1/24 Tiffie canopy

[Work In Progress]

My new one is perfect. Same sprue layout as the original cracked one.

My understanding is that the cracked ones that we have all had are the revised sprue layout. The original canopy design was two-gate, and therefore prone to the flow lines that got them slagged off for the Lightning canopies - which is why they changed it to single gate, which necessarily leaves the canopy mechanically poorly supported.

The sagging at the rear which my first one had, and my second one doesn't have, is I believe not down to mould design at all, but down to the sprues being taken out of the mould too soon. Operator error in other words.

Dambuster: you seem to be conflating the question of a changed process with that of a changed mould (which would mean a visibly different sprue layout). They have not changed the mould from the cracked ones, but they do appear to have changed the process (possibly in terms of pressure, duration, heat, time left in mould or other variable etc.)

Edited August 9, 2014 by Work In Progress

[Tiger331]

I would imagine that postage charges within the UK are quite reasonable, so if the majority of Airfix's replacement parts are sent relatively locally (this should) not exactly break the Airfix bank.

On the contrary, the postage cost for my replacement 1/72 Zero canopy to be sent to Australia was GBP4.00. Not much less that the whole kit. I too have the Typhoon canopy issues and I am also awaiting some type of reply for the missing Spit Vb clear sprue.

I agree with some other sentiments above that although Airfix are quick to respond (for Typhoon issues), they do not seem to read our emails carefully.

Besides the Zero canopy (which was being built) I am in no hurry for the other two canopy sprues. I have suggested that they send both sets together to save on overseas postage, however somehow, somewhere this message seems to have been missed. Although I'm still confident that both my issues will be resolved - the apparent replies with sketchy information is getting a tad frustrating..

Cheers.. Dave.

Dave,

Yes, unfortunately, some of the staff at Airfix seem to have that 'condition' that afflicts so many other customer service organizations. There is an automatic assumption that they are dealing with an individual who demands an instant response or resolution to a problem when, quite often, they do not. I like to think that I am a reasonable and understanding individual and I quite often state, when contacting said organizations, that I am prepared to wait for a more satisfactory resolution of a problem rather than have my issue dealt with quickly and, often, not to my satisfaction. I understand that things go wrong and companies' experience issues that are beyond their control. I believe this to be the case with Airfix and the Typhoon.

Some individuals these days just seem to have an inability to actually read a full note or letter before entering in to a resolution of the problem that was not even asked for. This was the case with Airfix this week - I specifically stated that I was prepared to wait (weeks/months even) for a replacement canopy set because I would rather receive something that I could actually use than another sub-standard item which would necessitate more correspondence between me and them, which would have the knock-on effect of P£$%^&*g off both them and me in the long run - totally counter productive for both sides. Why is it that people simply cannot read something properly before going off on a tangent ??…Had the same problem with Dyson, Apple, Argos, Tesco's etc etc ….

Mark

[heloman1]

I received my Tiffy kit for my birthday on the 8th August and have just sent an e mail to Airfix re the crack problem too,.....I had not realised that it was a common problem until I saw this thread,.....oh dear! I had flow lines through the canopy on a new Airfix Lancaster too,......and after Colins remarks I`d better go and check my Merlin kit too,.....sounds like a recurring problem here?

Fingers crossed for my canopy,

Cheers

Tony

Tony, I can't belive you never checked your Merlin kit before consigning it to the stash. However it sounds like may be the same problem as with the Tuffy canopy.

Someday very soon they will have ROYAL NAVY paintined on the fuselages...

Colin

[Julien]

My replacement canopy does not have a crack. However still has a distortion on the top.

I cant see the point of asking for another replacement if its going to be the same.

I think they have tried to mold this one too thin. I know we all like thin canopies but if its too thin then you get distortions. My other 1.24 kits have thicker canopies but no problems. If Airfix could do this years ago makes you wonder why they cant do it now.

Julien

[dambuster]

When I received this I thought I would be getting a blemish free replacement. Sadly not, still distorted but crack free.

