P40B Tomahawk - AVG = Flying Tigers (Airfix 1/72)

[ArmouredSprue]

Hi Paulo

The colours are determined from examination and measurement of Dupont paint swatches, Dupont colour card and extant samples of applied paints. Unfortunately most of the published references rely on the interpretation of colour photos, with inconsistent descriptions and incorrectly matched colours. Paint colours simply cannot be matched reliably from colour photos. By way of just one example the Osprey book on the subject describes the under surface colour as matching ANA 512 and British Sky Grey. ANA 512 was a gloss finish paint not promulgated until 1943 and is not similar to MAP Sky Grey. The 1942 Dupont paint card clearly shows that 71-021 was intended as a match for RAF Sky and had nothing to do with ANA 512. The published references tend to be derivative so that profiles, decal sheets, etc., peddle the erroneous idea that the AVG Tomahawks were painted "grey" underneath.

There are several articles on this subject at my 'amair4raf' blog too lengthy to easily summarise here. It's membership only but if you care to drop me a pm with your email address I'll be happy to send you an invitation and you can have a browse through them yourself. Your upper surface colours in post # 18 are good but bear in mind that the climate caused the paint surface to chalk severely (it can even be seen in the photos) making the colours gradually appear de-saturated and a little greyish, especially the brown, so it will also depend on how weathered you want your model to appear. This and minor batch painting differences probably account for visible differences seen in colour photos, for example of # 96 and # 35 (photo 11 on page 63 of the Osprey book). # 35 was from the batch of AK serials allotted in January (arriving in Burma in May) whilst 96 was from the batch of AM serials allotted in February (arriving in Burma in June).

Nick

Hi Nick!

Thanks for all your help mate! Really appreciated!

PM sent.

Cheers

Paulo

[ArmouredSprue]

Hey Paulo,

I was great to meet you at the Prop Jets and Rotors show.

Really happy you let me know that was on....I really enjoyed it and so did Harry so much appreciated!

Your awards for the 110 were very well deserved so well done.

Catch up again some time soon.

If not before then certainly the SAPMA show in October.

Looking forward to seeing more of your Flying Tiger it's really looking good so far.

All the best

Bruce

Hi Bruce

It was indeed a pleasure to meet you today.

I was so excited with the presentation that I forgot to ask you about that 109 of yours!

I really liked it mate and I would like to know about it.

We definitely need to catch up before SAPMA exhibition in October.

I will PM you my details.

Cheers mate!

Paulo

[ArmouredSprue]

Nice work Paulo. I'd try not to get too bogged down with the base colours and focus on getting the desired finish with pastels and fading the paint so that it matches those great photos. Seeing your build makes me want to do one in 1/48th.

Thanks Doug!

I will follow your build when you start.

Cheers mate!

[ArmouredSprue]

Loving this build also, I'm building the RAF'S version now (112Sqn??) but have this on the stash to be done also. I am and have been watching this build closely, so I can steal I mean borrow ideas

However one thing that stands out to me, and was pointed out in one of the Airfix Monthly magazines was the roundels. If you're going to all that effort for the faded paint (loving the work and research btw), then the roundels need work too. Where as the top ones on the wing are faded, the bottom side ones would not be. Don't know if you have already sorted that out yet?

Kind Regards

Dazz

Hi Dazz

I don t have access to Airfix Mag, would you be able to send me a scan of it through my email? (I will PM you if you are aok with that!)

Cheers

[Dazzio]

Hi Dazz

I don t have access to Airfix Mag, would you be able to send me a scan of it through my email? (I will PM you if you are aok with that!)

Cheers

Eerrmm yeah I should be able to work something out. Gotta find the magazine first.

Kind Regards

Dazz

[ArmouredSprue]

Eerrmm yeah I should be able to work something out. Gotta find the magazine first.

Kind Regards

Dazz

Pm on your way mate!

Cheers!

[Winenut]

Hi Paulo,

The 109E WIP can be found here....she started life as a 109G build....it's a looooooong story!!

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234944958-airfix-172-bf109g-finnish-airforce-1948/?hl=109g#entry1381254

The actual RFI of both can be found here

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234953564-two-109s-finally/

It's pretty heavily and clumsily weathered but it sort of ended up looking sort of cool

Cheers

Bruce

[StephenCJ]

My Airfix P-40B is here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234955353-airfix-172-curtiss-hawk-81-a-2/?hl=caseyjones#entry1579070

This is the second model I have finished in a long time.

Stephen

[Winenut]

My Airfix P-40B is here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234955353-airfix-172-curtiss-hawk-81-a-2/?hl=caseyjones#entry1579070

This is the second model I have finished in a long time.

Stephen

That was a nice build Stephen.

Have you tried any wash or sludge or panel line techniques since on subsequent builds?

The P40 is just an awesome subject I think. Not so sleek and slender but absolutely iconic and varied schemes

Cheers!

Bruce

[ArmouredSprue]

Hi Paulo,

The 109E WIP can be found here....she started life as a 109G build....it's a looooooong story!!

