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I've got the old Historex punch and die set which I got a few years ago. Like this one:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/26338-historex-punch-die-set/

It was a lot cheaper - but not as good seemingly as the Waldron one - and anyway I'm not sure you can still get it. I would probably get the Waldron one given the choice between the two again.

However I have just seen this from RP Toolz (whilst googling to see if the old Historex set was still available):

http://www.historexagents.com/shop/hxproductdetail.php?ProductCode=RPTPD

Which looks quite interesting as well :). Its metric - which is useful and has more punches than the Waldron. It starts at 0.5mm tho' which is fractionally larger than the 0.018 inch (0.46 mm) of the Waldron. I quite like the look of it - but not seen any reviews.

Added by Edit. The RP Toolz punch gets a very good review here:

http://www.scaleplasticandrail.com/kaboom/index.php/all-other-subjects/all-things-tools/73-cutting-tools/2118-punch-die-sets-from-rp-toolz

Edited by Fritag

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So here we go, doing the unthinkable. Making a frikking canopy.
]
It seems to work fine on plastic sheet when connected to a Dyson.

Edited by dr_gn

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I've got the old Historex punch and die set which I got a few years ago. Like this one:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/26338-historex-punch-die-set/

It was a lot cheaper - but not as good seemingly as the Waldron one - and anyway I'm not sure you can still get it. I would probably get the Waldron one given the choice between the two again.

However I have just seen this from RP Toolz (whilst googling to see if the old Historex set was still available):

http://www.historexagents.com/shop/hxproductdetail.php?ProductCode=RPTPD

Which looks quite interesting as well :). Its metric - which is useful and has more punches than the Waldron. It starts at 0.5mm tho' which is fractionally larger than the 0.018 inch (0.46 mm) of the Waldron. I quite like the look of it - but not seen any reviews.

Added by Edit. The RP Toolz punch gets a very good review here:

http://www.scaleplasticandrail.com/kaboom/index.php/all-other-subjects/all-things-tools/73-cutting-tools/2118-punch-die-sets-from-rp-toolz

Thanks Fritag, I'll peruse those tomorrow and get something ordered. The smallest leather punch I've got is just over 3mm diameter.

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This is proving to be an interesting thread. I think that Vac forming machine would be a useful piece of kit. I think I'll check them out on ebay.

Regarding Punch and Die sets I picked up one of these last year by an Italian Company called Armour Extra Detail.

http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/tools/aed/aedpd.htm

I've used it and it is a great piece of kit although I sometimes wish it could do larger sizes.

I got mine from Huddersfield Last Year from Little Cars and I think it was about £55 and it's one of those tools you cant to without once you've owned one.

The Tornado is coming along really nicely by the way.

Regards,

Mark

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I got mine from Huddersfield Last Year from Little Cars and I think it was about £55 and it's one of those tools you cant to without once you've owned one.

+1

I received the Waldron punch and die set as a gift sometime back in the 1980s and I had no idea that I wanted or needed it at the time. My wife bought it from an advertisement in a modelling magazine. Now that I have it, I've found it's indispensable.

Cheers,

Bill

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So what's the difference between clamping some perspex over a steel plate, dowelling them together, then drilling through with a selection of micro drills? If you then turned each drill upside down, grind the end flat and glue the fluted ends into some steel rod offcuts, isn't that basically a punch and die set for about £10?

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Ah - but we're not all PhD design engineers are we G?

And some of us are lazy as well :)

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So what's the difference between clamping some perspex over a steel plate, dowelling them together, then drilling through with a selection of micro drills? If you then turned each drill upside down, grind the end flat and glue the fluted ends into some steel rod offcuts, isn't that basically a punch and die set for about £10?

A punch makes a hole by shearing the material around the edge; a common twist drill makes a hole by boring through the material. Therefore the direction and distribution of the forces are different. Both can be easy and effective for thin substrates. As the material get thicker, though, a drill is preferred.

Here is something to consider - a punch makes not only a hole, but also a disc, both in the same operation. A drill will get you a hole, but the disc is destroyed during the drilling process.

