have been a cavity between the back plate and the 'glass' was mostly filled as the resin had no clear path for draining. This time I stood the lamps on end so that the opening to the cavity was pointing directly down during the printing process. In this shot you can see the lack of a distinct cavity in the original lamps (held by tweezers) and the row of lamps in front of that has a nice clearly defined cavity Happy with that result I painted the lamps. I accidentally left the lamps for longer than I wanted under the UV lamp and the resin started to yellow, but I caught it just in time. The photo makes it look yellower than it does to the MkI eyeball. The last sections of roof are printing off as I type - then all that's left is the chairs. I went to paint them yesterday and opened up the paint I had earmarked as the base color - only to find that it had evaporated and all that was left was a hard lump of pigment in the bottom of the jar. Sods law in action. More paint ordered and should be here this week sometime. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 So, it is all done with mirrors! I suspected as much. Good idea though. And those roof vents wouldn't look out of place on my Sci Fi builds. Great shape. Doors and the display cabinet getting fitted, we must be getting close to the terminus. And the lights look splendid. A nice update, shame about the paint! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Yes, it's still me. decided to change to my long-time nickname. My last name being Brand, my mates have called me Brandy for years. Somewhat similar situation to you I'm guessing! Big improvement on the lights. Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedB Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Another great update hendie - those lights look much crisper 8 hours ago, hendie said: I really didn't like it Phew. I'm with you, again. Mirror under the roof - great idea. It should allow you to go mad on the 'ceiling' without detracting from the rest. Reminds me of an old Bob Monkhouse joke that may be a bit risqué for some: Spoiler When I make love to my wife I like to have a mirror in the bedroom. I hold it over her nose to make sure she's still breathing. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Smith Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Incredible modelling demonstrating may different skill sets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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