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234944958-airfix-172-bf109g-finnish-airforce-1948/?hl=109g#entry1381254

The actual RFI of both can be found here

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234953564-two-109s-finally/

It's pretty heavily and clumsily weathered but it sort of ended up looking sort of cool

Cheers

Bruce

They are looking so good mate!

I did reply to your post with them both finished!

Cheers

[ArmouredSprue]

My Airfix P-40B is here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234955353-airfix-172-curtiss-hawk-81-a-2/?hl=caseyjones#entry1579070

This is the second model I have finished in a long time.

Stephen

Thats a really nice build. I did some comments in your post.

Cheers

Paulo

[ArmouredSprue]

Hi there!

I came downwards with colours choices. After Nick post here I was pointed out to a website with all the research about the correct colours for AVG first P40's. In a nutshell that is what it is:

Nick research found an original Du Pont 71 Line Colours to match catalog Here a photo of the paint chips

Here is how the 71-0121 compares against Sky Grey and Sky, pretty different! Here is my representation of the 71-021 mixed using Tamiya Acrylics (it looks lighter on the real thing) He also points the existence of two shades of brown but he also proves why the 71-009 is likely to be the one. Another interesting note is in regards how chalky these colours faded My representation of 71-009 mixed using Tamiya acrylics, besides looking better in the real thing, I'll also give it a weathering using Buff XF-57 to achieve the chalky aspect of the planes Here is my representation of the 71-013 using Tamiya acrylics Here is how my new colours stand against the intruction sheet Time to put some paint on the model, the coats of 71-021 Another view of the underside painted with my mix of 71-021

I'm really happy with the shade for the 71-021, but I'm not sure about the others for the camo. However, I'm pretty much locked on them!

That's it for now! Stay tuned!

[Mikey W]

Hello Paulo, Looks like your doing the complete 'dog's dangleys' on this P-40. I too have built this kit and loved it, as I have most of the 'new' Airfix offerings. Can I make a few comments that I hope you will find helpful. Your cockpit interior colour appears to be Zink Chromate. While this is the interior protective colour ( more a material description than a colour designator ) it was judged to be too harsh on the eyes so some black was added to mellow it out. This gives the interior or cockpit green we are familiar with. This applys to virtually all U.S. WW II aircraft, Army and Navy. Dazzio pointed out the issue with the faded wing insignia but I feel the Airfix ones are far too pale. I used some Microscale ones I had been saving for a decent P-40 kit. They are a bit darker than the kits but the underwing ones need to be darker still. While on the subject of wing insignia, do not follow the location as shown on the kit. The circular areas in brown are from the Curtis paint masks and were the intended location for the R.A.F. roundels. The Chinese insignia were placed further out towards the wing tip. The previous two points can be seen in the photos you have posted. Further verification can be seen in the Osprey book. Do take into consideration that staining/bleaching coming from the port side rear window panel is spilt fuel coming from the filler caps in the said rear window panel. Just a point of interest, in case it comes up in pub quiz, after the war Charles Older became a Judge in the Los Angeles area. He was the one whe presided over the Charles Manson trial ! Anyway keep up the good work and thank you for your contributions. Mikey W.

[ArmouredSprue]

Hello Paulo, Looks like your doing the complete 'dog's dangleys' on this P-40. I too have built this kit and loved it, as I have most of the 'new' Airfix offerings. Can I make a few comments that I hope you will find helpful. Your cockpit interior colour appears to be Zink Chromate. While this is the interior protective colour ( more a material description than a colour designator ) it was judged to be too harsh on the eyes so some black was added to mellow it out. This gives the interior or cockpit green we are familiar with. This applys to virtually all U.S. WW II aircraft, Army and Navy. Dazzio pointed out the issue with the faded wing insignia but I feel the Airfix ones are far too pale. I used some Microscale ones I had been saving for a decent P-40 kit. They are a bit darker than the kits but the underwing ones need to be darker still. While on the subject of wing insignia, do not follow the location as shown on the kit. The circular areas in brown are from the Curtis paint masks and were the intended location for the R.A.F. roundels. The Chinese insignia were placed further out towards the wing tip. The previous two points can be seen in the photos you have posted. Further verification can be seen in the Osprey book. Do take into consideration that staining/bleaching coming from the port side rear window panel is spilt fuel coming from the filler caps in the said rear window panel. Just a point of interest, in case it comes up in pub quiz, after the war Charles Older became a Judge in the Los Angeles area. He was the one whe presided over the Charles Manson trial ! Anyway keep up the good work and thank you for your contributions. Mikey W.

Hi Mikey

Thanks for your comments

I was aware of the interior green, but it looks better in real life than in digital photos, believe me!

About the insignia, I'll probably be using the kit supplied one, since I don't want to spend money on it, I'm trying to find an old set forgot in my spare decals box, let's see!

I knew about the insignia location, it is already in my plan of attack!

Yep! I'm aware of the fuel spill on the fuselage.

