Scratch Build of 1951 Pullman Carriage

[JB*]

An extremely interesting build, looks beautiful already. We had two of these in Sunderland that were used as a restaurant for years, left to rot to be fair and then sold off to someone a few years ago. No idea where they are at now of if they are even in use any more, was a real shame.

[hendie]

On 4/25/2019 at 6:14 AM, JB* said:

was a real shame.

 

Sadly that happened to a lot of them.   Pegasus was lucky in that it had some historical significance in being the last one of it's type ever built.  That plus the fact that a rail enthusiast with plenty of pocket change wanted to see it back on the tracks again meant that it got a new lease of life.

I'd like to think that given the circumstances - having to meet the then current rail standards which essentially meant we had to completely destroy the original body, that we accomplished a very sympathetic restoration, fully in keeping with the original design intent. 

I only wish I had the chance to travel on it one day

[NickD]

On 22/04/2019 at 20:00, hendie said:

 

Hendie,

 

Thoroughly enjoyed both your ongoing builds. Looking good in the above pick. Getting bench envy about your unnaturally tidy workshop. Also not sure I understand how you intend to hitch Pegasus to the Wessex!

 

Keep up the good work

Nick

Edited April 26, 2019 by NickD
Missed critical word out in last sentence! Doh!

[Terry Bye]

On 25/04/2019 at 11:14, JB* said:

An extremely interesting build, looks beautiful already. We had two of these in Sunderland that were used as a restaurant for years, left to rot to be fair and then sold off to someone a few years ago. No idea where they are at now of if they are even in use any more, was a real shame.

JB in response, I have followed the Pullman cars that were located at Seaburn from their arrival in the late 1980's on site to their removal two years ago (35mm Colour Slides). I can advise that only the BR Mk1 coach named "CHRISTINE" was scrapped on site due to its condition. As to the three Pullman cars "SAPPHIRE", "ROSALIND" & "PADUA". They left Seaburn by road haulage to Barrow Hill, Chesterfield. Following assessment of each cars condition they were then moved to the East Kent Railway for restoration. I am advised that the long term future for the cars will see them relocated on completion of each restoration to the restored Folkestone Harbour Station as static Restaurants.

Coincidentally, I am currently scanning "The Pullman Lodge" Seaburn slides to 'jpg' format.  

[Bigdave22014]

16 hours ago, NickD said:

Hendie,

 

Thoroughly enjoyed both your ongoing builds. Looking good in the above pick. Getting bench envy about your unnaturally tidy workshop. Also not sure I understand how you intend to hitch Pegasus to the Wessex!

 

Keep up the good work

Nick

That's why "Walter" has a winch! Just attach it to the drawhook on Pegasus. Simples! 🤓

[AVS1998]

3 hours ago, Terry Bye said:

JB in response, I have followed the Pullman cars that were located at Seaburn from their arrival in the late 1980's on site to their removal two years ago (35mm Colour Slides). I can advise that only the BR Mk1 coach named "CHRISTINE" was scrapped on site due to its condition. As to the three Pullman cars "SAPPHIRE", "ROSALIND" & "PADUA". They left Seaburn by road haulage to Barrow Hill, Chesterfield. Following assessment of each cars condition they were then moved to the East Kent Railway for restoration. I am advised that the long term future for the cars will see them relocated on completion of each restoration to the restored Folkestone Harbour Station as static Restaurants.

Coincidentally, I am currently scanning "The Pullman Lodge" Seaburn slides to 'jpg' format.  

 

I went to see the Pullmans at Shepardswell last year with the Pullman Society. They were in quite the state then, hopefully they've been brought into a new epoch of existence (saying 'lease of life' just feels so overdone.) For those who are interested, I do have some photos from that day (I'm afraid I'm new to the site and the 'insert other media' button wouldn't allow me to attach jpegs etc). What I'm curious to see especially is whether they'll be shopped out in regular Umber and Cream, or, seeing as there are three cars, the company who owns them might be interested in painting them in all three livery iterations; Lake, Old Standard (cream to the cantrail) or New Standard. I think it would pay dividends to have all three, to demonstrate the history behind them. 

 

This project is fantastic, I've been watching with some time now and really enjoyed watching your work, mistakes especially. I 'bodge' Pullmans in 4mm scale, and so seeing your techniques, and seeing where they go right (or wrong) has been really quite useful to scale down. Using veneers to represent the panelling inside is inspired! I appreciate your dedication to learning new skills and trying new materials, especially. 

 

Pegasus will look smashing when it's finished - keep up the good work. 

