Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage

[TheBaron]

8 minutes ago, hendie said:

I'm guessing this is a limitation of the media

Higher phase angles of light + diffusion/scattering qualities of decal transparency = limits to successful viewing angles here I think H.

 

Against a lighter background less of an issue of course but here with that rich chocolate ground, is going to be problematic as you say on larger areas. 

 

Wish I could say that  I had any expertise to draw on to help out here,  but my knowledge of dealing with such decal issues is far far below that of others like Heather.

 

I'm sure that the truly wise will ride forth to your assistance presently.

[Heather Kay]

28 minutes ago, hendie said:

The info that came with the transfers recommends Testors Dullcote so that confused me a bit.  Normally I use a gloss coat to seal in transfers and 'hide' the carrier film.

I think the Dullcote reference is a generic one for all Railtec transfers. Like you, I try to give a gloss coat for transfers to go on, and top coat with varnish appropriate to the model. 

 

Steve is quite amenable to questions in my experience. It may be worth emailing him with photos of what you’ve found to see if he has any ideas. 

 

All this Railtec talk has reminded me I might chat to him about some custom things for a plane project I have planned.  

[CedB]

Testors DullCote has saved me in the past - it really stops the light getting through to the silvered bit and it just brushes on. HTH.

[Bigdave22014]

"there is an orange line around the car just below the cant rail... something to do about electrical danger."

 

That's exactly what it is. It's an easy way of marking the safe working distance from the overhead power lines (25000V ac). Basically, neither you, or anything you are carrying should go above this line.

Strangely, the safety dept never picked up on the fact that if you stood in the loco door and stuck your head out it was above the orange line.....

[hendie]

On 9/22/2019 at 4:09 PM, TheBaron said:

Against a lighter background less of an issue of course but here with that rich chocolate ground, is going to be problematic as you say on larger areas. 

 

Indeed.  That is definitely going to cause me problems going forward. Why couldn't it have been a flat dull blue like BR ?

 

 

On 9/22/2019 at 4:18 PM, Heather Kay said:

It may be worth emailing him with photos of what you’ve found to see if he has any ideas. 

 

Thanks Heather.  I've emailed Steve so we'll see what he responds with.

 

 

On 9/22/2019 at 8:23 PM, CedB said:

Testors DullCote has saved me in the past

 

Ced, with such a high gloss finish I'm too scared to try a layer of dullcote. What will be, will be.  I guess.

 

 

On 9/22/2019 at 10:49 PM, Bigdave22014 said:

That's exactly what it is.

 

Thanks BigDave.  I got something right then.

 

 

From there, on to today's escapades.  I can forewarn you that I did actually get some of yer akchul real construction completed today - it seemed so strange!  To celebrate I took loads of photo's to bore you with and hopefully didn't miss anything important.

Starting with the vestibules, nicely glossed, completed wiv stickers n everyfink. (another strange feeling).  I also dug out bits and pieces salvaged from previous failed vestibule ends that must have been a couple of years ago by now.

 

 

First job of the day was to remove anything from the vestibule which wasn't very vestibulic. Namely, the passageway entrance.  In a rare moment of planning ahead, when I originally did these, I had the passageway entrance scored in the plastic but not removed.  That made it a simple, if still somewhat scary, to gently score the ehrr... scores with a fresh blade.  The scores were on the reverse side from that shown here, so there was always a fear in my mind that some paint would decide to part company with the plastic leaving me lying on the concrete floor, whimpering like a child who's just had his lolly stolen.

Gently does it... a bit at a time.

 

 

And if the gods are willing, we end up with nothing... a space.  Just what we wanted!  Emptiness!

 

 

Next step was to gently file around the edges at an angle to cut back any hard edges of the paint - I didn't want my clumsy digits peeling back any of the brown stuff after all this time.

I'll deal with the small white edge later

 

 

Looks like we are finally getting somewhere on this build.  I had some clear acetate (or acrylic) sheet which I purchased who knows when, but when I looked at it from a "window" perspective, I wasn't completely happy.  Yes, it was nice and clear, but like most of those thin films, when it caught the light you could see small striations which showed the surface wasn't completely flat.  You had to look, but it was there.

Fortuitously, I had also bought some 0.030" Lexan (plexiglass) and this appeared to be much better - and it could still be cut with a blade.

 

 

The windows were glued in with GS-Hypo, then the interior was glued on top of that using E6000.  I had to make new interior panels but you already saw me doing that several years ago so no need to show again.

