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PlaStix

Two 1/48 Mk.Vb Spitfires - Tamiya and Airfix (new) - Spitfire collection expansion project - FINISHED! - photos now in the RFI section - 08/06/15

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For Troy and all,

That was an interesting picture of the Tamiya and Airfix fuselages which you posted a bit back. My information on the Tamiya fixes came from information provided by several Spitfire boffins which included measurements of specfic segments and overall dimensions of the Spitfire, then converted and compared to measurement of the kits available at that time.

I noticed in your photograph that you lined up the rear end of the cockpits to make the picture, obviously leaving the length mismatch at the nose. Was there a particular reason for that? Based on the information I have, the Tamiya nose section is pretty close to correct back to the firewall. Assuming that is correct, I would have started that comparison by matching the noses.

Since I built the last Tamiya Spit, there seems to be further information that the wing or cockpit was located incorrectly; do you know anything along that line?

Thanks, Jim

HI Jim

all this postulating forced me to dig out various kits and plans [ Peter Cooks XIV/XIX, Cox Mk I, AR Clint I/V/IX] and dimensions, though I have been using the new Airfix VB as '3-D plan' as it's rated as being the best shaped so far.

in this thread - http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234935782-griffon-spitfires-compared/

Hi Andrew, I have just dug out my Supermarine MK 16 Fuselage drawing, The length of the fuslage from frame 5 [ firewall ] to the rudder post is 245 inches which is 6223mm and at 1:48th scale is 129.645833mm.

In length terms, the Airfix new VB vs Tamiya I/V fuselage, the engine section is a good match, which is back to the firewall.

the missing length is in the panel between door and fuel tank cover, adding a splice here though causes problems with the wing fillet, adding the cokpit parts etc, so I added a 1.68 mm strip [0.66 inch, a stock Evergreen strip size, near enough, the razor saw cut is 0.14mm ] just behind the fuel filler, and would rescribe the back line of the fuel tank.

You method of adding bars of plastic strip worked very well, and I used a piece of Evergreen that is 1.09 x 1.68mm (0.043 x 0.066 inch, 4x 6 inch in HO scale, being for railway use, I bought some packs of strip when a a chain of model shops closed down and it was a a pound a pack ;) )

The the 1.09mmm is a tiny amount thicker than the thickness as the fuselage moulding, which was serendipitous!

the addition needs to be in the right place, or near the right place. This splice brings the length up to the right length, and the all the rest of the fuselage is a very good match, which is why I started at the rudder post.

Anyway, the splice bring the firewall to rudder post to 129.5 mm as far as I can measure.

I asked Roy Sutherland about the new vs Tamiya, and he pointed out from the front the Tamiya looks slab sided, the New Airfix has the right horseshoe shape.

Tamiya left, Airfix right.

AirvsTamnosehorseshoeIMG_0332_zps6c704e3

The Tamiya is also about 1mm wider in the front fuselage.

I'm in the process of putting together a post on seeing if you can fix the Tamiya shape reasonably easily, but I'm rechecking my 'solution' but i'll post up a link if it all seems workable, as I'll make a posting of it, rather than cluttering up Plastix thread too much.

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Stix at first, congratz to the D-Day group results :yahoo:

As for the wires, i m usualy using leaden wires, you can buy it in any fishing hobby shop i guess (well, you can buy it even in specialized kit shops, but these ll be way way overpriced and the wires are exactly the same.. here i can buy the leaden wires in the fishing shops like 20x cheaper then the same wires in hobby shops..), these are usualy in thickness of 0,1 - 0,2 - 0,3 - 0,5 - 0,7 - 1,0 mm (these i m using, you can get bigger as well).

Next i m using some wires used for fly fishing (again, super cheap compared to anything from specialized hobby shops) - you can get these in diferent colours if you want too.