 

- Alexandra 

[hendie]

1 hour ago, AVS1998 said:

This project is fantastic, I've been watching with some time now and really enjoyed watching your work, mistakes especially. I 'bodge' Pullmans in 4mm scale, and so seeing your techniques, and seeing where they go right (or wrong) has been really quite useful to scale down. Using veneers to represent the panelling inside is inspired! I appreciate your dedication to learning new skills and trying new materials, especially. 

 

Thanks Alexandra, that's really encouraging to hear.  We have a saying at work... if you're not making mistakes, you're not trying hard enough.  in a lot of cases that's very true, especially in model making. Trying new skills and new techniques is all part of the game.  I still have a long way to go on this build so I'm sure there will be plenty more mistakes for everyone to enjoy. 

 

 

17 hours ago, NickD said:

Getting bench envy about your unnaturally tidy workshop.

 

That's only 'cos I swept everything on to the floor just prior to taking those shots!

 

Well, this week is a bit of a pig... incredibly busy at work, and have to work today as well, just trying to play catch up with the business.  However I did manage to get some brief work done during the odd lunch break.  More of an experiment really. 

Going back a few posts to the grab handles I made for the doors.  I wasn't overly happy with them and they take an inordinate amount of time to make each one, and trying to get each of the end shapes identical is very frustrating.

I ran over in my mind all the different ways I could try and make them - carving, resin molding etc, before I thought about 3D printing.

I have absolutely no idea if this will work, and I might be at the hairy edge of the capabilities here but thought it was worth a go.

Now there's no way (to my limited knowledge) a full handle could be printed at this scale and be of good enough quality to be used, but I'm only struggling with the very end of the handle, where it mounts on to the frame, so...

after several false starts I arrived at this shape.

 

 

Sorry no currency as scale reference but this part is 1.25 mm wide x 3 mm long x around 1.75 mm high

then while I was doing that I thought I may as well try and see what a door handle would look like.

 

 

I have simplified it slightly but I think it's worth a shot.  This time dimensions are 5mm long x 1.5 mm wide and I can't remember how much the handle projects.

I then threw those onto a single base and uploaded it to Shapeways.  If the door handles work, I'll order another batch separately

 

 

 

 

For around ten bucks I thought it was worth a try.  Nothing ventured and all that

 

The door handle was created by referencing a photo of one of the original parts so we'll see how good I was when the part arrives.  I may have to tweak a few things and try again. That should be here within a week or so.

[Brandy]

Got to love Shapeways for the extra flexibility that 3d printing gives us in creating our own, previously impossible, parts!

 

Ian

[Pete in Lincs]

7 hours ago, hendie said:

 

It looks great, but my first thought was, Ooh, nice looking orbital thruster! I'll take a dozen but four times bigger!

 

[hendie]

Modeling suspended for a few days again.  Yet another life event sucker punched us last night when our first cat, Ninja passed away just shy of 6 years old.

 

 

Rest in peace Ninja 

[perdu]

RIP

[JB*]

On 27/04/2019 at 07:25, Terry Bye said:

JB in response, I have followed the Pullman cars that were located at Seaburn from their arrival in the late 1980's on site to their removal two years ago (35mm Colour Slides). I can advise that only the BR Mk1 coach named "CHRISTINE" was scrapped on site due to its condition. As to the three Pullman cars "SAPPHIRE", "ROSALIND" & "PADUA". They left Seaburn by road haulage to Barrow Hill, Chesterfield. Following assessment of each cars condition they were then moved to the East Kent Railway for restoration. I am advised that the long term future for the cars will see them relocated on completion of each restoration to the restored Folkestone Harbour Station as static Restaurants.

Coincidentally, I am currently scanning "The Pullman Lodge" Seaburn slides to 'jpg' format.  

 

Thanks for that update mate. I had no idea where they had went to and had forgotten about them until this thread. it's pleasing to know they will be restored and reused, beautiful things! The whole area where they used to be is being demolished and houses/business units being built iirc. Been a few months since i was last home.

 

Thanks for the update and gl on the build.

[hendie]

I managed to use modeling as a bit of a diversion to take my mind off recent events.  Not really a lot of time but enough to keep me sane (for this week at least)

 

A while back it was the end vestibules that seemed never ending, now it appears that it's doors that are never ending.  After spending an eon, or at least a bit of an eon getting doors ready I finally remembered that I had considered, maybe not quite planned, but had certainly considered having a door open at each end so I could see inside in my dotage. Ergo, I spent at least one modeling session creating new doors and frames.  It wasn't as simple as just cutting the door out of an already made assembly as the doors themselves are slightly wider than the surrounding framing - as the doors close into a rebate behind the frame.  And stoopid old me decided to replicate that feature.  I offer to you proof of my stupidity...

