1/24 Tiffie canopy

[colin]

Got my replacement and while there's no distortion on the sides like the first one, the dimple is still there, but a lot smaller.

But I think as Airifix have stated will be less noticeable when actually on the kit as they say.

When you hold it and look through it, the dimple is quite noticeable, although your actually looking for it, but when I place on top of the keys of my calculator and look through it, it's hardly showing up at all.

[keefr22]

It seems as if Airfix has had problems getting clear parts/canopy done and there have always been issues as to thickness, clarity, fit and distortion. If this is a trend and known ongoing issue with this company and has been for years/decades, why is everyone so surprised when this kit also has an issue?

If you look at Andy's list George, you'll notice they are all 'new era' post Hornby takeover Airfix kits. Although the transparencies in older Airfix kits may have been thicker, I don't honestly remember there being cracks, flow marks, distortions etc. in them. The new kits transparencies are commendably thin & clear - it's just a shame they look so bad because of the now seemingly inherent problems in them! But my personal gripe with them is maybe more to do with their after sales 'support' really...

[cossack52]

don't know how to copy an email into this post;it actually says"unable to produce this part without the dimple"

[Edgar]

I realise that this might be a fairly radical approach, but how about waiting for the offending item to appear, before casting doubts on its usability? It's a little early to go on about a "dimple" (which is unlikely to be the dimensions of Fingal's Cave, or Wookey Hole) before it's available for inspection.

As for the sale of goods act, in order to qualify, the item must be "not fit for purpose." If you can build a model Typhoon out of the parts, that's all that's required, and the internet is awash with modellers saying that Hornby have offered (and supplied) replacements for any defective parts.

It does seem slightly strange that large canopies, with a prominent seam down the middle, needing a considerable amount of work to eradicate, have been with us for years, and excite no demands for replacement (or even an improvement in quality,) yet let one item, with a problem, appear from Airfix/Hornby, and all Hell lets loose.

[Caution Wake Turbulence]

On a positive note, at least Airfix have now specifically acknowledged the dimple issue and said they are working to eliminate it, although currently they have been unable to do so. Can't say fairer than that really. I would reproduce the email here, but the small print prohibits doing so...

Andrew

[spitfire]

At the end of the day I will use my crack free slightly dimpled canopy and once the kit is completed I will hardly notice it without holding it at odd angles to look for it, then the model is put in the display cabinet and forgotten, end of drama.

Cheers

Dennis

[keefr22]

... yet let one item, with a problem, appear from Airfix/Hornby, and all Hell lets loose.

Except it's not one item Edgar! You asked someone earlier did they read a particular post - did you read post #74....??

Keith

[andyrowe]

I realise that this might be a fairly radical approach, but how about waiting for the offending item to appear, before casting doubts on its usability? It's a little early to go on about a "dimple" (which is unlikely to be the dimensions of Fingal's Cave, or Wookey Hole) before it's available for inspection.

As for the sale of goods act, in order to qualify, the item must be "not fit for purpose." If you can build a model Typhoon out of the parts, that's all that's required, and the internet is awash with modellers saying that Hornby have offered (and supplied) replacements for any defective parts.

It does seem slightly strange that large canopies, with a prominent seam down the middle, needing a considerable amount of work to eradicate, have been with us for years, and excite no demands for replacement (or even an improvement in quality,) yet let one item, with a problem, appear from Airfix/Hornby, and all Hell lets loose.

In response to Edgars post, canopy seams can be removed quite easily, polished and dipped (if required). The lines are part of the molding process, especially on complex shaped canopies. Some kits have them, some don't. Those that don't have them usually means that the canopy is not the exact shape it should be (so what!!). I do think that with today's technology, it should be eradicated but at the end of the day it is fixable with a little effort.

The defects with many of Airfix's clear parts cannot be rectified. The flow lines affecting many of their new tooled kits run right through the plastic and cannot be removed by polishing, scraping, dipping etc. They are there to stay. Airfix know that there is a problem because this issue has been raised on other forums about other kits, not just the problems with the Typhoon. So it is not just this one item that has caused such a fuss. It is more likely that customers like myself, who have been buying their kits, are totally fed-up with the same poor quality issues appearing with kit after kit. I for one did not expect Airfix to allow it to happen with their flagship kit.

What really confuses me is that they seem to be making every effort on the other parts of the kits. Generally the plastic is well detailed, the panel lines improve with every release, the engineering is great and the decals are printed by Cartograf. So why are the clear parts so poor or of variable quality. Why can other manufacturers produce clear parts that are clear and relatively distortion free. I'm not looking for perfection, but my three Tiffie canopies are really poor.

Hornby moved production of it's Humbrol paints from India to the UK because of poor quality. That's not likely to happen with their kits as I imagine the costs would be far too high.