I m also using some wires from old electric-engines, spools from old radios and such a stuff (usualy when you are doing the big spring house cleaning, you find something like that what you are going to throw out :) )

The wires i was talking about here, were from agama hobby shop http://obchod.agama-model.cz/en-kategorie_56707-0-0-5mm.html - they have the wires reasonably cheap (5m long wire for +/- 1 euro, depends on thickness) and in various thickness (0,3 0,6 and 1mm) and in various colours. I m quite sure you can find something similar like that in your country too :)

Hi Wolwe - thank you!! I had a great time in the D-Day GB so it's been great all around!!

And thank you for the information about the wires - I'm definitely going to have to try and get some - I'll have to find the nearest fishing shop!

Hi Troy - I have no problem about my thread being used in this way - I think it's really interesting and I think others do too - but you post the information as you see fit.

Kind regards,

Stix

Edited by PlaStix

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Hi Troy - I have no problem about my thread being used in this way - I think it's really interesting and I think others do too - but you post the information as you see fit.

Kind regards,

Stil

HI Stix

OK, I'll do a separate post, but will add here as well.

Nose extended, next to Airfix. Camera distorts, but note lines on cutting mat.

IMG_0333AirvsTamextendednose_zps67eaf582

In length terms, the Airfix new VB vs Tamiya I/V fuselage, the engine section is a good match, which is back to the firewall.

the missing length is in the panel between door and fuel tank cover, adding a splice here though causes problems with the wing fillet, adding the cokpit parts etc, so I added a 1.68 mm strip [0.66 inch, a stock Evergreen strip size, near enough, the razor saw cut is 0.14mm ] just behind the fuel filler, and would rescribe the back line of the fuel tank.

You method of adding bars of plastic strip worked very well, and I used a piece of Evergreen that is 1.09 x 1.68mm (0.043 x 0.066 inch, 4x 6 inch in HO scale, being for railway use, I bought some packs of strip when a a chain of model shops closed down and it was a a pound a pack ;) )

The the 1.09mmm is a tiny amount thicker than the thickness as the fuselage moulding, which was serendipitous!

the addition needs to be in the right place, or near the right place. This splice brings the length up to the right length, and the all the rest of the fuselage is a very good match, which is why I started at the rudder post.

Anyway, the splice bring the firewall to rudder post to 129.5 mm as far as I can measure.

Note the Tamiya nose is still wider. I drew a line down each side with a fine marker, lay it flat, and then draw round. You need to remove the locating pins first.

I then sanded the nose centreline back carefully.

Here's the result I did check with some old vernier calipers as well Note the shape now of the fuel filler.

IMG_0346AirTamthinnednoseabove_zps23245a

.

That worked, so I tried to see if i could adjust the nose sides

I asked Roy Sutherland about the new Airfix vs Tamiya, and he pointed out from the front the Tamiya looks slab sided, the New Airfix has the righthorseshoe shape.

Tamiya left, Airfix right.

AirvsTamnosehorseshoeIMG_0332_zps6c704e3

so, I cut the wing root, and the underside of the nose, and bent it. Just bent it with my fingers, scraping and pushing as needed, using the Airfix as guide. You can see the strain lines in the plastic.

Here is one side modified, compared to Airfix.

You can see the sanded centreline as well.

IMG_0341AirvsTamcowlmod_zps286c0686.jpg

this shows the cuts more clearly, by this stage I was getting the Airfix nose underside to fit the Tamiya reshape. Note how this has kept the detail. The slot in the root will need filling.

IMG_0342Tamcowlmod_zpsbca7dfec.jpg

this is the inside of the nose, note the carving away of the inside, especially the locating pin strip, compare with unmodified side.

Just carefully bent, over do it and it will snap.

the Airfix kit comes with a trop filter, as well as normal, so one of these could be used to replace the Tamiya part, to use that will require some surgery, which I have not tried as yet.

IMG_0343Tamextensioninside_zps519691f3.j

I used Jim Kiker's method, of adding plastic card rods.

