So if Scotland do go......

[Filler]

Now Leuchars is no more, where is the most northerly QRA base? And from a future Scotland-less UK point of view, would Coningsby be covering the whole of the UK?

Another possibility could be that a defence agreement is formed between an independent Scotland and the UK whereby RAF jets are based there on a permanent deployment.

[Radleigh]

What would happen to the roundels?

[Rabbit Leader]

At least it will allow Airfix to include another set of roundels, rather than concentrating on the IAC.!!

Being on the otherside of the world we don't get too much coverage of this, so are the Welsh upset as well?

Cheers.. Dave.

[Giorgio N]

Meanwhile, looking around our neighbours, does Iceland have an air force? Can Denmark protect the Faroe Islands from home soil?

Iceland never had an airforce but for many years had a USAF air defence squadron permanently based at Keflavik. This was replaced in 1996 by the deployment on rotation of a number of USAF F-15 based units. At the same time the USN rotated a P-3 based unit on the same Keflavik air base.

Since 2006 the USAF has withdrawn from Keflavik and after a number of Russian intrusions in the local airspace an agreement was reached among NATO members to base a number of aircrafts at Keflavik for air defence duties. This task is rotated through the various members, although until now the UK has not participated because of the well known financial issues between the two countries.

[Gary C]

Now Leuchars is no more, where is the most northerly QRA base?

I don't know about QRA but Leeming is probably the most northern active base. 100 Squadron Hawks are there at the moment but it was home to Tornado F3's of 25 and 11 Squadrons not that long ago. I can't imagine it would be that difficult to set it up for Typhoons.

[Filler]

I see. Leeming doesn't seem significantly further north than Coningsby to me in terms of fighter jet distance. Does Lossiemouth not have QRA facilities?

[Paul Bradley]

It seems pointless 'giving' Scotland a handful of Typhoons - that seems non-sustainable. Instead, Scotland and Britain could come to an arrangement whereby Britain handles Scottish air defence from a sovereign base area in Scotland - the cost borne by Britain in lieu of 'giving' them a handful of non-sustainable Typhoons......

[Filler]

That is certainly the most logical solution and thus knowing politicians - the least likely!

[Greg B]

You are forgetting the manpower. How many would stay in place in an emasculated armed militia with advancement through dead mans shoes, limited postings and no challenging exercises or operational tours. No manpower to maintain and operate, no point in keeping them.

[sloegin57]

Being on the otherside of the world we don't get too much coverage of this, so are the Welsh upset as well?

Cheers.. Dave.

Don't worry Dave, we don't get much coverage of it here either, in the East Neuk of Fife but that's through choice - there is always "something else to do".

I don't think that the Welsh really care as long as they can sing about it - and beautifully I might add. I believe that they had a referendum and voted against leaving but of course that was not a Wham Bang, Shock Horror, Breaking News story for the Press in this country so was of little interest.

As regards Defence. Once all of the Press induced hype has died down, the pundits have analysed everything to the nth degree and generally been ignored, I see no reason as to why at least one of the RAF bases up here could not be declared a "Sovereign Base" the same as RAF Akrotiri is, with all due agreement, of course, between the British Govt in Westminster and the "new" Scottish Govt in Edinburgh.

Any other thoughts that I may have on the matter are strictly political and outside of the correctly imposed restraints by the Mods so if I have broken any rules, known or unknown, please delete this post. Apart from that, I'll Haud ma wheesht.

Regards

Dennis

[thomastmcc]

You are forgetting the manpower. How many would stay in place in an emasculated armed militia with advancement through dead mans shoes, limited postings and no challenging exercises or operational tours. No manpower to maintain and operate, no point in keeping them.

greg who you talking about scottish people or what .. as it sounds like you are and its insulting.. as a moderator your supposed to calm things down but making statements like that is inflaming a bad situation..

thomas

[tonyot]

You are forgetting the manpower. How many would stay in place in an emasculated armed militia with advancement through dead mans shoes, limited postings and no challenging exercises or operational tours. No manpower to maintain and operate, no point in keeping them.

You`ve just described the Irish Defence Force to a tee! Personally I think that Greg has described just what it would be like in the Scottish Armed Forces to somebody who had previously served in the UK Armed Forces and I don`t think that there is any insult in his statement, it is just a fact!.

Cheers

Tony

Edir- spelling,..sticky keys!

Edited September 9, 2014 by tonyot

[sloegin57]

Just in case there is a "Yes" vote on the 18th Sept and Scotland subsequently forms its own Self Defence Force and operates it's own airborne branch of said SSDF and adopts markings based on the national flag of Scotland, the Saltire, for all you decal manufacturers out there, the official colour for said Saltire, as determined by a Committee of the Scottish Govt in 2003 at a cost of £30,000 Sterling is - Pantone 300 - Azure.

So there.

Dennis

Edit:- added an 's after "it" and deleted reference to the Blue in the Union Flag as being Pantone 280.

Edited September 9, 2014 by sloegin57

[andym]

You are forgetting the manpower. How many would stay in place in an emasculated armed militia with advancement through dead mans shoes, limited postings and no challenging exercises or operational tours. No manpower to maintain and operate, no point in keeping them.

I think being part of NATO and also part of United Nations Forces will deal adequately with postings, challenging exercises and operational tours!

[andym]

Just in case there is a "Yes" vote on the 18th Sept and Scotland subsequently forms its own Self Defence Force and operates it's own airborne branch of said SSDF and adopts markings based on the national flag of Scotland, the Saltire, for all you decal manufacturers out there, the official colour for said Saltire, as determined by a Committee of the Scottish Govt in 2003 at a cost of £30,000 Sterling is - Pantone 300 - Azure.

