Zero Floatplane; A big Rufe Rufe! Finished; well almost.

[Pete in Lincs]

Well, Besides them.

And their servants.

And their tennis partners.

And Lord Kitcheners pet tortoise......

Oh, And Bob.

(Just hope Melchett doesn't read this or he'll sue)

(Then we'd need a good lawyer. Any ideas?)

[georgeusa]

Pete, you always make me smile.

[rav]

From "Zero In Action".

[georgeusa]

Thanks Rav.

The diagram and bare inlet keep bugging me. I would assume some sort of mesh would go over the hole to prevent goop from accumulating and plugging it up. However, though I don't have that much experience with sea planes , I do have considerable experience with being on ships. (Misspent youth/shrimp and fishing boats/long story). And, if there is an opening exposed to the sea, water will find its way in. With a big gaping hole in the front of the pylon, on take off and landing I don't see how water is not going in that hole. So how does it exit? Is there a drain tube I'm not seeing in the float pictures?

The next question is why is this one aspect bugging me so much? Normally I'm not that concerned with every little detail being portrayed. I'm usually good with a general "It looks pretty much all right to me" attitude. Which leads me to my next post . . .

[georgeusa]

On another thread, there is much discussion concerning the trolley for these planes. This is what the Trumpeter trolley looks like.

This is what it should look like.

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I am not doing hardly any modifications to the actual kit. But to make the trolley look like what it should be would require extensive rebuilding if not just downright building from scratch. Now who in their right mind would spend a gob of time redoing what essentially is an accessory vehicle (NH)? This too is bugging me. So with the oil cooler above and now the trolley issue, this build is taking a detour from a mostly OOB build. Rats! That, and I'm playing with how to do the paint scheme. That update is up next.

[Tom Hall]

Quandaries about where to place an oil cooler, the shape of its duct, getting the trolley just right, equipping the cockpit and so on are why I never finish anything. If you think these issues are daunting, wait until you get to the painting! I think, George, you are probably less likely to ruminate over such things and more likely to finish a model than I am. Especially since you are building this publicly and will catch hell from us if progress lags!

If it were my model, I would make/find a plastic tube with an inside diameter that matches the diameter of the round intake hole, and put a little butterfly valve in it about six scale inches forward of the aft end of your duct. The length to be determined with some regard to where the upright formers are inside the pylon (the locations of which can be inferred from panel lines and rows of rivets) and the maybe 10-12" diameter of the cooler. Then I'd paint the inside of the duct with the colour you plan for the exterior and some grime. (Gaudy metallic aqua is not very common on the Japanese planes, and this duct would have collected salt, so Nakajima would have wanted a good coating on it.) Next would be to close off the aft end of the duct with a bit of very fine mesh something on a backing plate. A clean joint of the duct at the inlet hole. Finally, if it were my model, I would put it away for seven years to see if anything turns up to prove me wrong, before pushing on to the next step, which would be to ponder where all of this air went after it passed through the oil cooler!

About the trolley, there is a fairly good colour photo of a similar trolley on display at J-Aircraft.com. As I recall, it's more of an "I" beam structure than a "T" or "L" beam structure. How about making a waterline model, instead?

Just curious. Did Trumpeter provide two different prop spinners? They should have. The shorter one is for early production planes.

[georgeusa]

Tom,

I feel your pain as to finishing a model. This has been sitting for years for me to finish it for a not very good reason. So, I am bound and determined to slug through this. I am still trying to decide what to do about the oil cooler hole and appreciate your suggestions as that is very well what I end up doing. As for the trolley, I am not sure how far I will go with this reconstruction. I will see if I can find the color picture on the J-Aircraft site. Finally, Trumpeter only included one spinner for this kit.

Paint update. Thought I might experiment on the main float with how I am going to do the paint scheme. First I put down a layer of metallic silver

Then the float was masked to paint the grey area.

A layer of what was labeled INJ grey was put down.

I am not so sure about the grey. It seems way too dark to me. It is the Tamiya brand of paint supposedly for Japanese aircraft. I may have to respray with a lighter grey. Next up, either a respray of the grey and then the green, or just the green. As always, all comments are welcome.