Dear Mr D[/size]

We are very sorry you have experienced problems with the product A19002.[/size]

The problem with the Q sprue, is not common to all the kits.[/size]

The sprue feed was changed to eliminate this problem.[/size]

We have been awaiting shipment of these sprue’s which have now arrived and are being packed for despatch 6th August.[/size]

Once again sorry for any inconvenience caused.[/size]

Regards[/size]

John Humphrys[/size]

My new one is perfect. Same sprue layout as the original cracked one.

My understanding is that the cracked ones that we have all had are the revised sprue layout. The original canopy design was two-gate, and therefore prone to the flow lines that got them slagged off for the Lightning canopies - which is why they changed it to single gate, which necessarily leaves the canopy mechanically poorly supported.

The sagging at the rear which my first one had, and my second one doesn't have, is I believe not down to mould design at all, but down to the sprues being taken out of the mould too soon. Operator error in other words.

Dambuster: you seem to be conflating the question of a changed process with that of a changed mould (which would mean a visibly different sprue layout). They have not changed the mould from the cracked ones, but they do appear to have changed the process (possibly in terms of pressure, duration, heat, time left in mould or other variable etc.)

WIP,

We know that the original tool had four gates - see photos from SMW 2013 and in Brett Green's book.

We know that distributed kits have so far had sprues with a single gate, and canopies have been cracking.

Replacements appear to be crack free but are still badly distorted. We may infer that the process was changed to prevent cracking.

However Airfix state in the quote above that they have 'changed the feed' and that 'these sprues were being packed for despatch after 6 Aug'.

Hence my request to find out how they have changed the new sprues and if this has also reduced the distortion/dimples.

I was not conflating the issue of a changed process with a changed tool, and we already know that there have been two tools.

Peter

[Mike]

I've just emailed Airfix to draw their attention to the rising tide of faulty canopies, as even our review sample has a small crack in the canopy - I've not noticed this "dimple" though, as I've only looked at it quicky because I was out all day yesterday. God it's big outside!

[noelh]

Some individuals these days just seem to have an inability to actually read a full note or letter before entering in to a resolution of the problem that was not even asked for. This was the case with Airfix this week - I specifically stated that I was prepared to wait (weeks/months even) for a replacement canopy set because I would rather receive something that I could actually use than another sub-standard item which would necessitate more correspondence between me and them, which would have the knock-on effect of P£$%^&*g off both them and me in the long run - totally counter productive for both sides. Why is it that people simply cannot read something properly before going off on a tangent ??…Had the same problem with Dyson, Apple, Argos, Tesco's etc etc ….

Mark

You have to remember the nature of the job in many of these companies. Gone are the days when it was 'old Bob' sitting in his little corner dealing with customer issues. You could pick up the phone and have a chat with him and he would put aside your request and when the part arrived he would post it with a personal note. It doesn't work like that anymore in customer support. There's targets to meet, scripted replies and standard reactions to every problem. Quite often the person you speak to or write to is somewhere remote from the factory and as you well know it's nearly impossible to contact the same person twice in a call centre.

So the simply don't have a facility for putting a request aside. The individual might not even be working there next week.

We've certainly lost something of the personal service that was once normal.

[andyrowe]

Received my replacements for the replacements (if that makes sense) yesterday. They are as bad, if not worse than the first replacements. That's after Airfix's email stating that the moulds have been adjusted to fix the problem and the new canopies were on the way. Unbelievable. I have now sent Hornby Customer Care a lengthy email as I have had clear part problems on several of my Airfix kits in the past which have never been resolved. Waiting for the reply.

Above is what I have uploaded to another forum site. I have 13 Airfix kits with clear part problems, mostly flow lines. The worst affected are the 1/48 Javelin, 1/48 Army Lynx, 1/48 Spit PR.XIX, 1/72 Lanc B.II, 1/72 Lightning & 1/72 Vampire T.11. Some replacements sent, all as bad as the originals. None yet sent have been adequate. Still waiting.