So there.

Dennis

Edit:- added an 's after "it" and deleted reference to the Blue in the Union Flag as being Pantone 280.

Indeed and you'd be amazed at how many Scottish flags are wrong colour.

Andy

[Tiger331]

You are forgetting the manpower. How many would stay in place in an emasculated armed militia with advancement through dead mans shoes, limited postings and no challenging exercises or operational tours. No manpower to maintain and operate, no point in keeping them.

Err….I think you will find the opposite is the case !. Since an Independent Scotland will apparently set lower tax levels because it is one of the richest nations in the world, servicemen will be clamouring to swear their allegiance to the new force…….we could end up with too much manpower and not enough equipment.

[Giorgio N]

You`ve just described the Irish Defence Force to a tee! Personally I think that Greg has described just what it would be like in the Scottish Armed Forces to somebody who had previously served in the UK Armed Forces and I don`t think that there is any insult in his statement, it is just a fact!.

Cheers

Tony

Edir- spelling,..sticky keys!

I'm pretty sure the friends I have in the Irish Defence Forces would object to being defined an emasculated armed militia with no interesting posting, exercises or challenges... The relatives of the Irish soldiers killed in the many peacekeeping operations Ireland was involved in would also object.

Personally I find the definition insulting. I can understand everybody's pride in having served in his/her Country forces and I'm all for it, but to me the "my army has done more than yours" thing sounds like a childish contest

Edited September 9, 2014 by Shar2
Swearing removed

[pigsty]

Interesting that Ireland has come up. Why all these assumptions that Russia would be bothering Scotland and Scotland would be unable to hold them off? Leaving aside the obvious question of whether Russia really is the threat it was in the Cold War, they never bothered Ireland throughout it. By all accounts an independent Scotland would be a very different place, in terms of international relations and above all nuclear weapons, so the idea that it would suddenly become vulnerable to Russian interference is a bit far-fetched.

[Tiger331]

Interesting that Ireland has come up. Why all these assumptions that Russia would be bothering Scotland and Scotland would be unable to hold them off? Leaving aside the obvious question of whether Russia really is the threat it was in the Cold War, they never bothered Ireland throughout it. By all accounts an independent Scotland would be a very different place, in terms of international relations and above all nuclear weapons, so the idea that it would suddenly become vulnerable to Russian interference is a bit far-fetched.

One short Phrase: Ireland's long standing and well respected neutrality. Scotland is is quite a different position - both politically and literally.

[Tiger331]

I'm pretty sure the friends I have in the Irish Defence Forces would object to being defined an emasculated armed militia with no interesting posting, exercises or challenges... The relatives of the Irish soldiers killed in the many peacekeeping operations Ireland was involved in would also object.

Personally I find the definition insulting. I can understand everybody's pride in having served in his/her Country forces and I'm all for it, but to me the "my army has done more than yours" thing sounds like a childish Piddling contest.

Totally agree. A a serving member of HM Forces, I have had the privilege on several occasions to serve with members of the Irish Defence Forces in exotic locations; They bring a very different, practical and welcome point of view to multi-national operations. I can also vouch for the fact that their operational tours of duty can often be in interesting (read dangerous) places, made all the more poignant by the fact that they often operate in small numbers and do not enjoy the levels of Force Protection that some of the larger nations go to some lengths to provide. This is not to say that the Irish Government do not look after them; they just take a more pragmatic approach. The Irish Defence Forces' contribution to Peace Support Operations is long and illustrious and they continue to serve in places that have absolutely no connection with Ireland or Irish history. They are, for example, some of the longest serving contributors to the Sinai monitoring mission and UNFOR Cyprus and head up UN Military Training Mission in Africa too.

[pigsty]

Scotland is is quite a different position - both politically and literally.

Is now - that's not what I wrote.

[Tiger331]

Is now - that's not what I wrote.

Eh ??……To my knowledge, an Independent Scotland want to join NATO and I'm not sure of any plans to declare themselves neutral at any time in the near future (depending on the vote of course).

[Shar2]

I think a lot of you are taking Greg comments out of context, seemingly deliberately, plus there is no guarantee that an independent Scotland will be part of NATO, depending on how the nuclear question is dealt with.

I will agree that the Irish forces have done a lot over the years. My cousins brother is a Brigadier General in the Irish Army and has been to many trouble spots around the world. Although he's now based in Brussels as the Irish Forces representative.

Now, stop being contentious and keep the thread on track.

[thomastmcc]

Dave what nuclear question is that there is about 20 countries of NATO that do not have nuclear weapons , and also if increased Russian aggression goes on what about the USA,Greenland ,Iceland uk gap if Scotland not part of nato then that gap gets a lot bigger !,also tonyot I served for 15 years in the uk forces ..

[Greg B]

greg who you talking about scottish people or what .. as it sounds like you are and its insulting.. as a moderator your supposed to calm things down but making statements like that is inflaming a bad situation..

thomas

I really think you need to swiftly retract your downright rude and arrogant statement. You have shown a complete lack of understanding about my post, deliberately by the looks of things, and you also failed to take into account my heritage before bandying about accusations about insulting Scottish people. If you want to be offended about a valid viewpoint that does not meet yours, then this is not the forum for you.

As before, Scotland cannot even fill its infantry battalions without significant importation of commonwealth personnel. Watch this space when it comes to the more specialised roles. If the employment model offers limited advancement, postings and employment outside if the borders, then you will not get the people you really need to make the military work.