 

 

Finally, almost 5, yes 5 (count them!)  years into the build and we have a vestibule end complete with windows and interior paneling. 

 

 

I got so excited, I made two!

 

 

With that excitement over, it was time to mangle and destroy that perfect finish I had worked to hard to achieve.

(This is where the more exciting buildy stuff starts to appear.)

It's diaphragm time folks!

Since the diaphragms are going to be literally hanging off the end of the car, I thought it prudent to and provide some positive fixings for them, and not rely solely on glue, so, rough up the surface and start drilling some holes in it

 

 

Why ?

Well, I though using some brass rivets would come in handy to assist in positioning and fixing.

Once I had drilled the vestibule end, I transferred the holes to the diaphragm and popped in some brass rivets. 4 in total.

 

 

Next up were the bellows for the diaphragm.  If you have a really good memory, you will recall that I made these many years ago from the foil paper inside cigarette packets.  Surprisingly they have stood the test of time, though they did have a few cobwebs and loads of dust I had to clean off first.

 

 

Cut to size and glued to the diaphragm, they almost look convincing.  Well, convincing enough for me. - and that's what counts I guess.

 

 

The bellows and top cover had some superglue gel smushed over the surfaces (and superglue normal to hold the rivets in place), then the rivets were guided into their mating holes on the vestibule end and the whole shebang clamped together.

The s/g gel gave me some wiggle time to position the diaphragm relative to the doorway.

 

 

Are we there yet ?

'Fraid not. Still more gubbinses to attached.  Strangely, for me at least, I managed to find things I had made a year or two back without too much trouble.  Normally my 'safe' places go walkabout the moment I turn my back.

Anyways, there are some electrical wotnots to be added.  Sorry for the poor photo, but you can see the small roundish thing just below the window, one on each side of the doorway.  There is a small tube protruding from the bottom end - that will get some electrical cable and a plug when I get around to it.

 

 

Next, another electrical power socket thingy.  Things are really starting to take shape now.  It's amazing what a splash of color can do to a build.

 

 

and there we have an almost complete vestibule end 'cept for some cable and a plug, and a few other bits n pieces.

you also get to see some nice greasy fingerprints all over the place.

 

 

Warning: and photo's after this point are completely gratuitous and posted for purely selfish reasons.  - 'cos I took them.

 

So what does it look like in situ then I hear you ask?

I really should have stuck on a sideframe or two to take these shots, but that would have meant tidying up my workbench and putting tools and stuff away, so no side frames I'm afraid... just use your imagination.

 

 

 

 

 

 

that's all for the time being folks.  See you at the next stop

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CedB]

9 minutes ago, hendie said:

... just use your imagination.

I imagine that looks… perfect  

[TheBaron]

You have ebullient vestibules!

That last photo is absolutely compelling in terms of how your work has caught appearances so well.

Simply stunning H.

[perdu]

Just wonderrful

[hendie]

Question and @Bigdave22014 for @Heather Kay

 

The PassComm, or Emergency Brake or maybe they are the same thing - I'm talking about the mechanism just to the right of the diaphragm which stops just below the orange electrical line and juts out past the side of the car with a small red butterfly thing.  (can you tell I'm an engineer?)  I'm assuming the red butterfly thingy rotates thru 90° when the emergency cord is pulled - as an indicator to the guard?

 

 

I have photo's which show this arrangement as shown above on the right hand side as you look straight on to the vestibule.   I also have photo's which show another slightly different arrangement on the left hand side of the diaphragm as you look straight at the vestibule end.  The photo's have been taken at different times through Pegasus' life though they appear to be at different ends of the car.

 

My question is:  Were these fitted to both ends at once ? or only one end ?

 

I am assuming only one end, but I don't have any photo's which prove that out.

 

***edit***

 

Aha, I think I have my answer... I found a photo where I can just see the red butterfly thing poking out of the side. 

So - they are only fitted to one end of the car but there is a mechanism on both sides of the diaphragm. - That makes sense.

 

but feel free to join in and let me know if I've got anything wrong

 

***edit^2***

 

'nuther question.  There is a vertical pipe running up beside the diaphragm - this tube present on both sides of the diaphragm ?  My photo's seem to indicate so

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by hendie

[Heather Kay]

I think you have it.

 

I found a pic of the equivalent of the pass comm gear on a Mk1, which pretty closely followed the systems used in the Big Four coach designs. On the later Mk2 design, the gear was hidden inside the bodywork. The flag rods on the Mk1 have a series of cranks to carry the rotating motion up and over the gangway, but below the canvas cover on top. As the gangways on the Pullman coaches are the same, I suspect it did similar things - though you have reference photos to help you of what you’re trying to recreate.
 