No kit, as we all know, is perfect. I refuse to buy Kitty Hawks kits because of the build issues I have seen online. I would love to have a 48th scale Voodoo, Foxbat, Cougar, Jaguar in the stash but refuse to pay £40 - £60 on so-called state of the art kits that need so much filling, sanding etc which just destroys all that lovely detail.

Some people will say I'm too fussy and just accept it and get on with building the kits but I'm finding it really difficult to accept that with almost every new Airfix kit that I buy, in the hope that it will have decent clear parts, almost always leaves me very disappointed. After the Tiffie, I'm not too sure about buying more Airfix kits. Which is a shame as, clear parts aside, I really do like them.

I'm including a few examples of the defects on my clear parts (from the top) - Harrier GR1, Lanc BII, Lightning, Lynx, spit Mk.22 & Vampire T.11.

Edited August 14, 2014 by andyrowe

[venomvixen]

Your are kidding me right?

Here we have a legitimate uber kit from a manufacturer who has done more for the hobby than any other and the pitch forks are

out and the villagers crying for blood.

So Airfix messed up the canopy, how many of you knew there was an issue with it but still stormed out to get one?

So how many sent an email to Airfix knowing full well the replacement canopy was dodgy too?

If you knew the canopy was bad and you still bought one then why are you whinging about it? Show a bit of patience and let Airfix sort

it, they will and as usual their world class spares department will fix you up.

Because as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow more of these dreadfully faulty kits will be in stashes than will be on the bench.

The howls of out rage over a relatively minor problem have been worthy of the best antics of another site I shan't mention.

Here's a thought, how far do you think you would have got had this been a kit issued from those dreadful communist heathens from the far east?

Right in between sod all and sweet FA.

So who's first to stone me?

Edited August 14, 2014 by Mike
Easy with the language please Danni

[keefr22]

Your are kidding me right?

Here we have a legitimate uber kit from a manufacturer who has done more for the hobby than any other and the pitch forks are

out and the villagers crying for blood.

So Airfix effed up the canopy, how many of you knew there was an issue with it but still stormed out to get one?

So how many sent an email to Airfix knowing full well the replacement canopy was dodgy too?

If you knew the canopy was bad and you still bought one then why are you whinging about it? Show a bit of patience and let Airfix sort

it, they will and as usual their world class spares department will fix you up.

Because as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow more of these dreadfully faulty kits will be in stashes than will be on the bench.

The howls of out rage over a relatively minor problem have been worthy of the best antics of another site I shan't mention.

Here's a thought, how far do you think you would have got had this been a kit issued from those dreadful communist heathens from the far east?

Right in between sod all and sweet FA.

So who's first to stone me?

No stoning Danni, it's only a plastic kit, or as SWMBO would have it another little plastic toy! I haven't bought a Typhoon (lack of cash/space) but have, as I said, continued to buy their 72nd new releases knowing of the problems in the clear parts, & will continue to do so. As I've also said, my main gripe in this issue is what I see (& others don't!!) as a pretty cynical attitude on Airfix's behalf of continuing to release new kits to market with the same or similar flaws to the last release & then continuing with the same 'we're aware of the problem & are working to fix it' mantra that they've been giving us with the Lightning since March & which they (unless the world class spares department has forgotten my request to send me good replacements) still haven't fixed. I know it's asking too much in this 'shareholders profit above all else' driven world, but couldn't they have put all their efforts into fixing the problem when it first came to light & hold off the new releases until they did?

Or is it maybe a case that they actually can't fix the problems with the mould technology they're now using? In the aforementioned Lightning canopies thread there are also numerous kits from other major manufacturers listed that have similar problems in clear parts. If it is the case that this is what we have to put up with to get such beautifully clear & thin transparancies, then maybe we should be told, & then at least we know exactly what to expect.....

I sincerely hope I'm talking garbage & they can fix the problems, as I love Airfix kits, always have, always will - & certainly will carry on buying them even though I'm expecting flawed transparancies in every kit now.

Keith

[andyrowe]

Your are kidding me right?

Here we have a legitimate uber kit from a manufacturer who has done more for the hobby than any other and the pitch forks are

out and the villagers crying for blood.

So Airfix effed up the canopy, how many of you knew there was an issue with it but still stormed out to get one?

So how many sent an email to Airfix knowing full well the replacement canopy was dodgy too?

If you knew the canopy was bad and you still bought one then why are you whinging about it? Show a bit of patience and let Airfix sort

it, they will and as usual their world class spares department will fix you up.

Because as sure as the sun will come up tomorrow more of these dreadfully faulty kits will be in stashes than will be on the bench.

The howls of out rage over a relatively minor problem have been worthy of the best antics of another site I shan't mention.