 

 

Then my addled grey matter remembered that I also need a second "door" to fit onto the rear side of the actual door.  Why ?  I hear you ask... well, my plan is to sandwich some clear styrene between the real door and the dummy door to form the window. It seemed an awful lot easier to stick a false door on the back of the window than it was to try and cut out the oval window shape with anything approaching accuracy.  Here be a primed door forest.  There's more doors hiding in the background but you get the general idea.

 

 

Now onto things exciting, or perhaps not quite so boring...

 

On 4/27/2019 at 7:57 AM, hendie said:

That should be here within a week or so.

 

Color me impressed... Shapeways delivered the part in under a week. Okay I did pay $2.50 or summat to expedite, but all in all I consider it a good deal.

Go up a couple of stairs to post 957 and you'll see the 3D model.  Look under my finger here and you'll see the printed part, all of nearly 50 mm long'ish and decidedly smallish.

 

 

Here, is this any better ?  To be honest I was completely blown away when I saw that the print did actually capture some detail ( the print captured more than the camera is capable of capturing apparently).  Although I had thrown some detail onto the model I didn't really have high hopes of seeing that on the final part, maybe a suggestion of detail but certainly not as much as I was seeing here.

 

 

I got all excited and threw some primer (Alclad) on it

 

 

and on close up it looks pretty awful.  Well, maybe not quite awful, but I wasn't completely gobsmacked.  Still considering the size we're looking at here - that door handle is 1.5 mm wide, or was it 1.25 mm?

 

 

Though it looks a bit better if I hold the camera slightly further away...

Those bits hanging off the lower edges isn't dust or any form of hendie droppings - it's where the print ended due to the print orientation.  No chance of being able to clean them up but I think they'll disappear in the final product.

 

 

But to give you a real idea of scale here I included portions of my aged and decrepit digits for comparison.   Let's be honest here, those parts may not have the most perfect detail in the world, but I wouldn't stand a chance in Hades of being able to make a number of handles or any other object for that matter, that small and identical in size and features. 

 

 

But the real proof is in the clootie dumplin' right?

I let the alclad primer dry for nearly all of three or four minutes before firing some gloss black acrylic on.  Similarly that dried for only a few minutes before I fired on some alclad chrome... count to ten.... fire on some alclad aqua clear.

Definitely not the way to do things, but I only had limited time and I really wanted to see how it was going to turn out.

Pretty good I think though it's ridiculously difficult to take photo's of a chrome finish.

 

 

So here's the custard to go with the clootie dumplin'.... How does it look in place I wonder? 

Just a dry fit shown here - the doors still have to be micro meshed, given a second coat of umber, then micro meshed again before clear coating, which will really darken the brown down.

 

 

Well, I am very impressed with that.   I really wasn't sure how it would turn out and it was a shot in the dark, but I am very pleased with the result.  I don't like to 3D print just for the sake of it and I prefer to scratch build when at all possible, but there are times - like this - where 3D printing is invaluable.

 

Okay, that's the door handle experiments taken care of.  The grab rail escutcheon (?) wasn't so successful though it shows promise.  I have a couple of ideas on how to modify the escutcheon to have a better chance of using it though I'm going to be really struggling for time over the next few weeks, but I'll try and keep plugging away at this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bandsaw Steve]

Looking really good Hendie. I should pop over to this thread more often because it’s always an entertaining and educational read.

 

Hope life stops throwing those curveballs at you soon! 

 

[JeroenS]

Those handles look very good once chromed and installed. 

[CedB]

Great doors and handles hendie, they look pretty amazing!  

[perdu]

The guys are of course, right

The handles especially are things of awe inspiring beauty

Escutcheons?

I imagine attention from a small drill will give you the ability to bung a rail in them

 

Lovely work here

 

I hope everything else settles down for you, no fun dealing with the cr*p life sends us is it?

 

[Brandy]

Great job on the 3d stuff Hendie. Therein lies the final detailing needed to make this one really stand out.

 

Ian

[Kingswear1]

Super modelling!

[TheBaron]

Abso-blooming-lewtly gorgeous work H. Shows just how well 3d printing can add a richness to the mix of crafts. I'm much impressed by the results you get from your work being handled by Shapeways.

 

Pierre: 'Qu'est-ce que tu think about them handles Jean-Paul?'

Jean-Paul: 'Le Blimey! Ils sont les gonads de la chien!'

[hendie]

On 5/2/2019 at 11:57 PM, Bandsaw Steve said:

I should pop over to this thread more often because it’s always an entertaining and educational read.