Edited August 9, 2014 by andyrowe

[Work In Progress]

WIP,

We know that the original tool had four gates - see photos from SMW 2013 and in Brett Green's book.

We know that distributed kits have so far had sprues with a single gate, and canopies have been cracking.

Replacements appear to be crack free but are still badly distorted. We may infer that the process was changed to prevent cracking.

However Airfix state in the quote above that they have 'changed the feed' and that 'these sprues were being packed for despatch after 6 Aug'.

Hence my request to find out how they have changed the new sprues and if this has also reduced the distortion/dimples.

I was not conflating the issue of a changed process with a changed tool, and we already know that there have been two tools.

Peter

Well, whatever you know, what I know is that my cracked and saggy original and my perfect replacement have identical sprues and came out of the same tooling. There is zero distortion on my new canopy. So that says to me that they are using the same mould as theey used when my kit was manufacturered, but that they are using that mould differently, i.e. a process change.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Work In Progress

[Monty Python]

Thought my replacement was better than the original but have since noticed a big blemish on the top part of the canopy. This is only visible when the canopy is held up to the light.

The replacement sprue had the canopy attached by one gate, same as the original. At least this one was not cracked.

[Dave Batt]

Just a comment; I too have had cause to get a replacement canopy and IMHO it's far better than the original cracked canopy. To me the crack was glaringly obvious while the blemish is there but barely visible only if the canopy is 'inspected' rather than just looked at, and when the model is finished I'd hope that onlookers would be more interested in the contents of the cockpit rather than its lid.

I think that Airfix have really pushed the envelope in their design and production processes with this kit and sometimes, just sometimes, the corners of the envelope get a bit crumpled, which is what appears to have happened here. Keep it in context (how many of us are really going to trash-can the whole kit on the basis of one part) and just think; maybe there is a BAe Hawk or Westland Whirlwind SuperKit in the offing which would require that this particular problem is worked through.

Now, is there a Tombola running on if/when A2Zee will turn out a car-door conversion?

[Biggles87]

Now, is there a Tombola running on if/when A2Zee will turn out a car-door conversion?

I'll go for Sept 3rd. I'm going to display mine in a darkened room so that any cracks/blemishes will not be noticed.

[andyrowe]

Just got the 'How To Build' for the Airfix 1/24 Typhoon. After a quick flick through, saw two statements by the authors/modeller's that the canopy is 'beautifully thin and distortion free'. If it's possible on the test shots, why is it not possible for the full production kits? The test shots were probably provided free whereas the paying public have to make do with shoddy examples.

[Julien]

My replacement was exactly the same tooling as the first no crack but the distortion still there.

Currently considering my next email to Airfix.

The original canopies on the 1/24 Hurricane, Spit etc were free from errors so the technology is not exactly "new"

[cossack52]

i think that part of the problem is not having a modeller in the service dept.i was quite scathing about some humbrol paint in a complaint i made.to give hornby credit,someone from the service dept actually rang me;when i explained the problems and frustrations of defective paint,he said he'd send me a tin of the same batch,and a bottle of humbrol thinners to make sure i was using the right thinners!4 weeks later,neither of the above have arrived.i also complained that the decal sheet of my 48 scale bf109e,with roumanian option,was faulty,not responding to any known decal setting solution,and that i'd first tried humbrol decafix,which didn't affect the decal,but left a rock hard whiteish residue which i can't get off.they sent me a further exanmple of the same decal sheet within 2 days.the personnel in the service dept obviously don't understand how annoying these problems can be

[Spookytooth]

My replacement was exactly the same tooling as the first no crack but the distortion still there.

Currently considering my next email to Airfix.

The original canopies on the 1/24 Hurricane, Spit etc were free from errors so the technology is not exactly "new"

I agree about that Julien.

I can remember when they were released originally, also the pre released those Typhoon kits had no issues with canopies.

Simon.

[Work In Progress]

However the Spitfire and Hurricane canopies are twice as thick. The Typhoon canopy is pretty much scale thickness, which undoubtedly makes it a lot harder to produce.