I carefully drew a pencil line, razor sawed off the nose, This needs to be done very carefully! Using the point where the root has kinked in makes it a little easier, and avoids messing up the fillet.

cleaned up the cuts carefully added rod strips to rear, added the 1.09 x 1.68mm evergreen strip, tight up against the cut edge, the top left sticking up, then added the nose, I added a bit of 20 thou card, pre bent by hand, and notched around the inside filler cap moulding.

The top of the strip left sticking up was then bent over, and held down while he glue set.

I just used cheap superglue, [pound shop, 10 tubes 1 pound] a little on a plastic lid, added in tiny drops with an old screwdriver, a toothpick would work fine. I'd go over the joints with a plastic cement later, but it's stood up to plenty of handling so far.

Heres the nose after much careful

Holding the Tamiya fuselage onto the Airfic lower wing, the Tamiya lower wing at the rear stuck out either side, so again drew a marker line on each half, and then sanded a triangular wedge of each side, just over 1mm in total.

Here after the sanding, note the original width at rear, and thinned where meets Airfix wing. Close enough at this point with the Tamiya wing, and note the tamiya wing will need a stri adding, as the wings have moved forward with the addition of the nose extension. the Airfix is the correct length.

IMG_0344AirfixWingTamFuse_zps69a9312a.jp

I need to do some more pics for the next bit.

Then I tried test fitting the fuselage.

Here's the wing inside, the black arrows are to the fuselage mounting/alignment parts. The fuselage sits outside of them, giving that famous Tamiya fit and ease of alignment. Then I tried something.

IMG_0347Tamwinglocators_zpsb50132ff.jpg

I fitted the fuselage behind the two rear mounting points, as I thinned the front centreline and the rear underside, and with the cut roots from the extension, I was able to force the fuselage onto the wing, note the fuselage is supposed to go outside the two rear mounting strips.

IMG_0348Tamwingforced_zpse887b154.jpg

And with upper wing, note gap. Really weirdly, the rear gap is filled perfectly with....1.68mm strip!

IMG_0349Tamwingforced_zps663afbd9.jpg

Why? Well, here's the odd thing, suddenly the 'fat ' Tamiya fuselage pulls in, and reshapes the fillet, and, well, I was, going, crikey, that's unexpected!

here's Tamiya forced wing root compared to Airfix.

Sorry not the best comparison shot, it's a lot easier to see in person, the Spitfire shape is very subtle in many places.

IMG_0350TAmAirforcedcompare_zps0cf88d12.

And not forced. Note compared fuselage/fillet shape

IMG_0351TamAirunforced_zps01caa7b1.jpg

With all the chopping, the fuselage now is quite flexible, and It's like sticking a corset on.

And there is plenty of creaking and groaning as well. But, the Spitfire fuselage is an oval from the firewall back, with added wing fillets, the thinned underside and forced in fuselage creates this oval. It may need some more trimming and adjusting, constructive comment and suggestion gratefully received.

Some very secure gluing will be needed, as there a fair amount of tensed plastic

And, with a little sanding, the seat bulkhead and instrument panel will fit. I didn't know if that would work.

The canopy? Will need a fettling in or use Airfix spares, as they kit has 3 windscreens, and 3 open and 3 closed canopies. Falcon vac ones are maybe easier to flex.

Wing underside. Black marker is trim lines, note gap, which can be filled with the 1.68mm strip as that's what went in the nose :whistle:

IMG_0352tamwingundersidejoin_zps2ad03ddc

Here's the rear of the wing root/ fuselage

IMG_0354TamAirrearfilletroot_zpse7eb3d54

One point, looking at walkrounds on primeportal, Tamiya have a line like a reinforcing strip at the edge of the wing piece, which I can't see on photos.

Some careful reshaping of the fillet maybe needed where it meets the wing. More research needed.