BR Mk1 details by Heather Kavanagh, on Flickr

 

In case you want to know how it works: as you noted, the butterfly flag at each end rotates from horizontal to vertical through 90 degrees so it becomes visible to the guard should the communication cord be pulled in the carriage. The flag identifies which vehicle has had the emergency. The box on the end of the coach with the flag rods passing through is connected to both the vacuum and air brake pipes at the end of the coach under the floor. Pulling the communication cord - if memory serves - causes  a dip in the brake pressure which shows in the engine driver's cab so they can apply the brakes on the whole train. On modern systems I suspect it activates a lamp and/warning buzzer as well.

 

I hope that makes sense.  

Edited September 29, 2019 by Heather Kay
Wrong image, found a better one.

[hendie]

Thanks Heather - makes perfect sense and gives me another set of greeblies to add 

[perdu]

It don't get no easier do it?

 

Hendiean : definining intricate perfection in approach and execution

 

Hendiean

 

👍

[Bigdave22014]

PASSenger COMMunication apparatus. Or emergency cord/brake/whatever.

When you pulled the chain, it opened a valve to let air in (vacuum brake) or out (air brake) to apply the brakes. The red indicators showed the guard which coach the cord had been pulled and by turning it back allowed him to reset the system.

Nowadays, an orange light flashes on the outside of the coach and you can easily see the handle that was pulled. I understand (after my time) that with some trains the computer system tells you which coach before you leave the cab, and you can speak to them using an intercom. It also allows you a temporary overrride to allow you to stop the train in a suitable location (in a tunnel or on a viaduct is not the best place......).

 

The pipe running up the side of the diaphragm connects the system to the brake pipe system.

[Bandsaw Steve]

23 hours ago, perdu said:

It don't get no easier do it?

 

Hendiean : definining intricate perfection in approach and execution

 

Hendiean

 

👍

Nahhh.... I think ‘the Hendiean’ sounds more like a Geological epoch - which is about as long as this build is taking! 🤪

 

 

Ahhh I crack myself up sometimes...

Never mind me Hendie, take your time, the result will be worth the wait.

 

[Brandy]

Nice vestibules H! Great to see something definite regarding overall progress too.

5 years?

Yikes!

 

Ian

[hendie]

On 10/1/2019 at 7:33 AM, Bandsaw Steve said:

Nahhh.... I think ‘the Hendiean’ sounds more like a Geological epoch - which is about as long as this build is taking!

 

Oi!  Haven't you got an Avro to be getting on with ?

 

 

On 9/30/2019 at 7:35 AM, perdu said:

Hendiean : definining intricate perfection in approach and execution

 

Not quite Bill, read on...

 

I wrote a few posts back that the gods seemed to be smiling on me - I almost wrote in that very same post that things were going so well, those same gods must be planning something nasty for me in the near future.  I didn't post that in case I jinxed myself.

 

I needn't have bothered - the gods dumped on me yet again - Look to the bottom right of the vestibule, just to the left of the electrical wozzit

Damn!!!!

 

 

Some glue must have seeped around the sides of the wooden paneling and sucked the bejesus out of the styrene as it cured.   As you can imagine, I was less than pleased when I discovered that.

After cursing and screaming I quietened down a bit and thought what do I do here ?   I can try and repair it, or is there an alternative?

Well, there may be an alternative i.e. hiding it, or at least some of it.

The PassCom which we've been discussing recently has some vertical pipery running up the vestibule just to the side of the diaphragm.  One of the sinks runs vertically and would for the most part, be hidden behind said pipe.

 

 

I'm still undecided whether to repair or just move on.  I'm really not sure what to do here.

Anyways, moving on for the mo' I thought that pipe arrangement (I had made many moons ago) looked a bit oversized, so attempted another, this time from brass rod.

This looks much better, and to my eye, more in scale

 

 

Still avoiding any decision as to repair, ignore, or throw out the window, I made another few bits and pieces for the PassCom mechanical stuff.  (It kept my mind of the sinking issue)

 

 

Those of you daft enough to follow this thread will know of my inherent fear of painting, and how many times I have stripped this thing back to metal in the quest for a decent paint job. I now have that decent paint job, but there's more - I also need to have a very good gloss coat on top.

