Airfix Swift

[jaw]

I see that the new Airfix Swift FR5 has fared over gunports with a panel line to show where the troughs are. Yet looking at WK281 at Tangmere the gun ports are very definitely open. I wonder whether Airfix have made a mistake here and the gun ports should be open or whether they were fared over when in service. But it should be an easy enough job to open them up if necessary!

John

[sloegin57]

They should be open John, except for the F.7 which did not have any (AFAIK) - it didn't.

Dennis

Edit. Actually, looking at the kit, they are not faired over, just elongated "dimples"

Edited December 3, 2014 by sloegin57

[Paul J]

Sounds like the tooling design got reversed and so ending up as described and not hollow troughs if you know what I mean.

[marty_hopkirk]

Sounds like the tooling design got reversed and so ending up as described and not hollow troughs if you know what I mean.

Unlikely as, there would be blisters, not troughs.

Marty...

Edited December 3, 2014 by marty_hopkirk

[Paul J]

Unlikely as, there would be blisters, not troughs.

Marty...

Thats what Dennis said and what I meant!!!!

[viscount806x]

Right, that's it! I'm off to ring up The Samaritans now. The more I read about this kit here and in Paul Bradley's build thread the more suicidal I feel.

[Graham T]

Right, that's it! I'm off to ring up The Samaritans now. The more I read about this kit here and in Paul Bradley's build thread the more suicidal I feel.

Obviously the thing is unbuildable.

[sloegin57]

Dennis

[Paul Bradley]

My apologies if my build thread is reading as if this kit is terrible - it is not, and do wish people wouldn't blow things out of proportion! It has a few minor issues, none of which is fatal and any modeller worth his salt will be able to make a very nice model from it....... The biggest issue is Airfix's QC - that REALLY need to be sorted!!!!!

Gun troughs - two are faired over, two are very shallow, flat indentations.

[sloegin57]

My apologies if my build thread is reading as if this kit is terrible - it is not, and do wish people wouldn't blow things out of proportion! It has a few minor issues, none of which is fatal and any modeller worth his salt will be able to make a very nice model from it....... The biggest issue is Airfix's QC - that REALLY need to be sorted!!!!!

Gun troughs - two are faired over, two are very shallow, flat indentations.

I'll need to check but as I recall, only the F.2 had four guns, all the rest, bar the F7 which had none, had just two 30mm cannon.

Dennis

[Dave Fleming]

FR5 only had two (Think F3 and F4 has 4 as well)

[sloegin57]

FR5 only had two (Think F3 and F4 has 4 as well)

I think you are correct Dave and as the FR.5's were originally ordered as F.4's, the inboard "gun" on the Airfix kit could well be a port plated over during manufacture, However :-

I've just been reading this (brief) history of the Swift in Masons "British Fighter" Sad tale.

The F.2 was fitted with 4 guns which necessitated the inboard leading edge of the wing to be extended to accommodate the ammunition. This in turn caused "pitch up" usually at around M=0.85. Solution was to put heavy ballast in the nose which reduced max altitude considerably. The F.2 was grounded after two appeared to pitch up just after take-off.

Only 18 Swift 1's and 17 Swift 2's were built.

The F.3 never entered RAF service all, bar one, going straight from the production line to Tech Training Schools,

The F.4 was abandoned after only 6 had been built.

The PR.6 was also abandoned after the prototype was partially complete.

The FR.5 of course entered successful service and the F.7 served successfully as a missile trials platform.

As I said - a sad tale - but Supermarine got there in the end and I get the distinct impression that the problems with the Swift were not of Supermarine's making as it appears to have been rushed into service by the then Air Ministry before it was fully developed

Dennis

[upnorth]

As I said - a sad tale - but Supermarine got there in the end and I get the distinct impression that the problems with the Swift were not of Supermarine's making as it appears to have been rushed into service by the then Air Ministry before it was fully developed

I wonder how much that had to do with national pride and getting a non British designed fighter, the Sabre, completely out of RAF service ASAP.

[viscount806x]

My apologies if my build thread is reading as if this kit is terrible - it is not, and do wish people wouldn't blow things out of proportion!

It was just 'tongue in cheek' Paul, keep up the excellent work and comments, most helpful.

[Procopius]

I wonder how much that had to do with national pride and getting a non British designed fighter, the Sabre, completely out of RAF service ASAP.