While this may seem like a lot of work, there is a similar amount of work needed to bring the well shaped but rather clunky Airfix mk I/II kit up a similar standard.

It looks good to me, have I made any really silly mistakes or errors?

And, thanks Stix for the invite.

PS - I have not addressed the minor wing problems, and it should be noted the wheel well openings are slightly oval, they should be round, the problem lies at the rear of the opening. I'm pondering on fixes.

Edit for spelling/comprehension.

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Wow! Hi Troy - thank you for the masterclass in kit modification/correction. That is a fabulously detailed piece of work! You certainly seem to have developed a set of skills and techniques to get plastic to do what you want!! Thank you for posting this. I'm not sure I have the skills and patience to do all the above but I have some ideas!

Kind regards,

Stix

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It's the weekend!!

Not spent as much time on this dual build project because I did some work on a base for displaying the Mk.XVI Spitfire.

All I've done so far, while waiting for some paint to dry on the base, is some work adding the Eduard parts for the control panel:

15376613510_8b219ceec2_c.jpg

This now needs some wash and drybrushing.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

Kind regards,

Stix

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Those Eduard parts look just great! Are you going to do the wash and drybrushing straight on or are you adding any clear coats before?

Ciao

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Blimey Stix you really going to town on this build,looking damn good so far!

Thank you Crusty. I would like to do these two Spitfires reasonably well so I'm trying to take my time and just enjoy the build. It probably means it's going to be a bit slow to watch though!

Those Eduard parts look just great! Are you going to do the wash and drybrushing straight on or are you adding any clear coats before?

Ciao

They are really nice - and they look far better than I would have been able to paint the console, as Tamiya don't provide a decal for it. With regards next steps I'm just going to do a Revell Anthracite wash and then dry brush a lighter version of the Cockpit green.

Stop it! I am trying to resist buying any more 1/48 Spitfires and you're not helping.

Sorry John I'm not going to stop! - just go out and get one! Both of these seem really good!

I didn't really mean it, you can carry on now please.

John

I know, I know............ Just a busy day today. Got some bits done early this morning and then I've been too busy to post an update. Sorry!

I spent a fair bit of time this morning working on the base for the Mk.XVI so didn't get as much done on this as I'd hoped. The base is now finished so from next week onwards I should be able to get more done on these.

This morning's work:

First off I fitted the armour plates and cut off the headrest from the Tamiya head armour before gluing it on the Eduard PE plate:

15385193527_5ba91b9d81_c.jpg

Then I did some painting on the seats:

14954136943_d11d2a583a_c.jpg

15571638431_92b6a075bc_c.jpg

You can see from the photos how oddly different they are. To me the Tamiya one looks too wide with not enough depth and the Airfix one looks narrow. I'm not concerned enough to bother altering them as by the time they're tucked away in the cockpit with the seat belts all over them I'm sure it won't matter too much. I need to get a wash on these and then do some weathering.

Next up I looked at the decal provided with the Airfix kit and wasn't awfully impressed. I thought about using the spare Eduard decal from the Mk.IX on the Airfix panel piece but the raised areas don't match very well. So I test fitted the spare Eduard panel which fitted reasonably well. It required a bit of thinning and the top fettling to fit the inside of the cockpit.

Eduard decal and panel on the left and Airfix on the right:

15575158482_12df812fa0_c.jpg

Fettling done on the top of the Eduard IP, left:

15388289837_7afd5739e1_c.jpg

I then soaked the decal in Humbrol's DecalFix and this is how the decal looked after a few hours on the panel:

15575538352_1c2e30ba4b_c.jpg

When I took the photo this evening it was starting to get dark, so it's quite difficult to see, but it has pulled down onto the raised panel detail pretty well. I have since applied some Pledge which I'm hoping will get it to settle even more.

The only other thing I did on this project was attach the seat frame to the seat bulkhead frame:

15574292505_e2266e1118_c.jpg

More next week, I hope!