I managed to get a decent gloss coat months ago, and micromeshed it back (I can't for the life of me remember why), but now I have some transfers to apply, I need to get that gloss coat back in place.

I've tried many things and had many fails.  However, after much to-ing and fro-ing I decided to use Testors Wet Gloss - it gets great write ups and seems to be the best thing for a really shiny gloss coat. The downside is that it comes in small 3oz aerosols.

I had used Alclad Aqua gloss on the vestibule ends, and to be honest, I am really going off Alclad - except for their grey primer.  Every Alclad I have used has had issues with durability.  The chrome and other metals seem to wear off as soon as I touch them.  The black primer I used on the Wessex does not appear very durable and even light masking is pulling the black primer off.  The grey primer on the other hand sticks like the proverbial to a blanket, and I love it.

However, back to the Aqua Gloss - it lays down nicely but I find that after handling, that shiny gloss disappears and leaves a dull cruddy looking surface - which I had completely forgotten about when I sprayed the vestibule ends.

So, back to the Testors Wet Gloss... I had one part used aerosol left and decided to use it for the side frames - they are going to get a lot of handling once coated and the last thing I needed was for the gloss to disappear under handling with my greasy sweaty mitts.

Lots of preparation - polythene everywhere to keep dust away - a good wash and clean of the side-frames, and micromeshing of the orange stripe to remove any hard edges.

and back to gloss coat!!!

 

 

Except - for some reason, one side frame appeared to get lots of particulate caught up in the spraying.  Dammit!    The other side went much better and the finish was perfect

 

 

except for this little bugger.   ARghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!  Of course, one little stray hair(?) couldn't have landed anywhere where it would be covered by a transfer could it ? Oh no, it had to land smack in the middle of a nice cream colored panel.

 

 

So, two more aerosols ordered and two side frames to be rubbed down yet again.

 

I did get a new toy to play with - I have a few vices that can hold very narrow bits n bobs, but realized last week that I had nothing that could hold slightly thicker parts with any ease.

This proved to be very useful for holding some aluminum while I filed to shaped. A good investment.

 

 

So, at the end of play this weekend, I have a few electrical plugs and a few PassCom pieces painted up

 

 

This modeling malarkey is fun isn't it ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[perdu]

Yes

[harveyb258]

Absolutely!

[Svedberg]

I can't get enough. Honestly.

[TheBaron]

That's a big 10-4.

[Brandy]

Can that hair not be repaired with gentle removal (scalpel blade) and micromesh action? Surely worth a try, even if it entails a partial respray of the local area....

 

Ian

[hendie]

edit - double post nonsense

Edited October 13, 2019 by hendie

[hendie]

On 10/6/2019 at 5:33 PM, hendie said:

This modeling malarkey is fun isn't it ?

 

says I. 

then you all say

 

On 10/6/2019 at 8:36 PM, perdu said:

Yes

 

On 10/7/2019 at 5:08 AM, harveyb258 said:

Absolutely!

 

On 10/7/2019 at 9:21 AM, Svedberg said:

I can't get enough. Honestly.

 

On 10/11/2019 at 2:40 PM, TheBaron said:

That's a big 10-4.

 

Yer all wrong!!!   Wrong I tells ye!  WRONG!

ineffable proof coming a few lines down...

 

 

3 hours ago, limeypilot said:

Can that hair not be repaired with gentle removal (scalpel blade) and micromesh action? Surely worth a try, even if it entails a partial respray of the local area....

 

Ian

 

I didn't dare approach the side frame with a blade Ian - but gentle, if prolonged micro-meshing did get rid of the offending hair.

 

 

Today started well.

I woke up, which was a bonus I guess.  After that, things started going not so well.  And when I say not so well, I mean not well at all.  Which is really a bit of an understatement as things went downhill fast.  Drastically.  And when I say downhill I don't mean just a bit of a slope, I mean disastrous.  Bad.  Really bad.  So bad I don't think I've had a badder modeling day.  It would actually be quite funny if it wasn't so disastrously disastrous and not very good at all.

Read on dear readers...

 

Lets begin with something that wasn't completely disastrous then.  Transfers.

I decided to bite the bullet today and see if I could get some of those transfers I'd wait so long for actually on the model.  Out came the drawings and out came the reference photo's.   Measure twice, cut once they say - so I paid very careful attention to the locations and measurements.  The first transfers on were the scrolls just below the cant rail.

Masking tape was used to to provide locations.  Dook 'em in water and slabber some micro-1 on the side frame in anticipation.