It may have had more to do with the fact that the US placed restrictions on how the Sabres supplied under the Mutual Defense Assistance Act could be employed; IIRC, the two squadrons used by Fighter Command had to be purchased distinct from the aircraft allocated to NATO, as MDAA funds could only be used for "fighter-bombers" and not air defence aircraft. As Britain experienced a number of balance-of-payments crises in the 1950s with imports exceeding exports, the desire to use domestic products of what was then an industry employing substantial numbers of skilled workers strikes me as understandable.

[Selwyn]

It may have had more to do with the fact that the US placed restrictions on how the Sabres supplied under the Mutual Defense Assistance Act could be employed; IIRC, the two squadrons used by Fighter Command had to be purchased distinct from the aircraft allocated to NATO, as MDAA funds could only be used for "fighter-bombers" and not air defence aircraft. As Britain experienced a number of balance-of-payments crises in the 1950s with imports exceeding exports, the desire to use domestic products of what was then an industry employing substantial numbers of skilled workers strikes me as understandable.

Is this strictly true? The Gloster Javelins fitted with US Radar systems were funded under MDAP, and these were definately not fighter bombers!

Selwyn

[Procopius]

Is this strictly true? The Gloster Javelins fitted with US Radar systems were funded under MDAP, and these were definately not fighter bombers!

I am going off my recollections from reading the Sabre in RAF Service book, but I'm happy to be corrected on it, as I don't have it to hand. My other point, however, I am quite sure of, and in fact, the infamous John Profumo mentions it here in a debate in the House of Commons in 1951:

"If we are going to keep our heads above water, far less than maintain our standard of life, then it is of paramount importance that we should keep alive and increase our export markets. In British transport aircraft we have got some to offer the world which are superior to and far less expensive than the United States of America have. It would be a major economic tragedy to the nation if we 1493 ignored those world markets which will present themselves. But if more stable international relations should be established and the pressure of re-armament should be relaxed, as it easily may be, the British aircraft industry is going to find itself in a very difficult position in recapturing lost markets once they are lost, and that will be particularly so in the transport field."

He refers specifically to transport aircraft in this, but the passage is part of a larger conversation in which the acquisition of Sabres is mentioned.

[Pat C]

My other point, however, I am quite sure of, and in fact, the infamous John Profumo mentions it here in a debate in the House of Commons in 1951:

.

Fascinating debate. Difficult to imagine one like that taking place today!

Pat

[Sten Ekedahl]

One of the reasons Sweden turned to the UK for purchasing new fighters, (Hawker Hunters, but we nearly ended up chosing the Swift) and battle tanks (Centurions) in the early 50's, was that the Swedish export to the UK at the time, by far exceeded the import from the UK to Sweden. Therefore the UK goverment was more than happy to sell to Sweden and thereby improving the trade balance between our countries and getting some money back.

Edit: We also bought 10 Percival Pembrokes at the time. Turned out not to be the best aquisition the RSwAF ever made.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Sten Ekedahl

[Dave Fleming]

I think you are correct Dave and as the FR.5's were originally ordered as F.4's, the inboard "gun" on the Airfix kit could well be a port plated over during manufacture,

That's a good shout Dennis, both survivors were ordered as F4s. I wonder if the later aircraft had a similar panel.

Regarding the F3, although most went to Technical schools, there are a few photos of them flying, so they 'count' for my modelling plans (I'm almost as obsessional about Swifts as Harriers!). Some of them provided a very useful service as targets during the nuclear tests at Maralinga, and the remains are still buried out there, but I don't recall ever seeing a photo of them

EDIT: This suggests the Maralinga aircraft were F1/2s, you learn something every day!

http://www.adf-serials.com.au/swift.htm

Edited December 5, 2014 by Dave Fleming

[Meatbox8]

What I want to know is when are Airfix going to release the darned thing!

[sloegin57]

What I want to know is when are Airfix going to release the darned thing!

22nd December 2014 according to Wonderland Models, December according to Hannants and there is 10% off at both places. Price now £13.49 each.

Good value as its Airfix.

HTH

Dennis

[viscount806x]

22nd December 2014 according to Wonderland Models, December according to Hannants and there is 10% off at both places. Price now £13.49 each.

Good value as its Airfix.

HTH

Dennis

Amazon are doing it for £12.81 and free delivery.

[Graham Boak]

It's a lot easier to be cheap if you don't pay your taxes! The Airfix website seems to have shuffled its dates around a bit. I'm sure the Blenheim was 12th Dec but is now 19th, the Dornier was later but is now 12th, and the Swift is 24th.

[Fea]

Ayup...

Not for Xmas then ! LOL