Yep! I knew about him becoming a judge

Cheers mate!

[LDSModeller]

Your cockpit interior colour appears to be Zink Chromate. While this is the interior protective colour ( more a material description than a colour designator ) it was judged to be too harsh on the eyes so some black was added to mellow it out. This gives the interior or cockpit green we are familiar with. This applys to virtually all U.S. WW II aircraft, Army and Navy.

If the aircraft were purchased by the British Ministry of Aircraft Procurement (MAP) eg 339E Buffalo, P 40B (and some British P 40B's were given to the Flying Tigers) then the cockpit colour is more likely to be similar/same as DuPont 71- O36 Cockpit Light Green.

Regards

Alan

[ArmouredSprue]

If the aircraft were purchased by the British Ministry of Aircraft Procurement (MAP) eg 339E Buffalo, P 40B (and some British P 40B's were given to the Flying Tigers) then the cockpit colour is more likely to be similar/same as DuPont 71- O36 Cockpit Light Green.

Regards

Alan

Hi Alan

Thanks for your comment.

You might be right but I'm happy with the colour I did the interior.

Cheers mate!

Paulo

[ArmouredSprue]

More updates. (Click the photo to enlarge it)

Keep it safe! Underside masked and ready to paint. The blue tape is just to allow me to hold the model for painting

Base coat of my representation of 71-009 following my mix of Tamiya acrylics: 4*XF49+4*XF2+1*XF65+1*XF9

It looks good and it looks weary

I'm waiting to paint really dries before deciding whether I'll apply another coat with a lighter shade or not.

BTW! I already saw some spots I need to retouch anyway.

That's it for now! I'd like to hear your comments.

Cheers

PS: Edited to include: Click on the photo to enlarge it

Edited August 21, 2014 by ArmouredSprue

[Winenut]

Gee that's looking great Paulo.

That first colour looks weathered already and the preshade is coming though really nicely.

I'm really looking forward to this as I find the P40 a really interesting subject I dont know much about.

Being able to enlarge those photos and then zoom in as well is incredible and shows so much detail......my photos are...well....pretty average! LOL

I'm interested in how you are tackling the canopy and the aft canopy glass on the fuse.

Have you got a plan of attack for handling that as I found it a bit tricky with camo colours under glass but not under the main canopy if you know what I mean!

[ArmouredSprue]

Gee that's looking great Paulo.

That first colour looks weathered already and the preshade is coming though really nicely.

I'm really looking forward to this as I find the P40 a really interesting subject I dont know much about.

Being able to enlarge those photos and then zoom in as well is incredible and shows so much detail......my photos are...well....pretty average! LOL

I'm interested in how you are tackling the canopy and the aft canopy glass on the fuse.

Have you got a plan of attack for handling that as I found it a bit tricky with camo colours under glass but not under the main canopy if you know what I mean!

Hi Bruce

The canopy is already masked and ready for paint I'll post some photos later on. They are very good with a perfect fit to the fuselage.

For the photos, I just use my phone.

[Winenut]

For the photos, I just use my phone.

Really!!!????

So do I!

[ArmouredSprue]

I'm really looking forward to this as I find the P40 a really interesting subject I dont know much about.

I have two more to go, both in Brazilian Air Force colours, one E camouflaged and with the shark mounth and the other a N in Natural Metal Finish. During the war Brazil used the P40E for anti submarine patrols over the Atlantic. Not many people knows that Brazil had an active role during the WWII.

[Mr T]

Lokking a very good build. I bullt a Tomahawk or year or so ago a finished with a my interpretation of the Dupont colours based on some of things i read here, mainly from Nick. Might appear a little plain as I do not preshade or do washes to bring out panel lines because that is the way i prefer. Link below

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234948421-airfix-172nd-tomahawk-iia/

[ArmouredSprue]

Lokking a very good build. I bullt a Tomahawk or year or so ago a finished with a my interpretation of the Dupont colours based on some of things i read here, mainly from Nick. Might appear a little plain as I do not preshade or do washes to bring out panel lines because that is the way i prefer. Link below

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234948421-airfix-172nd-tomahawk-iia/

Hi Martin

Thanks for stopping by. I saw your model and I liked it a lot.

I had the same interpretation and read the research done by Nick the issue is that paint suffered a bad deterioration in that theatre of operation and got a chalky appearance after a while. That's what I'm trying to replicate.

Stay tuned!

Cheers mate!

[ArmouredSprue]

Hi all

Bruce, this one is for you: I did prepare the glazier to be painted, now they are ready to get a coat of interior green first and than the camouflage colour.

Starboard side glazier panel Port side glazier panel Canopy masked and ready to receive paint

I've decided to give it another thin coat of paint a little lighter in colour than the previous. I sprayed randomly across the model. I also painted the spinner with this mix.

Port side showing the overall colour and also a patch of fresh colour applied just behind the side glazier panel (as can be seen in one of the #68 photo above) Starboard side showing the painted surface

That's it for while.

[Hamden]

Great progress

Roger