 

As soon as you've done that can you pop over to your own threads too please?   I haven't seen any Avroing or Carpathianing for weeks. What am I supposed to do with my Sunday mornings?

 

On 5/3/2019 at 12:09 AM, JeroenS said:

Those handles look very good once chromed and installed

 

On 5/3/2019 at 12:39 AM, CedB said:

Great doors and handles hendie, they look pretty amazing!

 

On 5/3/2019 at 3:55 AM, perdu said:

The handles especially are things of awe inspiring beauty

 

On 5/3/2019 at 10:13 AM, limeypilot said:

Great job on the 3d stuff Hendie. Therein lies the final detailing needed to make this one really stand out.

 

On 5/3/2019 at 4:30 PM, Kingswear1 said:

Super modelling!

 

On 5/4/2019 at 2:43 PM, TheBaron said:

 Ils sont les gonads de la chien!'

 

Thanks guys, you are too kind.

 

 

 

sometimes.

 

 

 

 

I'm just popping in for a flying visit with the teensiest of updates.  More to prove that things are still progressing even if at snail's pace.

I'm off up north for another few days starting tomorrow, and would you believe American Airlines have only gone and stopped flying to Erie from Philly a week or two ago.   I make that trip 7 or 8 times a year at least.  Erie was my most favoritist airport in the world.  It's tiny and unlike other airports isn't a complete PITA to get through.  From arrival to check in to through security takes less than 5 minutes.

Soddin' airlines.  AA's alternative route involves tripling the cost, tripling the flight time, and adding a stopover by flying in the opposite direction for the first hour..  

I could have flown to Buffalo but total traveling time is at least 6 hours on a good day. 

You can drive to Erie from where I am in about 7 or 8 hours and don't have to deal with airports or security.  -   So, I thought I was being smart and rented a car instead as I am traveling with someone and thought we could share driving duties... then realized on Friday morning that as my traveling buddy is a contractor, he won't be insured to drive the car.  AAAArghhhhhhhhh

 

Anyhoos, enough of my griping.

Okay, I know this shot is boring but it's a milestone, albeit a very minor milestone. A milestone nonetheless.

All the parts you see there have been (since you last saw them...) micro-meshed, painted, micro-meshed and painted again.  They are now waiting on their very last final micro-meshing before clear coating - unless I micro-mesh through to the primer in which case they'll have to go through the same process again.  again.

 

 

While I am waiting on that lot to fully cure, well, let's be honest... I won't be touching them until next weekend at the earliest... I started another proof of concept for yet more hardware.  For 'proof of concept' read 'can I actually make it?'

In addition to two vertical grab rails and a horizontal grab rail mounted on the front (outside) of the doors, inside the doors is an "H" rail, which is visible through the oval window.  I hummed and hawed between trying the H rail with two long vertical pieces and three shorter horizontal pieces to form the H, or one longer horizontal piece with four shorted vertical pieces. Either way, it ended up with essentially two soldered joints, but I opted for the longer horizontal piece with four verticals somehow convincing myself that it would have greater structural integrity, or at least have slightly  less chance of falling apart in my cumbersome handling methods (i.e. using my fingers!)

 

 

Once the soldered joints were cleaned up, I pinched the ends of each length in the vice to flatten them - supposed to represent the mounting flanges, then followed that up with a quick blast with Alclad chrome.  The alclad was straight onto the brass - no primer

I may need to tweak the horizontal dimensions slightly but I think that method should work

 

 

To be honest, I think the alclad chrome is a bit too chintzy for my liking.  It's too bright imo and looks very much looks chrome on plastic.  On that shot above there's no clear coat on the alclad.  I shall have to experiment with semi matt and mat finishes to see what can dull down the alclad to look more like 'real' chrome.

 

I also revisited my earlier solid modeling, in particular, the end pieces for the grab handles.   I had one of those 'doh! moments at work and realized I was making things unnecessarily difficult for myself with the current design.  If I modeled only the end piece, that meant I had to cut the brass rod at the correct length on the angle - a lot more difficult than it sounds. If the angle isn't right, the whole thing will look wonky.  If the length of the angled end isn't spot on, the whole rail will not sit properly on the frame.

After the realization, I simply modeled the end of the grab dandle to include the angled section -now all I have to do is cut the brass rod to the correct length and everything should fall into place.

 

 

 

and look something like this...

 

 

I think that the tapers as it meets the center section are a bit oversize, but I had issues with the edges cracking on the first set, so I had to add some meat to the part to minimize the chances of that happening again.   We'll see how these go.  If I need to I can reduce that taper slightly and have them reprinted.