[Tom Hall]

You want the dark green topsides. Have you decided anything else about the finished item, such as whether there is a pilot inside? The plane is in flight on a homemade stand? The plane is at rest on a dolly? At rest in the water? It's a new plane? It's a tired plane?

Now the issue of the gray. I'm sure Nick Millman will be along shortly to help with that. He, Jim Lansdale at J-Aircraft.com and several Japanese people have made quite a study of the colour of the early Model 21 Zero. It has been discussed in Japan for over 40 years!

I have been studying the Japanese planes for over 40 years and have a bookcase full of Japanese books on the subject. I can even read them. I am not aware of any painting specification for the Rufe having been discovered, nor even for the Model 21 Zero. I have never seen a new Model 21 Zero or a new Rufe. Therefore, I cannot pinpoint the exact colour you want to use or even tie the colour of the Nakajima-built Model 21 Zero to the underside of the Rufe. I think the odds are they were the same. You might ask Jim Lansdale if he has got a colour measurement from a Rufe scrap.

If he tells you that he does, and that it is a colour roughly around FS 26350 or 36350, then it is a gray that has a tiny bit of orange in it, as well as a little green. To my knowledge, there is no off-the-shelf model paint to match it, and the Japanese paint manufacturers have been missing the boat in this regard, or they reject that FS 6350 is close to correct. Even if there were such a model paint, it probably would not capture the chimera-like quality of the real thing. That one changes a good deal depending on the angle and type of light, which helps to make it controversial. If you choose a colour that is within that range of lighting/angle changes and adjust it for your display lighting, you'll be on solid ground.

To put it differently, if you look at the colour profile Trumpeter provided there in your photo, see the underside colour for that dark green plane, darken their light gray-green with a little black, and also add some drops of yellow-orange, you'll be heading in the direction of capturing the FS 6350-ish paint, if that's what Rufe had.

Your instincts are correct about what you've already sprayed a little bluish-gray; you probably want to do a little more research before using much more of it. (Moderators, am I allowed to link to Japanese modelling web sites?)

Edited November 21, 2014 by Tom Hall

[georgeusa]

Tom,

Thank you so much for the information you are giving me. I am just going to have this as a plane at rest on the trolley without a pilot. I just think the more I look at this paint (Tamiya INJ grey) it seems just too dark for what it needs to be. So, back to repainting that area a lighter shade of grey. I thought I would experiment with the finish and weathering on the float before I tackled the airframe. I am envisioning a somewhat war weary sea veteran, but not at the point there are only random small patches of the green left. From what I can tell, the green paint deteriorated at a much faster rate than the grey did. I will also need to work out how to weather the effects of the sea on the float planes. A venture to the ship building part might be in order as the float should weather much like the hull of a ship. Again, thanks for your input, it has been most helpful.

Oh yeah, I still need to decide how much to work on the trolley!

[hendie]

George - this is shaping up to be a really nice build/thread/information session.

Regarding your question on the trolley..... scratch build!!!! - Seriously though, I think you have a decent basis for the trolley and a bit of scratch building on top should get it pretty close to what I can make out form that picture. Even better is that everything is basic uncomplicated geometric shapes - you can probably buy all you need off the shelf.

As to the intake - I'd go with the suggestions above.... some tube, some mesh and something inside to represent ehrrrr... something else. I'd also build the intake assembly so that everything is inside the intake just enough so that you can't make it out clearly.

Go for it.... you know you want to otherwise you wouldn't have been asking those questions

[georgeusa]

Grumble . . . grumble . . . grumble. Why am I being led to the dark side by the call of airbrushes and scratch building? Wasn't I happier being a simple brush painter and not really caring how accurate the kit was and just enjoyed building it? Am I, horrors, developing a conscience? (Shuddering at the thought of that one as it will severely affect my chosen profession!) Anyway back to grumble . . . grumble . . . grumble; where is the plastic card stock; where is something to mix paint into? Why do I listen and am influenced by the likes of Hendie and Mr. Heath? I'm gonna go put on some flowery decals and just chill!!

