Paul J Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Part 85 eludes me! It fits in the turret as an alternative to the guns and gunner and is a strange looking item. What was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Dapple Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Part 85 eludes me! It fits in the turret as an alternative to the guns and gunner and is a strange looking item. What was it? Got any pics Paul? You see, they don't always get it before everyone else... It's always worth shopping around. Shop around for pre-orders on the basis that other shops might have them before Hannants? How am I supposed to know who is going to get them first? Cheers, Stew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeronut Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Is it just me or do others think that the gunners in all three versions of the box art need more training in the art of deflection shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Got any pics Paul? Pics of the odd looking turret part and some of the level of detail ofthis mightty fine kit. The part in question is no.20 (not 85, I looked at wrong number!).Its the one at bottom right of sprue and prop. The other side of it but now at top right. It really has baffled me. The instructions indicate to use as an option but not with the guns or crewfigure! So what is it?? The 'bods that go inside! Nice sculpting and very new and different to what we have seen in the past! wheel bay and interior parts. Fuselage interior cockpit area. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Dapple Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Thanks for the pics Paul, I had been wondering if that part was for a target tug variant but even if that was the case I have no idea why they would mention it in the instructions as an option for the regular turret fighter...? The crew figures are nice - the chap on the right with his helmet strap undone is definitely scaled down from the old 1/24 Hurricane pilot figure (and I know it does me no credit that I can remember the face of a plastic figure from a 1970's kit, but if anyone wants to check I will stake what's left of my reputation on it). Cheers, Stew 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Part 20 is the rack to hold the beer barrel. Cheers, Bill 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMA131Marine Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Could it be ballast for if the aircraft was being ferried without a gunner or the guns installed? I could imagine, in that case, that some weight would be needed to keep the center of gravity within limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Odd looking thing if it was ballast. Re the crew, thye look like twins! Legs in different positions shows Airfix are tyring to do something different with crew for their aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Thanks for the pics Paul, I had been wondering if that part was for a target tug variant but even if that was the case I have no idea why they would mention it in the instructions as an option for the regular turret fighter...? The crew figures are nice - the chap on the right with his helmet strap undone is definitely scaled down from the old 1/24 Hurricane pilot figure (and I know it does me no credit that I can remember the face of a plastic figure from a 1970's kit, but if anyone wants to check I will stake what's left of my reputation on it). Cheers, Stew My thoughts too re the TT version. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Bird Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I thought about the TT version myself, and looking at photos in the Warpaint book, there's a part that protrudes out of the bottom of the fuselage where the cable goes back to the targets. Could it be that? From the scale drawings in the same book, the portion that is proud of the lower fuselage has a triangular-shaped side to it - not unlike one end of our mystery part. Cheers, Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Dapple Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 My thoughts too re the TT version. I thought about the TT version myself, and looking at photos in the Warpaint book, there's a part that protrudes out of the bottom of the fuselage where the cable goes back to the targets. Could it be that? From the scale drawings in the same book, the portion that is proud of the lower fuselage has a triangular-shaped side to it - not unlike one end of our mystery part. Cheers, Bill It's an intriguing idea isn't it? I'm not sure if there would be enough demand to justify a separate boxing for a TT version (though they are at least colourful I suppose) but I've noticed in some of the new Airfix releases that parts are included for versions not included in any of the boxings (theoretically I think you could produce four different Blenheims from the two kits released so far and none of them have been a Mk.1f, but the gun-pack is included in the Mk.IVf boxing, plus enough radar aerial fittings to make the nightfighter Mk.1f). Perhaps they are just covering themselves for all eventualities? Cheers, Stew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The target tug Defiants didn't have a turret. I agree that it must be a realistic option for the fighter if it is presented as such in the kit - it wasn't intended for release on April 1st, after all. Not ballast but the mounting for same? Oh for the Good Old Days when the parts were described on the instruction sheet, so we knew what they were meant to be. The RCM Defiants retained the turret but although I don't know what the interior looked like, they were Mk.IIs in Night finish. Yes: you can X-kit the Airfix Blenheims to do a Mk.I fighter and a Mk.IV bomber. You even get three different options for the B Mk.IV - two, one or nil ventral nose guns. Counting day/night fighters, that's eight different variants - then throw in the tropical ones but I think we require a bulkier tropical filter first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The RCM Defiants retained the turret but although I don't know what the interior looked like, they were Mk.IIs in Night finish. If you are talking about the 515 Sq MOONSHINE and MANDREL aircraft, agree they were Mark IIs (in the serial range AA375 to AA670, based on a synthesis of Rawlings Fighter Squadron, the A-B Defiant book, Alec