Comments and suggestions welcome.

Next up I'm going to sort out some photos of the Mk.XVI so Dreamcatcher and I can finally get around to posting our builds in the RFI section. Not sure I'll get them done this evening though.

Kind regards,

Stix

Edited by PlaStix

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The panel looks great from here Stix!! Would have thought it was coloured etch if you hadn't have said otherwise :)

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I've only just spotted this thread and I am massively impressed with your improvement work on the Tamiya kit.

That said, and while I love a bit of a bash, I think the lesson I am taking is I'm selling mine and getting an Airfix one instead!

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There does seem to be a great variety of seat sizes in Spitfire kits, and not only in 1/48. I have three 1/32 kits and all have different size seats, I will replace them with Barracuda seats, which to me seem to be about right.

Looking good, keep at it

John

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Great job on the panel, Stix. From the pics, I couldn't tell if it is a decal or a colored PE. :goodjob:

Ciao

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The panel looks great from here Stix!! Would have thought it was coloured etch if you hadn't have said otherwise :)

Great job on the panel, Stix. From the pics, I couldn't tell if it is a decal or a colored PE. :goodjob:

Ciao

Hi wimbledon and Giemme. Thanks for the comments - it's more down to the Eduard decal than me - it is very nice and seems to respond well to DecalFix.

I've only just spotted this thread and I am massively impressed with your improvement work on the Tamiya kit.

That said, and while I love a bit of a bash, I think the lesson I am taking is I'm selling mine and getting an Airfix one instead!

Thanks WIP - to be fair I do think both kits seem pretty good.

There does seem to be a great variety of seat sizes in Spitfire kits, and not only in 1/48. I have three 1/32 kits and all have different size seats, I will replace them with Barracuda seats, which to me seem to be about right.

Looking good, keep at it

John

Thank you John - I think in this scale I'll get away with it!

Kind regards,

Stix

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Hi Stix,

After reviewing the later series of posts, I just thought I would chime in and say I admire the quality of the work you are doing on these builds. Well done.

And for Troy, thank you so much for the additional data and the tenacity of your work on correcting the Tamiya kit's shortcomings. There is definitely more there that can use improvement that I knew about! I have to admit, it is more work than I am willing to put into it. Still, I really enjoy seeing someone dig deep for the best data and then find a way to put it into a model. +1, sir!

Cheers, Jim

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Hi Jim, thank you for your comments and I totally agree with you about Troy's work.

I didn't get as much time this morning as I'd hoped but I did make some progress. I ended up doing mostly fiddly bits and pieces. First off I gave the Eduard IP decal a coat of matt varnish before dropping some Pledge onto the dials to give them a bit of a shine. Then I made the Fuel Tank Pressure sign and lever which Airfix had missed off. Then I glued the Eduard IP to the Airfix bulkhead.

Airfix on the left, with the Eduard decal IP, and Tamiya on the right, with the Eduard PE IP:

15002222023_1d1008e536_c.jpg

I still need to get a light wash on both the lower halves of these and do some drybrushing with a lighter version of Cockpit green.

I also started making up some of the other Eduard PE parts for Tamiya cockpit including the foot pedals.

What's provided by Tamiya:

15436262538_7675bfe68a_c.jpg

With the pedals now replaced by the Eduard versions:

15619724931_5a4a588297_c.jpg

Hopefully I'll get more done tomorrow.

Kind regards,

Stix

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Good work there stix. A pleasure to watch develop as always. I must say I'm not a huge fan if the Spit (herasy I know) or 48th but your great work on this is seriously making me reevaluate my position.

Have Airfix made a 48th Hurricane in the new style yet?

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Hi stix both of them looks great. I think I know why you build so many spitfires. When you make one you just cant stop :) Now I am making mine but I all

ready think about next one

regards

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Have Airfix made a 48th Hurricane in the new style yet?

