Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage

[hendie]

5 hours ago, silver911 said:

Will you then be applying a normal primer coat before the base (Colour) coat?

Reason I ask is because etch primers are very thin (I don't mean consistency) and don't provide a seal from moisture.

 

I hadn't planned t but now that you mention it I might just do that.

 

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

Glad you got the windows sorted

 

me too - otherwise it could have been even more embarrassing if I didn't notice it until I was finished !

 

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

Annoying on that paint reaction I know but all food for the commonwealth of lore that exists here on the forum

 

glad I could add to the knowledge base... I think 

 

Ah.. chocolate !   if only...

 

 

In tonight's episode, hendie finds another plan thwarted.  (cue a hushed "now there's a surprise" from the audience).   Whilst exploring @larchiefeng's idea of using minuscule nuts and bolts to secure the side frames I discovered a smiling murphy sheriff awaiting me.  The side frame was offered up to the chassis for mounting.. carefully positioned and the micro-drill was brought into action.

... Only to discover that the location of the holes in my nice brass angles fell very nicely halfway over the top of the "C" channel that I used for the chassis side rails.  Nice !

Since I'm drilling through styrene, the drill wants to wander considerably when it hits half brass and half air....  I can't move the holes further outboard as there is not enough styrene to provide any support.  Boogerations.

 

However, I think I may have the beginnings of a cunning plan.  Obviously, it needs to be cunning otherwise it won't work.  More later once I have finally figured out the cunning plan.

 

 

 

[Nigel Heath]

I have no doubt that cunning plan will work out very cunningly and look forward to seeing it unfold.

[perdu]

You know what?

 

He's too cunning, that Hendie

 

So it will be OK in two shakes of a duxtale

 

(wonders off wondering... will he build out/in the missing layer to allow straight drilling with strips of thin wood to add temporary stability to the drill bit?)

[TheBaron]

I'm beginning to suspect that hendie has a copy of the British train operator's Guide to Cancelling Services (Vol.1). 'Leaves on the track' is so last year now that 'The 12.40 from Guildford has been delayed due to holes in the C channel' is an option.

 

Confident that cunning will-out in this instance.

[Bigdave22014]

12 hours ago, Nigel Heath said:

I have no doubt that cunning plan will work out very cunningly and look forward to seeing it unfold.

Captain Blackadder: As cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University?

[hendie]

Progress has been made - and what's more is that it is progress in the forward direction.  Unusual for me but there you go.... the law of averages at work I guess.

Taking @silver911's information and weighing up my chances, I decided the best option for the vestibule ends was to sand back nice and smooth then add a coat of primer to eliminate any chance of the alclad reacting with the enamel again.  On the first go round, I did get a very slight reaction along one edge as you can see here, but once that was dried, it was sanded back and another coat of primer was added - this time no reaction.  In theory, it should now be ready for enamel, but I'm leaving it for a couple of days and I may add yet one more coat of primer as a safeguard.

 

 

In between sanding and spraying sessions I looked for some light entertainment, and remembered that in the vestibule there is a drop down shelf mounted on one of the walls.  It's a bit of a weird arrangement and the only reason I can see for a shelf there is to give the guard somewhere to rest his cup of tea - as when in use, it completely blocks access via the entrance/exit door.  Anyways, that was made from  a piece of basswood (as usual) but sanded down until it was about .25 mm thick, I then mounted some frame around it, added a hinge along the bottom edge from some brass rod, and found a small piece of unused PE from an earlier build which managed to look remarkably like a small recessed latch.  That has now been given a coat of semi gloss and is drying off, ready for installation later.

 

 

Now onto my cunning plan.  Unfortunately, my cunning plan proved to be not so cunning as I fleshed it out and realized that it was not really set up for success.  In the end my cunning plan was to revert back to plan A and persevere.  You can see just how close to the edge of the styrene I am here in this shot.  I took it as gently as I could, trying to keep the drill bit from slipping too much and just bursting out the side of the styrene.  I started out with a small drill (Ø0.8 mm or so?) and then opened the holes out to Ø1.2 mm.  A couple of the holes were elongated but nothing disastrous.

 

 

Through the week I had ordered a bunch of hardware which included a bunch of Ø1.0 mm nuts and bolts.  This seemed to fit the bill nicely - I was using 2 mm bolts before and they were just far too big.  1 mm doesn't sound like much but in this instance it made a big difference.  As you can probably tell from this photo, getting the nuts started on the thread was a bit challenging for an oversized oaf like myself.