[hendie]

Just figure out what sizes you need..... http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2054897.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XChannel+Styrene&_nkw=Channel+Styrene&_sacat=0

... and ask as many questions as you like

hey, you could even start a thread for the trolley all on it's own..... I think I'd keep the wheels and scratch build everything else.

If it all goes belly up, you still have the kit part to fall back on

[Darby]

'Oh George old boy, the brush, the airbrush is calling you...' Sorry Should that be 'Danny Boy... Either way the Pied Piper of Iwata is on the prowl

[Tom Hall]

Once before on this web site, I linked to a Japanese web site and no one complained, so let me do it again:

http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/navyblue2006/diary/200612070000/

This is a flying model made by a Japanese gentleman. If you go for the FS 6350-ish gray, this photo shows what would be about the outer boundary for the brownish interpretation/aspect of the full-sized paint. If you added just a very little green to a color like this, I think it would be a reasonable facsimile for the FS 6350-ish colour. I don't use the Tamiya acrylics, so I'm at a loss to suggest specific bottles of it. Personally, I really enjoy custom mixing oil-based paints.

In modelling, productivity is inversely related to caring.

While not wanting to pry, I take it that this is basically your first visit to the bawdy house called Japanese WWII airplanes. I hope you can have a pleasurable experience. The main thing is to make sure you leave the bawdy house with a smile and a sense of accomplishment. The people on this web site are very supportive of practically all finished models displayed here, including OOB builds and brush-painting.

[georgeusa]

Tom,

Yeah, from those pictures, my grey is way too dark. I will need to redo it after the green paint dries. I have completed a couple of Japanese airplanes recently. One for the less than $10 dollar group build. (Okay it was 10 pounds, but I limited it to what I know dollars. Besides, I hate having to find the darn pound sign on my keyboard.) It was the old Revell Baa Baa Black Sheep version. That was done in all grey. The thread is here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234955076-revell-zero-baa-baa-black-sheep-finished/. I also completed a Ki-61 Hien for the purpose of learning how to use an airbursh. That build is here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234969253-ki-61-1-hein;-132-hasegawa/. I have a ZM Raiden in the WIP stage, but I was learning to use an airbrush on some other models before I tackled finishing that one. The build for that is here http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234954252-zoukei-mura-132-raiden/?hl=raiden.

I tried to register for the J-Aircraft forum, but apparently they do not like AOL as they determined I had a spam address and did not let me register. Seems such a bother to create an entire email account with another service just for that forum.

[georgeusa]

Paint update 2. I masked the grey area (still debating about the color) and gave another coat of silver prior to the green being laid down.

Then that was hit with the green coat.

I think I can work with the green paint as it seems a close match with color pictures I have seen and the pictures I have of the CAF Japanese aircraft. (I know a restored aircraft, not always the best to rely on. But, they were featured in the movie “Tora, Tora, Tora”. Bad movie, great aerial scenes.) After the paint dries to the touch, I will unmask and decide if I am going to redo the grey. Sorry for the small content, but until the paint dries, that’s all folks. As always, all comments are welcome.

[Av8fan]

Center Strut Oil cooler:

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/a6m2-n/7134/rufe-holtz-bay-capture.html#axzz3JkxGXVOA

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/a6m2-n/7134/a6m2-n-float-strut.html#axzz3Jkk98CQO

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/a6m2-n/7134/oil-cooler-cu.html#axzz3Jkk98CQO

Edited November 22, 2014 by Av8fan

[georgeusa]

Av8fan, besides liking a clever name, thank you so much for the pictures. Now I have an idea of what to build. How is a different matter, but at least what is answered. Thank you so much.

[Pete in Lincs]

Of course that third picture clearly shows

that the air flows through the cooler and

out of the back. I bet there isn't a hole

on the rear of the pylon, Is there?

Sorry, George.

Have a look at oldmodelkits.com & search for rufe.

some old kits at nice prices. Box art in grey or green!

And if you find the Johan 1/72nd Rufe, The picture

on the box shows it in a sort of pink!