NO! Hope they do though, with the 75th Anniversary of the BoB coming up it would be good prospect, and basically accurate OOB 1/48th Hurricane would be a boon, especially at this price.

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Hey Stix

Looking good fella...but then your builds always do!

Cheers

Iain

Thank you Iain, you're way too kind!

Nice work stix,that eduard p.e makes a heck of a difference I've used it 3 times now and it never fails to impress

Regards

Tim

Hi Tim, thank you - I agree - these little Eduard PE sets are really good - if a little fiddly at times!

Good work there stix. A pleasure to watch develop as always. I must say I'm not a huge fan if the Spit (herasy I know) or 48th but your great work on this is seriously making me reevaluate my position.

Have Airfix made a 48th Hurricane in the new style yet?

Hi Blastvader, thank you for your comments. i frequently see aircraft I normally wouldn't think of building being made on BM and want to make one too! Get a Spitfire - it would be good for you! As Troy says above - unfortunately not yet.

Hi stix both of them looks great. I think I know why you build so many spitfires. When you make one you just cant stop :) Now I am making mine but I all

ready think about next one

regards

Hi sdk_uk. Thank you. It's true I already have some ideas for the next ones! You'll just have to make another then! I look forward to it.

Again, unfortunately I didn't get as much time as I'd hoped. More bits and pieces again today but I still enjoyed it!

First off - having yesterday made up the Eduard PE pedals for the Tamiya Spitfire:

15619724931_5a4a588297_c.jpg

I realised I hadn't even looked at the Airfix ones - I was not awfully impressed! - see the two blobby things in the centre of this photo:

15010374754_d56660ecaf_c.jpg

There wasn't a lot I could do - as I'd mentioned earlier in the thread I'd already decided to not resort to buying additional aftermarket stuff for this kit. So I drilled out the centres and did a bit of fettling. The Eduard PE set comes with a spare strap so I used that and made the other from some painted Tamiya masking tape. Then it was a case of giving them a coat of Revell Aluminium paint. And before anyone says it - I do know they are probably never going to be seen once the fuselage is all buttoned up! But I'll know they're there:

15010951103_05da2b046a_c.jpg

Otherwise I Got a bit of painting done today including the linkages on the base pieces for the pedals - Revell's Aluminium and Brass -

Airfix:

15445539460_5588a8c94a_c.jpg

Tamiya:

15445535860_fd0557fc97_c.jpg

Finally I got the headrest armour glued on the Airfix seat bulkhead:

15010947133_f9e46445f3_c.jpg

So not a lot - but that was still about a couple of hours work.

Comments and suggestions welcome.

Kind regards,

Stix

Edited by PlaStix

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Hi, just joined the forum and your post was the first I looked at - made me think I am waaaaay out of MY depth here! Anyway I was thinking to myself a few days ago what I could use to make webbing straps and saw you used Tamiya masking tape. Now I was thinking along the lines of bank notes - they are not paper as such and are very hard wearing in general use. Wash them out and cut up they could be a viable alternative. Thinking about the legal tender issue (!) old 10 shilling notes go for about £3.50 or even foreign notes.

Looking forward to your next issue

Philip

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Hi Phillip. Welcome to Britmodeller! I amazed that your first post is in my thread. You shouldn't feel out of your depth here. I didn't build like this until I'd done a fair few builds on here and learnt a lot of things from other BritModellers. Also there are lots of modellers on here whose skills are much more advanced than mine and I am constantly amazed and inspired by what they can do. The best thing to do is just enjoy what you build - after all it's supposed to be fun!

With regards the seat belts - using Tamiya tape was something I learnt about here on BM. It takes a bit of practice but after a few attempts I managed to make some reasonable versions. I usually cut a short length off the role and attach it to the cutting matt. Then I paint it a suitable colour with acrylic paints before cutting them in strips with a ruler and craft knife.

I look forward to seeing your builds on here in the future.

Kind regards,

Stix

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