Here's a thought, how far do you think you would have got had this been a kit issued from those dreadful communist heathens from the far east?

Right in between sod all and sweet FA.

So who's first to stone me

Venomvixen,please read my post, No.83. It's not a minor problem. It's an ongoing problem with all of their new tooled kits. Look at the photos I have posted. I have many more if you wish to see them. I, like many other's do in fact love Airfix in general. I am even a club member. I have contacted them on many occasions about the defective clear parts and up to this present time, have not received any replacements that are an improvement on the poor originals. My latest email to Hornby customer care has gone unanswered after a week. This email politely informs them that the second replacement canopy is as poor as the first. This was after receiving an email from them stating that the issue had been resolved and they were waiting on the new canopies to arrive. Arrive it did and guess what, still very poor. I also reminded them of all my other defective parts that had not been resolved and I would await their response. If this is 'world class' (your words) then what hope do we have of getting parts that are acceptable. I do agree that I have had excellent service with them regarding broken, missing or warped parts in the past but the issue of the clear parts is farcical. I'm not a rivet counter, I can ignor minor inaccuracies etc but when a problem such as this keeps occurring you have to ask the question. Are Airfix trying to resolve the problem or are they ignoring it in the hope that we will continue to buy their kits. Oh, in answer to your question, I pre-ordered the kit so had no idea of the canopy issue. And before you say I should have known better considering the issues with my other kits, I have to say that I didn't think Airfix would dare to release such an expensive, high profile kit as this one without getting it right.

[Iain Wyllie]

.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Iain Wyllie

[Caution Wake Turbulence]

Iain,

Many of the original typhoon canopies had a crack/stress fracture in them, originating at the gate. This is one issue Airfix have been able to fix by 'adjusting the sprue feed'.

Andrew

[Edgar]

Except it's not one item Edgar! You asked someone earlier did they read a particular post - did you read post #74....??

Several times, and failed to see that it has any relevance to the subject at hand; There are several apparently faulty items, and the course of action should normally be to take it up with the supplier, i.e. shop. The fact that the manufacturer, in this case (and others,) has seen fit to short-circuit that system, and offered replacements direct, without causing hassle to their outlets, would normally be seen as to their credit. Edited August 14, 2014 by Edgar

[tempestfan]

I'd be interested to see the actual words used by Airfix in their email to you [cossack52] re: dimple in the replacement canopy; I believe a formal (written) admission of a product defect, with no proposed rectification, would effectively provide grounds for refund/compensation under the SoGA... I'm not sure if Airfix would want to open themselves up to such a potentially large and costly action but I stand to be corrected...

I'd expect it to have the exact wording as that quoted by Edgar in #69.

I am quite certain that Airfix have outsourced not only the production, but also a QA/QC agreement with the company/ies doing the moulding, as this is the norm these day. If they drafted it right, it will not cost Airfix money (only a bit of reputation, perhaps) - if it actually is a fault in the moulding process, which it probably isn't. In any event, the problem appears to have been identified quite early on, possibly even in the QC process. Given the various "when will it finally appear ? It's long overdue !! 6th June has passed, what a missed opportunity !" posts I seem to have read, it looks to me that they have taken a deliberate decision to release the kit notwithstanding the problem. If that is the case, it would have made sense to include a sheet in the box explaining that there's a problem, but that any buyer may register with Airfix (or the dealer) to have problem-free replacements sent when the issue is finally eradicated. I think other companies have done that before, and Airfix themselves did something similar in their initial release of the Avro 504 45 years ago, with the difference that they included the errata decal sheet in the kit. Even if the problem only was discovered after initial dispatch, doing something like this may have made sense for the remaining stock (if there is any). In my experience, it is much better in cases like this to take the bull by the horns and communicate openly with the buyer. This would likely have saved them a significant strain on their spares department, in addition.

I have no idea about the legal situation in the UK or elsewhere, but where I live, the consumer has rights to make his claims against the seller, not the manufacturer, unless there's a special warranty the manufacturer promises to fulfill directly, or in cases of product liability. The direct spares service provided by the various manufacturers (at least the majority of the European ones) from the early days on is probably more a tradition, which should leave the rights against the seller unaffected. "Not fit for purpose" - had the kits a third of a wing missing due to incomplete injection, I guess that point would be out of question, and I see no material difference to a crack in a clear part that will be visible.

I will buy the kit once it has arrived in my LHS. And hope I don't have to bother the distributor or Airfix with a spare canopy request.