In the end, the scrolls were not too difficult to apply though you have to be really careful.  The transfers are wonderful quality but very delicate, and even micro-1 will start to dissolve the carrier film if you leave it too long.  So, scrolls were positioned gently and when I was happy with the location, were pressed down with a damp kitchen towel.  The same procedure was applied to the Pullman crest.

 

 

I did a test piece just prior to this and found that when I applied micro-2 the transfer wrinkled (as expected) but some of the wrinkles did not flatten out... so so far I have not applied micro-2 to the side-frame.  I'm just too scared!

Same process at the opposite end.

 

 

Apologies for the out of focus shot, - this was meant to show how flat the transfers were with no air bubbles or wrinkles.  Trust me - there's no air bubbles or wrinkles!  Honest guv.

 

 

So far so good.

 

 

Now it was time for the big test - the name plate!  This is just over 3 inches long - 80mm in new money.

After 4 successful applications, my confidence was building.  You (me!) just had to be careful.  Sounds easy - right?

 

 

So how'd it go then ?

Well, how's this?

 

 

Looky here.. all nice and flat - no air bubbles, no wrinkling. Looks good n'est pas?

 

 

Well, apparently my inner modeler did not think so.  I spotted a slight, very slight curve towards the end of the SUS and decided to try and rectify it.

 

Bugger!

 

Wrecked the transfer I did - completely.  Well, it was lucky I had two printed on my test sheet wasn't it?

Well, I should have had three printed as I wrecked the second one while applying it.  I'm sure frustration was creeping in and had something to do with it.  I should have stepped back and gone for a walk or something, but no... I ploughed ahead and messed it up.

At least I learned something - I think I tried to remove the second transfer from the backing sheet too early and it stretched a little bit... but I did have some success with the other transfers which was encouraging.

 

But now we come to the howler of the year.  No, the howler of the decade, indeed, the howler of my entire modeling career.  A howler that make Fly look like a quality supplier!

Take a ganders at the photo below.  Notice anything strange ?  Out of place ? Simply wrong?  No ?

(okay, I'll forgive most of you as you are not familiar with trains for the most part, and Pegasus in particular).  But, believe me - there is something wrong.  Badly wrong.

I've been working on this damn car for around 5 years now, and I have handled and worked these side frames for several of those years.  I've painted, stripped, painted, stripped ad infinitum and I completely missed it all these years... until today that is. 

 

 

 

dammit!

 

dammit!

 

dammit!

 

dammit!dammit!dammit!

 

Here... this photo may help clarify things a tad.... notice anything now ?

 

 

Window ?

The small window ?   Sitting by itself over there on the left?   

See where it is located in relation to the end of the side-frame?

 

Yes, he (me) says sheepishly... it's in the wrong darn place isn't it ?   How on earth did I get that wrong?  And why did I never notice it until today of all days?

I could leave it as is - as that window is in the kitchen area - but ... I'LL KNOW IT'S WRONG!!! and all you do too now.

 

So I gave up modeling for the day and I'm off up north tomorrow for another week.  

I shall have to mull this over, but I can see that I will need to try and call in favors and have another side frame made out of brass - this time with the windows in the right location. 

I cannot unsee that which I have seen. - though why I couldn't have seen it three years ago is beyond me.  Bugger.  Is all I can say.

 

 

yours sheepishly and somewhat very, very embarrassingly

 

Hend the crap draftsman (though it's just as well I did it right on the real thing or that really would have been embarrassing!  not to mention, a career defining moment!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CedB]

Oh dear. Sad face. Sympathy and manly hugs matey. 

That said I still can’t see why it’s wrong? Ah, wait, the vestibules need to go on the end... right. 

I can see how that might have gone wrong now and I must say it’s an easy mistake, but frustrating. 

 

Have a walk about out and stay away from the bench until your ‘throw it at the wall’ feelings are fully controlled. It will get sorted, I’m sure. 

[TheBaron]

13 minutes ago, hendie said:

Hend the crap draftsman (though it's just as well I did it right on the real thing or that really would have been embarrassing!  not to mention, a career defining moment!)

Away to feck ya big loon: I feel the pain but it's the issues hidden in plain view that we all know are the least conspicuous sometimes.

 

No comfort in that I know but rest assured  H if I had your level of skills and patience I'd be kinder to myself over the odd descent from customary perfections.

 

Few days up North to clear the head'll be a tonic. Go to a restaurant and get drunk if needs be and watch out for polar bears.