[Julien]

However the Spitfire and Hurricane canopies are twice as thick. The Typhoon canopy is pretty much scale thickness, which undoubtedly makes it a lot harder to produce.

Yes I agree, however would have rather had a slightly thicker canopy with no problems than a thin one with a distortion.

Julien

[noelh]

So hard to produce apparently that most of them are defective and apparently the QC at their Indian factory is entirely lacking and their customer service is incapable of sorting out the good from the bad and are replacing faulty parts with faulty parts.

Like the one I received this morning which if anything is worse than my originals except for the crack.

Also in view of the comments made earlier by Tiger and myself about customer service. This is borne out again by their failure to send me the other transparent parts which were entirely missing from my kit and which I carefully highlighted in my email to them. But I just knew they wouldn't be in the box when I opened it and this was borne out.

At this point my patience and I suspect that of many others is now worn thinner than the canopy itself.

Airfix have made a huge gaff on this issue and are compounding it by failing to fix it properly or even publicly acknowledging it.

[MilneBay]

Oh Gosh how the mighty have fallen - the wunderkit of the decade and now we are all uptight about the canopy. Remind me never to become a plastic kit manufacturer. All I can see is evidence that Airfix are rectifying the problem as fast as they can - pity some other manufacturers can't do the same.

[andrewfl290]

This is going on a bit and there are pages and pages in the Typhoon in Stock thread on this. Yeah, mine was just the same, replacement just the same but I don't see that it needed a dedicated thread.

[noelh]

Oh Gosh how the mighty have fallen - the wunderkit of the decade and now we are all uptight about the canopy. Remind me never to become a plastic kit manufacturer. All I can see is evidence that Airfix are rectifying the problem as fast as they can - pity some other manufacturers can't do the same.

Since when is sending out equally flawed parts rectifying the problem? Sure the original problem was unfortunate, a manufacturing issue. But they won't resolve it by replacing bad parts with bad parts and yes this is the wunderkit, the Airfix flagship eagerly awaited and much hyped. No one would care much if was a 1/72 model. But this is an expensive purchase and you are entitled to expect better.

In my case the replacement is completely unusable that would be fine if I was the only one but I'm not. It's a pure lottery whether or not you would get a good canopy in your kit or when it's replaced.

Plus it's not as if it isn't easy to fix. Simply make a batch properly as per specs and then issue them. I'm not sure why that isn't happening.

[Biggles87]

Mine arrived today, no cracks but more distortion than the original!. I think I'll wait 'till the dust settles and try again, having seen many comments about the replacements I should have waited anyway, but most modellers are not noted for their patience.

[Work In Progress]

Simply make a batch properly as per specs and then issue them. I'm not sure why that isn't happening.

I like that "Simply."

If you are an injection moulding expert with a depth of understanding possessed neither by Airfix nor by the people in India attempting to manufacture a kit which pushes the state of the art, you should perhaps advise Airfix, maybe offer to pop over and show them where they are going wrong.

It is self-evident that "this isn't happening" because they do not yet know how to make the tooling deliver consistently acceptable results. Injection moulding is a black art: it is not just connect all the equipment and switch it on. A complex injection moulding tool is not a miracle with a starter button.

Their current propensity for sending out obviously unacceptable replacement to people is an avoidable own-goal, but the idea that you can just hand-wave everything perfect in the manufacturing process does not reflect the reality of the business.

With hindsight it might have been better to not attempt to redefine the state of the art with the canopy on this kit and do an old fashioned thick one as on the Spitfire and Hurricane. Or, as it is never going to be the highest volume kit, do a Rob Taurus style vac-form one. Who knows, perhaps they may have to retool and fall back to that position. But meanwhile they are starting from where they are, not from where they might prefer to be.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Work In Progress

[Caution Wake Turbulence]

Airfix seem to have cracked the problem with the cracking, if you'll excuse the pun, but do we know if they are actually trying to do anything about the distortion?

It seems that very nearly all of the replacements (my own included) still suffer from this...

Andrew