Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage

[perdu]

That was five days ago Hendie mate

just saying........

[hendie]

workin' on it.... workin' on it.

I did attempt to get some work done but had a small setback which caused a rethink..... which I think is now fine, so hopefully there will be some news by early next week

[hendie]

So, I did get some work done on this over the weekend. Things progressed - but not according to plan... at least not the original plan.

Armed with my trusty flame thrower and various victims thicknesses of brass sheet, I once more attempted to create a bogie sideframe. By now I was down to a very thin brass sheet 0.015" (I think), and even the process of annealing it bent it way out of shape.

Undeterred, I slammed it into the vice along with my aluminum master template, and started attacking it with a hammer 'n' a dod of wood.

It started off quite well......

But I found that even the process of filing it bent it out of shape again, and as before - I was still getting those lumpy bits at the rear face.

However I carried on to see if I could get a decent sideframe.... I did not - at least not one I was happy with. I had several attempts but each time I knew that I would hate myself later if I tried to use it.

I then had the bright idea of making one out of styrene - if I used 0.125" thick sheet, I could make a silicone master and cast the rest. Great idea 'cept for some reason I couldn't make a decent master out of the thick styrene. I guess I could have used the aluminum part but it was a little worse for wear after all the hammering.

Then I finally resigned myself to adopting the method I probably should have used several months ago and saved myself a lot of grief - inspired by RichO's superb build over in the sci-fi forum ( http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234959313-apollo-crawler-at-172-scale/ ) - styrene sheet! Now if Rich can create a crawler of that scale and complexity out of styrene - surely a couple of bogies wouldn't be too hard would it ?

So, following my usual method, I used DraftSight (Free!) to draw the parts 1:1 then scaled them down to 1/32, printed them out, stuck them to some styrene sheet and a few flicks of the knife later.... hey presto!

After a few misfires, I realized that a certain amount of pre-forming (aka bending the styrene around a brass tube) went a long way to helping produce a good part.

I soon had a Gresley production line going. A certain amount of clean up will be required - it's amazing where that glue gets to at times. However, I now have 4 bogies after all these months.

Unfortunately I have to drill almost 70 holes in each sideframe for rivets 'n' bolts 'n' stuff. I also have to profile the bottom edge of each one - I have started to fillet the lower edge in this photo. Doing all 4 is going to take some time.

At this point, I hit a roadblock. Despite weeks of searching I could not find certain key dimensions that I needed, particularly concerning the width of the bogies. I eventually joined a rail enthusiasts forum, and within a matter of hours, some kind souls had provided me with the dimensions I needed - *and* some original drawings which will come in very handy later in the build.

That information allowed me to proceed and make the headstocks/end frames of the bogies.

So, the next job will be a lot of sanding, shaping, more sanding and more shaping to get all the fillets done on these parts. It also looks like I need to spend a small fortune on some teensy weensy rivets.

But whoa! I hear you say..... styrene bogies (stop laughing there at the back!) will never support all that weight will it ? Of course not - The plan is to use brass framing inside the styrene bogies so the brass will do all the work and the styrene will just hang around looking pretty. By the time it's all painted, no-one will ever be able to tell the difference.

With all the drawings and photo's I have now of the Gresley's, constructing the bogies will not be difficult.

[Brandy]

I don't think I've EVER seen so much effort put in to produce a bogie! Then to drill holes in it too.....my head's about to cave in....

Ian

ps beautifully done though!

[hendie]

Thanks Ian, this is turning out to be a much larger job than I originally anticipated. The bogies are quite a complicated (and hefty) piece of machinery. There's always the "they'll be sitting under the train and no-one will ever look at them" argument, but that doesn't feel right and I know I'd kick myself for it later.

[perdu]

I think that is the point where I'd have resorted to 'more of the same (panel beating) only using sheet steel Hendie

Your way looks better

[hendie]

Things are progressing slowly - I have been jumping back and forth between this and the Wessex build.