Brew's Crowood Defiant Fighters and A-B RAF Serials AA100-AZ999) and that they retained the turret. But I'm not sure they were Night: ISTR a photo or photos in an old Aeroplane Monthly "Database" which taught me most of what I know about these aircraft. Pretty sure they were in day fighter camouflage. At the time I interpreted the colours as Ocean Grey/Dark Green and Sea Grey Medium with Sky fuselage bands and spinners but, if I saw the pictures now, I might perhaps come to a different conclusion. For anyone interested the photo was (or photos were) on page 68 of the August 2008 Aeroplane Monthly. Can't find my copy owing to house move, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I recall that pic and I'd agree on the colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff_B Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Part 20 looks like it could attach to part 21 of the Turret judging by the photos ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 AFAIK. the target tug Defiants were all based on the Mk II as well with the Merlin XX motor. Steve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Dapple Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Hmm, well I'm stumped, I hope mine arrive tomorrow so I can have a 3D shufti for myself Cheers, Stew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 If you are talking about the 515 Sq MOONSHINE and MANDREL aircraft, agree they were Mark IIs (in the serial range AA375 to AA670, based on a synthesis of Rawlings Fighter Squadron, the A-B Defiant book, Alec Brew's Crowood Defiant Fighters and A-B RAF Serials AA100-AZ999) and that they retained the turret. But I'm not sure they were Night: ISTR a photo or photos in an old Aeroplane Monthly "Database" which taught me most of what I know about these aircraft. Pretty sure they were in day fighter camouflage. At the time I interpreted the colours as Ocean Grey/Dark Green and Sea Grey Medium with Sky fuselage bands and spinners but, if I saw the pictures now, I might perhaps come to a different conclusion. For anyone interested the photo was (or photos were) on page 68 of the August 2008 Aeroplane Monthly. Can't find my copy owing to house move, Confounding the Reich has a photo of 515Sqn Defiants, they're all MkII's (they have the bigger carburettor intake), they're all in a disruptive pattern camouflage finish, with sky bands around the fuselage and sky spinners. If I was to hazard a guess and given that the photo is dated 1942, I'd concur that they're in the standard DG/OG/MSG day-fighter colour scheme. All have a single code letter. Wez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 AFAIK. the target tug Defiants were all based on the Mk II as well with the Merlin XX motor. Steve. IIRC TTmk III was a conversion on the mk I, TTmk II was based on the mk II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 This is a subject of some confusion out there in the googlesphere Dave, some sources agreeing with what you say, & others my version. My take on it is that the 1st 150 TT Mk Is were converted from F Mk IIs with the TT Mk IIIs being new built as TTs, 140 of them. I'd be surprised if at least some of the surplus Mk Is weren't converted as TTs but wonder just how may Mk Is were left by the time the TTs were conceived ( mid 1941?) I'd welcome a definitive ruling on this. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Just consulted my go to fo this sort of info, the Airplane part work from back when, which has a third version which appears to cover all bases & makes some sense & that is that,of 210 Defiant IIs, many were converted to TT Mk Is, in addition 150 Mk Is were converted to TT Mk IIIs & 140 new build TT Mk Is were built to bring Defiant production totals to 1065 airframes. I note that MPM included fuselage halves for Mk I & Mk II engined versions in their kit for the TT Mk I/III. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Part 20 looks like it could attach to part 21 of the Turret judging by the photos ? The instruction does in fact point out this part to fit the turret part. But still a bit of a mystery. Maybe all these extra alternative parts Airfix are including such as all those bits in the Blenheims are to fill up our spares boxes and save us buying A/M sets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 In this period, do not expect role-prefixed Mark Numbers to follow the same logic as the original series. Something very similar happened with the Firefly Trainers. Role prefixes were very new: it was only later that the system settled down to always regarding the Mark Number as the fixed item with the prefix varying. We are perhaps lucky not to get Mosquito NF Mk.Is to go with the PR Mk.Is and B Mk.Is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Part 20 is the footwell for the turret, and is only there as an extra item of detail, if the gunner figure is omitted. As late as 1943, the laid-down scheme for target tugs was green/brown over yellow/black stripes. Green/brown was a normal scheme for aircraft which spent their entire life in U.K. airspace. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Just consulted my go to fo this sort of info, the Airplane part work from back when, which has a third version which appears to cover all bases & makes some sense & that is that,of 210 Defiant IIs, many were converted to TT Mk Is, in addition 150 Mk Is were converted to TT Mk IIIs & 140 new build TT Mk Is were built to bring Defiant production totals to 1065 airframes. I note that MPM included fuselage halves for Mk I & Mk II engined versions in their kit for the TT Mk I/III. Steve. According to Alex Brew in his book for Crowood, the TT production was as follows (which goes to explaining the numbering) : TTmk I - 140 new build by BP (10 from original order of 150 cancelled) and then at least 149 mk II fighters converted by Reid and Sigirst (after they did the mk IIIs) TTmk II - new build version proposed with Merlin 24, not proceeded with TTmk III - conversion from surplus mk I fighters by Reid and Sigirst, initial order for 150, but in excess of 224 produced (exact number unknown) He explains the numbers are slightly confused as most AA Co-op units also had a few fighter variants for affiliation purposes. Edited January 21, 2015 by Dave Fleming 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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