 

 

Thankfully, I only need to get them on about half a thread or so and then I could use the tool which came with the hardware to snug them up nicely.  I had envisaged having to make my own tool to get the nuts tightened down, so finding the kit came with the tool was a nice surprise.

 

 

With just 6 of these 1 mm bolts in place the side frame was surprisingly secure.  Much more secure than I ever thought it would be.

 

 

For the curious of mind, this was my high tech way of securing the bolts in place while I gently lowered the side frame onto the chassis.   you can just about make out there the big issue I had to deal with - the fact that the holes I drilled straddled the top flange of the "C" channel I used in the chassis... as soon as the drill hit half brass, half air, it just wanted to wander out to the air side. 

I'm just putting the nuts and bolts in now to see how it stands up.  I need to remove the side frames for priming and painting, so I'll deal with the step issue at that time.

 

 

And now - with both side frames in place.  It's starting to look like something now.  Actually, it's starting to look very grubby and a bit mockit.   My greasy grubby mitts have rather mucked up the beautiful side frames that were delivered to me with such care.

This weekends job will be to get those side frames cleaned up and a first coat of primer on the outer surfaces.  That aside - this was a very refreshing moment for me... I can just about see a Pullman car sprouting from this after nearly three years of work.

 

 

and to give myself some further encouragement, I threw on a couple of bits for a dry fit....

 

 

The door is just a piece of scrap card I had lying about but it gives the general idea. 

 

 

Looking at the above, I think I may have made the return on the vestibule ends a tad too long - rather too long than too short. I may need to lose a millimeter or so off the width of the return to allow the door to fit properly. At least that is a straightforward task.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by hendie

[perdu]

Now those things of interest are becoming things of beauty

 

It really is an impressive model H, I was always interested in the modelling aspects obviously but now 'The Pullman Carriage' is becoming the interest instead

 

I know that sounds like waffle but I hope everyone understands what I am saying

 

True art coming through

 

 

Yes I think you need trim the vestibule ends a tad too, maybe only a tadlet  

[silver911]

Congratulations on reaching yet another milestone in the build.

Really pleased you have overcome so many issues, and can now, hopefully, push on with the build.

Agreed on the Vestibule end length, a mil sounds about right.

 

Regards prepping side frames, once cleaned, use some 'IPA' to wash them before priming and all should be good.

 

Respect

 

Ron

[Bigdave22014]

Looks good Hendie - I have a collection of those nut-spinners from when I made model locomotives in 7mm. Very useful.

 

I'll have to give you a "Stop & Examine" though... you've got a securing chain dragging on the ground. Tsk tsk.

[hendie]

8 hours ago, silver911 said:

Regards prepping side frames, once cleaned, use some 'IPA' to wash them before priming and all should be good.

 

that's already in the "plan" !

 

 

8 hours ago, Bigdave22014 said:

I'll have to give you a "Stop & Examine" though... you've got a securing chain dragging on the ground. Tsk tsk.

 

aha !   you must have missed my earlier post when I stated that I was still working on these.   I originally had the chains looping back and fixed in behind the chassis end beam, however, from photo's it appears that the chains are fixed on to the buffer casting.  I also noted that I made the chains too long.... so I am (sort of...) working on them, but since that's pretty boring work, I keep getting side tracked my more exciting stuff.  I really must make  a conscious effort to finish them off, along with the electrical connectors and some conduit still needs added.

But I'm glad I'm keeping you on your toes !

 

 

9 hours ago, perdu said:

I know that sounds like waffle but I hope everyone understands what I am saying

 

I'm quite adept at reading through waffle so I know what you're saying Bill - thanks.   Don't worry, there's still a bucket load more modeling before a Pullman is going to arise from the mess that is my workbench.

 

I just checked and it looks like I need to remove about 3 mm from the vertical returns on the vestibule ends.  It should be about 4 mm in width and fro some reason unbeknownst to this here modeler, I made them about 7 mm

[bentwaters81tfw]

Coming on leaps and bounds. Now, those led lights you are installing. I take it you will be wiring them up to the electrical connectors, so you can power them off the locomotive that you will have to build next?

[RichO]

Very nice hendie!  This is lookin' great.  

 

  I've heard that those real nuts and bolts are quit expensive, but look super good.  Keep 'em out where we can see them.