The headstocks are now built and shaped, with holes drilled for the rrivets. The bogie sideframes are still taking shape - I have been trying to build up the courage to sit there for a couple of hours and complete the sanding and shaping... so far with little success!

A quick test with some rivets I had left over form my Dalek build shows that these little 1mm rivets will be perfect for the bogies.

I discovered that there are a number of bolts on the bogie sideframes, whereas previously, I had thought there were only (lots and lots of) rivets. I have now placed an order with scale hardware for the necessary bits and bobs, along with a few other orders for necessary materials.

One of the biggest things holding me back now is the wheels - it appears I cannot get what I need here in the USA so I have had to try and source them from the UK, and I am waiting to hear just how much it's going to cost me - hopefully I will have that info in a few days.

The reason I need the wheels now is that my plan for the bogies includes trying to replicate the original design in brass, which will all nestle inside the styrene outer frame. I need the strength of brass as the finished carriage will have a substantial weight and styrene just wouldn't cut it. So, without knowing the axle diameter, or the wheel spacing etc, I don't want to go ahead and build a brass frame, as sod's law would take over and I'd just need to remake them to the correct size once I finally get my hands on some wheels.

[Nigel Heath]

Nice to see those Dalek rivets getting some use and they look spot on.

[Biggles87]

You have boggled my mind once again!

[Bigglesof266]

'Insane' isn't it! WOW!

[RichO]

The styrene bogies turned out great so far! I really like working with styrene, you can make just about any shape and it's easy to work with. I'm watching closely, I have an armor build up next and I plan on stealing your techniques. Great Job!

[hendie]

The styrene bogies turned out great so far! I really like working with styrene, you can make just about any shape and it's easy to work with. I'm watching closely, I have an armor build up next and I plan on stealing your techniques. Great Job!

This looks like being a circular reference... 'cos I've been stealing yours !

[hendie]

just the smallest of updates, but proof that I am still in the land of the living, and progressing albeit at a snails pace (the Wessex has just got to an exciting part, and kind of diverted me from this for the moment)

After what seemed like an eternity of sanding and shaping, I blasted the bogie frames with rattle can primer to see what touch ups were required - actually not too bad

... and all the rivets and other bits and pieces turned up form Scale Hardware, which allowed me to begin the riveting process

and that's it ! - I said it was a small update didn't I ?

I now need to spend some quality CAD time figuring out how the internal structure of the bogies is going to work, as I need to make sure this all fits together. I promise the next update will be a bit more substantial !

[infofrog]

amazing work Hendie

Rick

[Nigel Heath]

No need to apologise for the update, it was small but perfectly formed. The bogies and rivets look great.

[perdu]

I'd hesitate to use a term like 'sweet' about some amazing chunks of proper engineering Hendie mate

but they really are sweet, exemplifying what we engineers would mean by the term

I'm slowly, belay that, I'm quickly falling in love with those wonderful rivets

A great update H

b

[RichO]

I'm with everybody else here, Nice Rivets!! Looking forward to seeing what's next!

[hendie]

I'm with everybody else here, Nice Rivets!! Looking forward to seeing what's next!

Not much, and more of the same unfortunately. I have been slowly (very slowly!) beavering away at the bogies and moving forward at little more than a snail's pace, however, my main focus has been on the Wessex, but I'm still trying to visit this every now and again. I just ordered a bunch of parts today.

This is a very tedious part of the build, but one that needs to be done before I can really move forward. As you can see here, the rivets start off life as something approaching manageable size.... and then I go and cut them down - yes, there's one in the jaws of the pliers

This will give you an indication of how hard these things are to handle. (I have lost a few...)

Finally finished the headstocks. - Each hole had to be drilled again as the paint filled the hole enough to prevent the rivet from fitting.

and completed the first of the bogie side frames. The side frames contain a mixture of both rivets and bolts. - Thankfully, scale hardware do a 1mm bolt which came in very handy.