Edited August 14, 2014 by tempestfan

[Caution Wake Turbulence]

This appears to be the latest wording from Airfix:

http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=51645&p=593373

[keefr22]

Several times, and failed to see that it has any relevance to the subject at hand; There are several apparently faulty items, and the course of action should normally be to take it up with the supplier, i.e. shop. The fact that the manufacturer, in this case (and others,) has seen fit to short-circuit that system, and offered replacements direct, without causing hassle to their outlets, would normally be seen as to their credit.

OK, the fact that there have been similar problems with the transparent parts in seemingly all the new releases proir to this kit is of course not relevant! Airfix's 'short circuiting' the system may be to their credit - what isn't is their continuing release of new product with ongoing, known about, widely reported, recurring problems, and the fact their 'short circuiting' isn't actually solving the problem or in most cases even providing usuable & fit for purpose replacements.

But I'm fed up with flogging this particular dead equine, so I'll bow out now....

[Edgar]

OK, the fact that there have been similar problems with the transparent parts in seemingly all the new releases proir to this kit is of course not relevant!

Well, I'm holding the canopy sprue in the latest 1/48 Vb, which does not exhibit a single flow line, though there is a certain amount of refraction caused by the curvature of the blown canopies, so it doesn't appear to be relevant in this case.

Airfix's 'short circuiting' the system may be to their credit - what isn't is their continuing release of new product with ongoing, known about, widely reported, recurring problems, and the fact their 'short circuiting' isn't actually solving the problem or in most cases even providing usuable & fit for purpose replacements

Looking at said sprue, I'd argue with that, since it seems to lack these "recurring problems" of which you speak.

But I'm fed up with flogging this particular dead equine, so I'll bow out now....

Pity, really, since my replacement canopy has arrived (requested Tuesday, delivered - or, rather, chucked in my rubbish recycling box by the "postman" - today.) The "dimple" is not a physical item, more an "entity," which can be seen by turning the canopy until it catches the light, and is oval, about 1/4" long x 1/8" wide (metric enthusiasts multiply by 25.4 for the millimetres.) I can find no physical evidence, by fingertip examination, and it acts as a small magnifying glass over print; on plain colour it disappears. There is still a slight "aberration" in the windscreen, but that might react to a gentle treatment with Micromesh (or Klear, if I still had any.)

Edgar

Edited August 14, 2014 by Edgar

[redcap]

Got my replacement 1/24 Typhoon canopy yesterday and the crack is no longer present but the canopy itself is almost opaque in places. I give up and will now wait for an aftermarket vac replacement or something. Say what you like about Trumpeter kits, but when it comes to canopies, my Trump kits seen to have the best clear plastic on the market!

Gary

[markjames68]

How many people are there out there that got perfect canopys i wonder..?, the 2 kits myself and my son ordered from airfix the day they got them in were perfect, no cracks or distortion, i have no idea what this distortion looks like can somebody post a pic of it?

[Caution Wake Turbulence]

...is not a physical item, more an "entity,"...

Edgar, I'm really not sure what this means?

Andrew

[Iain Wyllie]

.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Iain Wyllie

[spike7451]

This was posted on the Arifix FB page earlier by an Adrian S****;

https://www.facebook.com/groups/officialairfixmodelling/?fref=ts

Okay folks listen up...

Today I went to the Hornby/Airfix offices at Margate and spoke, in person, with John Humphries, Customer Services, with regards the Airfix 1/24 Hawker Typhoon canopy issues...

First, I can assure you they are working on the issue.

Second they are aware that the "dimpled" canopies are not acceptable to all of us but in their words "a dimpled one is probably more acceptable that a cracked one".

The main issue is the communication with India, where the kits are manufactured. They are trying to find the cause of the issue and how to correct it, but it won't be an overnight resolution. It is believed that the parts are being taken out of the press when they are still too hot.

In the meantime they are sending out dimpled canopies for the cracked ones and they are also trying various things to see if they can resolve the issue with a "simple" fix like polishing it out.

John has personally been working on ways to resolve the issues.

So, the advice is this...

If you haven't requested a replacement canopy, do so via the spares service on the Airfix website.

If your replacement canopy is dimpled and this is not acceptable to you, reply to the customer services email, quoting your HcXXXXX number (will be in the email and on the box label) and state that it's unacceptable to you and that you would like to receive a defect free canopy....

Please remember you will probably have to wait some time for a defect free canopy.

If I get any updates from John I will post them to the group.

[Work In Progress]

Edgar, I'm really not sure what this means?

Andrew

I believe he means it is an optical artefact rather than a physical deformity in the plastic. A trick of the light: an optical illusion of a dimple.

There is certainly no evidence of a physical deformity on my replacement canopy. I haven't tried looking at it under different lighting conditions to see if I can make it exhibit any lensing effects

Edited August 14, 2014 by Work In Progress

[Edgar]

Edgar, I'm really not sure what this means?

Basically, I can see it (sometimes,) but can't feel it.