[TheBaron]

Hey. Will you look at that! What were once parts are now taking on a collective (and splendiferous) identity!

Miniature bolts? Egad. How incredibly satisfying.

On 01/09/2017 at 1:08 AM, hendie said:

managed to look remarkably like

In Latin, and you have a your motto.

 

[hendie]

19 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Now, those led lights you are installing.

 

I have to be careful as I think at some point in the distant past I committed to lighting this adventure.  I still need to bear that in mind as things are going together and I don't end up making an impossible job for myself.

 

18 hours ago, RichO said:

I've heard that those real nuts and bolts are quit expensive, but look super good.

 

The scale hardware parts were expensive, but did look good.  The ones I'm using here were cheap - I bought a spectacle repair kit from Amazon, - I'm not certain there are 1100 parts in it, but I'm not going to count them.  There's more than enough to do what I need.

 

[larchiefeng]

Looking good, I'm glad that using the hardware attachments worked for you. It seemed to make more sense than using glue to attach the long and somewhat heavy side panels to the frame. It also allows you to remove them to add or make adjustments as needed. 

I used threaded rod and bolts that I glued or soldered to the frame and then slipped the body panel over the fixed stud then, all I had to do was fiddle with getting the nuts on or off.

I know that it might be too late but, we use Model Motor Cars for most of the nuts, washers and bolt supplies.

[Sabrejet]

I never thought I'd be interested in 'just' a train carriage, but this build is enthralling. Great skills and a very impressive piece of scratch-building.

[Pete in Lincs]

Splendid progress old chap.

When can one book for dinner?

[hendie]

On 9/2/2017 at 1:39 PM, Pete in Lincs said:

When can one book for dinner?

 

after this weekends efforts.... not anytime soon Pete!

 

It's been one of those modeling sessions  hours  days  weekends.  Let's start with the good news.

 

Okay, that's over, let's continue with what else has been happening.  The side frames were given a coat of etch primer on the external faces.  That went reasonably well with the exception of a couple of small blemishes in the covering on both side frames.  I micro meshed those this morning and gave another coat of etch primer, then I caught a small sink mark where I had not filled with enough solder.  That was filled with some filler I had handy, then sanded back.  The side frames have now been given their last coat of etch primer and are sitting curing as I type.  I will leave those at least overnight before giving them a coat of primer type primer.

Actually, I'm off on business again this week so it may be next weekend before they get the primer coat.

All that being done, I am pretty happy with the side frames.  I also took the opportunity while I was rattle canning to spray some of the styrene side frame failures as test beds for the different paints.  I will coat these test pieces before I spray the side frames to ensure there is no reaction with the paints.

 

 

Now the vestibule ends.... those damn vestibule ends.  Aaarghhhh!  I don't know what it is about them but they seem determined to fight me all the way, and back again!   After my last post, I marked up the ends for the material to be removed - it was about 2.5 mm give or take from each upright.  I had allowed 19 mm for the door opening when I should have allowed 21.5 mm.  The door itself is 19 mm but there's also a door jamb in there too.

 

 

This is how much needs to come off.  A simple enough job... place sandpaper on the bench then rub end vestibule back and forth to remove unwanted plastic.

 

 

Which all went far too well until I came to remove the masking tape - a whole bunch or primer and wotnot came off with it too.  Well, that's not particularly good or confidence inspiring is it?  Especially when I know I'll be masking that lot later.

 

 

So after considering the options, I took the decision to sand everything back to plastic again

 

 

On the face of it that also went well, until I realized that some of the wet from my wet and dry had got in behind the plastic and soaked into the wooden paneling - yes, you guessed it... another disaster.

At this point I almost considered asking my friends back at the machine shop to EDM me a set of vestibule ends, but sanity prevailed - in brass there would be six bends in each piece, and I know I'd need about a dozen attempts to try and get all the bends in the right place.  I'm sticking with what I have, and the de'il tak the hindmost !

 

 

Obviously, I know that water and thin sheets of absorbent wood don't go particularly well together.... I know that!  So why I didn't try to protect the paneling better is a question best left to ehrr... someone else, not me.

After messing about with it and trying to fix things it was obvious I had to go back to square one. Well, not quite square one but almost...

The main issue I had was that I had used rectangles of basswood as a spacer/strengthener between the outer wall and the paneling.  Now, because of the grain, it was good in one direction but not the other.  I needed a different material - 1 mm thick styrene.