The next stage is to file down any protruding stems on the reverse face, and then add a thin layer of super glue in the hope that it will seep into the holes and help hold the rivets in place.

Only three more side frames to go !!!

[larchiefeng]

I actually started reading this thread first and when it stopped for a while I went over to your Wessex build and I have been reading it a little at a time for days now, and I think I'm up to page 28. I really enjoy the scratch building process that you have been doing on this and the Wessex.

[hendie]

I have been a tad remiss at keeping this thread buzzing along - but as you probably noticed - the Wessex is getting perilously close to being finished and it's been taking up most of my attention - It's been almost a year since I started it and want to try and get it finished before the year is up.

[heloman1]

Good work with the rivets onthe side frames Hendie. It's starting to look like something railway wise.

Colin

[larchiefeng]

I'm now on page 54 or so on your Wessex build, it's my nightly reading, and I can see why this one is a little behind. I'm not really a helicopter guy but, I do like different interesting subjects and I'm a glutton for scratch building of any kind. I've learned a lot of new tricks, from builders of all types of models, and these two are no exception. It's funny how one thing leads to another and builds never seems to end.

[hendie]

things are a little slow just now - I'm away from home on a weeks training - but I had hoped to use this time to catch up on some CAD work which I need to do for the bogies. So far it hasn't happened but a 4 hour exam first thing on a Monday morning will do that to you

[perdu]

I wish you all you need for the exam

luck mate

There's no REAL hurry with this or the Wessie, we can wait

[hendie]

Well, it's been a long time since I visited this thread. I got caught up (more possessed really) by the Wessex build but that is nearing an end after more than a year of blood, sweat, and tears, and the occasional anxiety attack.

As the Wessex thread draws to a close I find myself having to stop and start due to waiting for materials, or waiting for things to dry etc. so in between Wessex sessions I have been trying to get my head back into this build.

I bodged up a small gauge so that I could make sure that all the axle openings were the same. It doesn't have to be exact as this is going to be a static display and will never run on tracks but if I don't get the alignment right it's all going to look a bit wonky.

If you've just joined this thread (or come back after my slightly elongated hiatus) I had loads of these rivets to fit to the bogie side-frames....

After a mind numbing couple of hours spread over the last two days, I finally got all the rivets and bolts in place. Here we are ready to prime....

and with the time leaping magic of t'inerweb, here we are all primed

and here's a close up (or clos-er up) so you can see that there are actually a mixture of rivets and bolts on each side-frame. A total of 10 bolts, and 54 rivets per side-frame (so far...)

I think I can honestly say that I am very, very glad that this part of the build is over. Cutting, then fitting all those rivets made my eyes hurt!

Looks a bit heavy duty and industrial doesn't it ?

The next job on the list is to start working out how the bogie internal frame is going to work. I managed to get some wheel sets for Gauge 1 which are close enough to what I need - I think they are about a millimeter out but who's going to notice that when it's all built up? (apart from me)

The internal structure of the bogies is going to take a little bit of thought - I need it strong enough to support the entire carriage, and it also needs to fit inside the styrene bogie side-frames - hopefully without being obtrusive.

I also have to devise a method of actually attaching the wheels and then to be able to adjust the height of the bogie frame relative to the wheels - then just to make things easy, I have to be able to adjust the ride height of the carriage relative to everything else!!! Oh... and the wheels have to fit in there as well!

As is always recommended with these (or any) type of builds - dry fitting as you go prevents problems creeping up on you later (or so I am told). It really doesn't matter that I have nothing to dry fit to - but I couldn't resist seeing how the wheels would look in the bogie.

It's moments like that ^^^ that give me encouragement to keep moving on. It's just a shame that they're all going to get painted black so all the detail will be lost - makes you wonder why we do this sometimes!

I am sure I had a drawing all worked up with dimensions for the bogie structure but I'm darned if I can find it anywhere. I distinctly remember spending an hour or two working out dimensions... guess I'll just have to do it again.