Flying Tigers roundels.

[Darby]

I have two versions of these. One, the Airfix has them all a light blue and the other, maybe pumpy Trumpy has two in dark and two in light. Given that the latter are rarely accurate or of any use. Can anybody shed any light please? It may be they differed between aircraft but I'm not an expert.

Cheers

Darbs

[tonyot]

Hiya Darbs,

I think that the lighter blue Chinese markings represent sun bleached colours? When the aircraft were crated up to be sent oversea`s I read somewhere that they had three sets of national markings supplied as decals in large brown paper bags for British, USAAF & Chinese markings.

Here is my Airfix Hawk model;

Note how Curtiss left a gap in the green camouflage for the upper wing roundels but that the AVG applied the Chinese markings further outboard.

Cheers

Tony

Edited December 7, 2014 by tonyot

[Mikey W]

You've got it bang on Tony. The lighter Chinese insignia would be for the upper wing as this is more exposed to the elements. Sun, sand, u/v, wind and rain would bleach the uppers much more than the unders. You also pegged the position of the insignia correctly. PLEASE fellow modellers DO NOT follow the Airfix box instructions. Again Tony, very nice build on your Hawk. Mikey W.

[Darby]

Cheers for that clarification. I will press on with the speed of a Fairey Battle in fourth gear

[BS_w]

Hiya Darbs,

I think that the lighter blue Chinese markings represent sun bleached colours? When the aircraft were crated up to be sent oversea`s I read somewhere that they had three sets of national markings supplied as decals in large brown paper bags for British, USAAF & Chinese markings.

Here is my Airfix Hawk model;

Note how Curtiss left a gap in the green camouflage for the upper wing roundels but that the AVG applied the Chinese markings further outboard.

Cheers

Tony

The shape of paint mask give this impression. If you look at you can see that the gap is not a real circle(arrow) to receive the british roundel.

And why do not paint the green under the national markings as the dark earth?

As you wrote, the national markings were decals for

U.S. insignia and flags - operation Torch - British and chinese markings

see here: http://lapatrouillesimple.forumgratuit.org/t537-curtiss-et-la-manie-du-decalco

For many aircrafts, these national marking were applied at the factory before delivery to customers.

.Curtiss had given to Di.Noc MFG the manufacturing of these chinese insignia decals.

I don't know if these decals markings were applied on the P-40B & C, or later on the P-40E.

The colour of blue of these decal was : "Dark Curtiss blue 1205" Army spec 14105 C" - 32" 1/2 dia

I search a long time but I do not found a Curtiss colour chart yet.

Do you remember where you have read these informations about these decals? I'm interested by.

cordially

Waroff

Edited December 9, 2014 by BS_w

[Nick Millman]

Photos of the aircraft being assembled at Mingaladon before the application of markings show very clearly the "deliberate" circles on the upper wing camouflage to aid in positioning the roundels. The upper wing Chinese roundels were not applied in those positions and were applied further outboard.

The "Chinese Blue" paint used for the Chinese roundels has been compared by Thomas A Tullis to FS 35095 when new, resembling FS 35180 or 35183 after fading and eventually close to 35250 "but much less saturated".

FWIW those comparisons are a little different to my own. The CAF "blue sky" paint was typically a little darker than FS 35102 (close to Methuen 21 E 8) when newly applied and faded to a chalky blue similar to FS 35177.

In his paintings in 'Tigers Over China' (Eagle Editions 2001) Mr Tullis depicts the upper wing roundels as smaller than the decal circles and smaller than the under wing roundels and that has been copied by some decal manufacturers, but two photographs of the left and right side upper wing roundels of # 77 (March 1941 allotment, arrived Rangoon July 1941 - CAF serial P-8173, Curtiss serial 15933, RAF serial AM480) show that the Airfix roundels are about right, with just a small gap between the rear edge of the roundel and the aileron hinge line.

Whatever the permutations of the blue (and I haven't seen the Trumpeter roundels) it was not the turquoise colour seen on some decals. The Methuen blue cited above is described as "deep blue".

[JWM]

Hi,

I do not remember, where I took from a profile of P40 B for my model - but there was suggestion, that British roundles were overpainted with Chinesse olive green, not DE - at least on wings from the top, so I did it this way in my model...

Cheers

Jerzy Wojtek

[Darby]

Sadly the model died due to an irrecoverable paint disaster so will have to get another one to do. Luckily I still have my decals. Cheers all

[mhaselden]

Hi,

I do not remember, where I took from a profile of P40 B for my model - but there was suggestion, that British roundles were overpainted with Chinesse olive green, not DE - at least on wings from the top, so I did it this way in my model...

Cheers

Jerzy Wojtek

Sadly profiles can't always be trusted and photo captions can be wrong. And often the modeller only realises the issue after the kit has been completed. I know I've encountered that problem myself.