The trolley? Keep it, modify it. Defy/sue critics!

[georgeusa]

Paint and trolley update. Well first, I did go back and mask the front windscreen that I foolishly didn’t do when masking the rest of the canopy parts.

I managed to put on the initial paint layers on the main float.

The weathering was begun with some judicious sanding and scraping of the outer layers of paint down to the silver.

Then some rust effects were done by using a combination of Flory Rust Wash and Tamiya rust powder.

I think I am going to stop here and let what has been done settle in. I don’t want to overdo it. I was thinking of some scale (whitish) and dirt effects, but maybe not. Also considered using some clear green to get an algae growth look. That too, I will have to look at.

Okay, the next little bit is a lazy man’s primer to halfway improving the beaching trolley. The trumpeter trolley looks like this (without the supports on yet).

It is supposed to look something like this.

I could have tried to build it from scratch, but I didn’t. Since I built it in between 2 and 4 in the morning, not a lot of hobby stores open to me. So with different thicknesses of card stock, I have tried to create an illusion of the real thing. Just don’t look too close. The first issue is to turn the metal parts into I beams, not T beams. So card stock of the appropriate thickness was cut. . .

and placed at the bottom of the existing trolley for this effect.

All I need to do is sand the edges to match and I think I have I beams. The rest of the trolley was done with this result

Next up the supports. The way it is portrayed in the picture is the bottom frame is metal with the upright supports wood beams. The wood beams are put into metal braces that hold them in place. The Trumpeter pieces are very strange. On one side it looks like I beam, the other side is solid. So, I need to make both sides solid. I found some very light weight card stock that I will use for this purpose.

The card stock is glued in place

And then trimmed to fit

The picture shows some triangle bracing plates at the base of the support column. Oh yeah, each support column is different in shape. So, going loosely by the photos, I sketched some triangle braces for each support.

And then the triangle supports were cut out along with the boxing to go on the rest of the sides of the support column.

These were then glued up and left to dry. After the glue hardened, I test fit to see how the columns were going to work. Yeah, not so good. The trolley in the picture is a slightly different design than the Trumpeter version. (Since the picture is of a main float and a trolley, it could be for another type of float plane). My triangles in their present form were not going to work. One side had to be cut down. So after messing with the supports until they fit right, the trolley was painted and weathered. I do not know if this is that much of an improvement.

And here it is with the main float in its place, so at least it is functional.

Moving on, since I liked how the main float turned out, I started work on the airframe. The underside was given a layer of silver.

Then the grey was sprayed on. Initially I had thought the grey would be too dark, but with the dark green, it turned out pretty nice. (See the float pictures). Of course, I forgot to take a picture of the grey underside for this update. Sorry. The bottom was then taped off, the cockpit and the engine protected with tape and wet tissue.

The top was then given a coat of metallic silver

The silver was then given the green top coat.

So far, so good. Paint now has to fully dry. Next up is a coat of Future; then decaling; then weathering. Please forgive my pitiful excuse for scratch building (really scratch modifying). Just think of it as baby steps. As always, all comments welcome.

[hendie]

excellent work George - the trolley turned out great. Nice bit of scratch building there.

I love the weathering on the float - if the airframe turns out as good this is going to be a really great looking kit

[Max Headroom]

George

I found this.......

http://theamericanwarrior.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/rufe-at-attu-4x6.jpg

Does that help?

Trevor

Rats! Beaten to it!

[georgeusa]

Thanks Trevor it does. My plan for a mesh covering has gone out the window. It looks like I have to build a circle out of something and the put some slats inside the circle. Right now looking for the right diameter circle material.

[Av8fan]

Thats a much better picture Trevor. I would think that every bit helps.

I am really enjoying this build.

[Pete in Lincs]

George,

Nice work on the trolley.

Ground equipment tends to

be used & abused & unloved

so wear & tear is always evident.

I'd add more weathering to the float,

But that's just me.

(BTW Aluminium doesn't rust. Don't tell the others)

Didn't this one have fixed wingtips?

regards

Pete