The plastic could be rescued as could the main door beams so I cut out styrene spacers and glued them in position, as well as adding some other little blocks here and there to add strength.

 

 

The problem I face here - and I knew this one was coming is that we all know what happens when we glue two flat surfaces together with styrene cement... one of them ends up with sink marks.  At least this time I was prepared for that.  You can see one just at the angle near the left top of the gangway opening.  Overall, not too many sinks at all - much better then I anticipated.

 

 

So that's where I'm currently at with this purgatorial build.  I'll let that glue cure overnight before filling and sanding (yet again).

I'm surprised there's any plastic left on those vestibule ends after all the sanding they've endured.

 

I tackled a couple of small jobs, but gave up as my heart wasn't in it today.  I'm really focused on getting the side frames and vestibule ends painted and since they've been my nemesis for what seems like at least the last year, I need to get those defeated before I can move on.  I'm so close, but it appears that every time I get close, something falls out of the sky to give my butt a great big kick and bring me back down to earth again.

 

 

 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

You think you have problems. I'm back to beans on toast then?!

 

Commiserations, Hendie. I'm sure you'll get to grips with it.

Your time away will give you time to cool down and have a

good think to come up with a suitable plan of attack.

It always works for me, I spend miles at work driving, but 

actually thinking about what I'm going to do next time I model.

[perdu]

I've lost count of how many times I have awoken with the answer staring me in the mush

 

And it is so often exactly what I needed

 

Anyway, before I go to bed and waken up knowing what you need to

 

Did you use tube glue to bung the vestibular portals together or was there Tamiya Extra thin?

 

When I am a bit vulnerable I wipe the TamExThi on and let it  air dry, then afterwards give it another light wetting?

 

I find his pre-maturing helps it dry quickly and not let it go deep into the other piece of placky

 

It is almost always tube glue that causes me problems like that

 

I know  (we ALL know you will sort this one, hardly a problem at all)

[TheBaron]

Care keeps his watch in every old man’s eye, 
And where care lodges, sleep will never lie; 
But where unbruised youth with unstuff’d brain
Doth couch his limbs, there golden sleep doth reign

 

There's always some idiot who thinks that quoting Shakespeare will help isn't there?

 

It's another way of saying that I wish I had enough experience of materials to suggest a magic solution that would help.

 

Here's hoping you get unstuff'd as Will suggests and a path out of the thicket appears in due course hendie.

[RichO]

I'm with Pete here.  I drive deliveries between midnight and six in the mornings.  I sure seem to think a lot about how to fix the things I have messed up during the day.  

 

We all feel for you brother, so think on it a bit and take some time, it'll come to you, and you'll succeed brilliantly. 

[hendie]

Back from my travels once again and I managed to sneak downstairs for a few hours before SWMBO came home.

 

Since I only had an hour or two I didn't want to get into anything too deep.  I had started this job before I departed earlier this week - During my frequent photo reviews I spotted that the electrical boxes have some conduit running alongside the end of the chassis.  It was one of those small details that can easily be missed but once you see it, you know you have to do it.

Stainless steel wire was used to replicate the conduit...

 

 

Which was then painted up and had a few days curing while I was away.

 

 

So it was a relatively easy job to fit that today, and also to tidy up a few loose ends, namely, the cover panels on the electrical boxes, and the retaining chains for the buffer spacers/extenders or whatever they're called.  Just a few paint touch ups and that will be complete.

 

 

I had also spotted that I still had to add the airlines or vacuum pipes for the brakes.  A quick search around my scrap box yielded no results, but I did find some solder that was a good match for the thickness I was looking for.

I drilled out some Meng nuts to start the connector....

 

 

Then added some styrene tube, followed by some aluminum rivets. Can you see where I'm going with this ?

 

 

Then the valve was finished off with another Meng nut.  The dome head of the rivet was filed flat and a hole drilled in the end to accept a brass pin, around which I formed the levers that appear on these valves.

The front two are complete and the rear two are still in process.

 

 

A quick squirt of primer and you can get an idea of what they are going to look like in position.  I still have to make the brackets that they're mounted on along with the connector on the other end of the hose.

 

 

Small progress but enjoyable nonetheless.

 

 

 

[longshanks]

Tidy scratching !

 

Kev

[perdu]

Those small progresses arewhat makes these Hendie builds so exciting and vital

 

Great progresses to my eye, fabulous work

 

☺