 

Other than that, I am still waiting on transfers  - my second transfer guy has gone a bit quiet, however I knew he was extremely busy before I approached him.  Hopefully it won't turn out to be the same situation as my first attempt.

 

Until next time amigo's.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheBaron]

5 minutes ago, hendie said:

All the parts you see there have been (since you last saw them...)

Beautiful broon bits.

7 minutes ago, hendie said:

Either way, it ended up with essentially two soldered joints

Super soldered H, h.

7 minutes ago, hendie said:

The alclad was straight onto the brass - no primer

Interesting. I didn't know you could do that.

 

I love this Edwardian CAD work:

9 minutes ago, hendie said:

 

 

 

 

It looks like something from the V&A.

13 minutes ago, hendie said:

my second transfer guy has gone a bit quiet

He has a second transfer guy...

#morebleedingstaffthanDownton

 

Top update.

Safe travelling.

[Bandsaw Steve]

2 hours ago, hendie said:

 

   I haven't seen any Avroing or Carpathianing for weeks. What am I supposed to do with my Sunday mornings?

 

Dear Hendie,

 

I know that you have become unaccustomed to posting in the RFI pages but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t look at them occasionally. Carpathia has been in the maritime RFI section for 10 days now. 

I’ve been waiting for your incisive comments over there, and waiting, and waiting...

 

best you pop over and have a look young man! 🧐

 

[Bandsaw Steve]

I’m still waiting Hendie. You need to write a comment on Carpathia RFI.

 

It doesn’t need to be polite. I know you are Scottish, so whole-hearted abuse is both expected and acceptable- it’s the waiting I can’t stand! 😳

[hendie]

On 5/12/2019 at 5:03 PM, TheBaron said:

Interesting. I didn't know you could do that.

 

It gives a lovely finish too, but not very durable until you get a coat of clear something or other on top of it.

 

My Edwardian but not quite steampunk hardware arrived yesterday.  At first glance, things looked promising so as per my usual want I blundered straight into things.

 

 

A coat of alclad grey primer brought out the detail as you might be able to see in this oh so cruel close up.  I'm still blown away by the amount of detail that can be captured in the printing process.

Even greater is the fact that all things considered, it really is an inexpensive addition to the arsenal when needed.  I'm already planning some further printing excursions for small parts that would be a nightmare to try and manufacture by manual means, especially when you have multiples of the same thing. 

 

 

So what does it look like I hear you ask ?  Well... here's a sneak peek.  In the foreground we have the new grab handle and an original all brass affair at the rear.  While the rear one doesn't look too bad, trying to get 8 of them looking identical was just too much for an old codger like me.

 

 

The assemble process began by painting the printed parts gloss black, then adding the brass rod.  Opposite handles were then cut from the bank and added to the other end of the rod.  Very fiddly, and even although I thought I had printed plenty, I only just made 8 sets (after grubbing around on the floor for those escapees from the tweezer flinger)

 

 

One other thing I did with the printed version which I couldn't really do with the all brass version was to include an offset.  Original brass on left and new gizmo on right.

 

 

Here you can see why I added the offset.  The door frame is very narrow, and had the grab handles protruded perpendicular to the door frame, there would have been no room available to actually grab the darned thing as it would be almost flush with the side-frame.  (btw I am using my spare test door for this, the real doors are a little bit better)

I'm not cheating... honest... the 1:1 has these handles offset too, for the very same reason.

 

 

The Broons got micro-meshed but unfortunately, I was a bit too aggressive with the pads and I had some primer creep through in a few places, so it's back for another brooning for most of the parts.

 

 

While the broons were off to the But 'n Ben for a curing, I decided to proceed with more of the handles.  On Pegasus there are a mixture of chrome handles and brass handles - depending upon which part of the carriage you are in.  The dining area for example is all brass hardware, while in the bar area, it's all chromed.

I mixed up some testors brass and gave it a squirt.  This macro shot shows that even after primer and top coat, it's still possible to see the detail.  Did I mention I was impressed?

The brass is a bit light for my liking so I may investigate other brands - I wonder if alclad do a brass finish ? (yes they do...)

 

 

But the proof of the pudding is in the eating  dinette.  Even though the brass finish is a little light it still looks pretty decent against the mahogany background.

 

 

Then to finish off for today, here's a shot of a fully chromed grab handle in situ.  Y'know... I think that's going to work

 

 

Decals are still a hold up but I guess until I can get the brown all finished and gloss coated they're really not preventing me from moving forward.  Well, more sideways really, but at least the build is not at a standstill.