Punches can be shapes other than round (try that with a rotary drill). Yes, you can also do this with a milling machine, but they cost a bit more than a punch!

Cheers,

Bill

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A punch makes a hole by shearing the material around the edge; a common twist drill makes a hole by boring through the material. Therefore the direction and distribution of the forces are different. Both can be easy and effective for thin substrates. As the material get thicker, though, a drill is preferred.

Here is something to consider - a punch makes not only a hole, but also a disc, both in the same operation. A drill will get you a hole, but the disc is destroyed during the drilling process.

Punches can be shapes other than round (try that with a rotary drill). Yes, you can also do this with a milling machine, but they cost a bit more than a punch!

Cheers,

Bill

Bill - you didn't follow what I wrote :-) I'm saying form the holes by drilling - that forms the die, then use the back of the drill as the punch.

We're after a pure shearing force around the circumference of the hole, and that can only by generated by a perfect fit of the punch in the die (in reality there has to be a small clearance to prevent the punch sticking in the die). A drill will always drill a hole bigger than the nominal size of the drill (due to various factors), so the question is, is the fit of a drill in it's own drilled hole the correct tolerance for shearing tape and thin plastic at these diameters? If it is - happy days.

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Bill - you didn't follow what I wrote :-) I'm saying form the holes by drilling - that forms the die, then use the back of the drill as the punch.

We're after a pure shearing force around the circumference of the hole, and that can only by generated by a perfect fit of the punch in the die (in reality there has to be a small clearance to prevent the punch sticking in the die). A drill will always drill a hole bigger than the nominal size of the drill (due to various factors), so the question is, is the fit of a drill in it's own drilled hole the correct tolerance for shearing tape and thin plastic at these diameters? If it is - happy days.

You're right, I didn't follow that. Oops.

I think the clearance required between the punch and the die depends on both the size of the punch AND the thickness of the material you're cutting. As both get larger, you need more clearance. This is why most hobby punch and die sets are only used on thin stock, otherwise everything becomes bespoke. Also, the "cutting" edges that do the shearing (on both the punch and die) are sharp - they're made from tool steel so they stay sharp for a long time. Dull scissors are no fun.

As far as the shank being a smaller diameter than what the tip/flutes of a drill cuts, that's true - the amount is called the back taper. How that relates to the clearance required for a punch/die combination...uh, I don't know. Typically, though, for a common twist drill, the shank diameter is not what you would call "precision." :)

We're lucky with our game because it's only styrene we're talking about blasting our way through. Like a knife through butter...

Cheers,

Bill

PS. Well, have you built one of these five and dime punch sets yet? :)

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Hey, I found a die clearance calculator on-line:

http://www.toolanddie.com/~smgr2/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=T&Product_Code=DICLI-DIE_CLEARANCE&Category_Code=DICLI

It even lists plastic as a material. May be of some use?

Cheers,

Bill

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I'll have a read through that reference later - thanks for posting.

Thing is - I could get one made at work to stupid tolerances...but where's the fun in that?

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I'll have a read through that reference later - thanks for posting.

Thing is - I could get one made at work to stupid tolerances...but where's the fun in that?

Stupid tolerances? Like microns? At work? For free? Sounds like fun to me! :)

Cheers,

Bill

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I would take the extra away G

unless you make complicated measures to take air out of the frame corners (maybe with holes drilled through acupuncture needles, where DID I see that?) the unnwanted material will cause mismouldings

I usually try to get an overlap with the extra Milliput so the stretch goes all the way across the mould

This picture shows what I mean, doing it like this lets me be in control of the final shape and size

830cd4d9-0511-4945-a85c-9d51bde5da66_zps

I must get some release agent, that has popped out rather nicely

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Evening Dr,

My initial thought would be that the plastic won't get right into the corners, personally I'd remove all the raised edges.

This is getting exciting now!

Eng

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black pen, just slightly outside where to cut

Cut out with sharp blade

Shave to trim, gently to shape

I would be making the frame with hinge lifters separately to the glazing, if you leave it on the glazing you can still add extra outside frameworks later

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Could you scratch the frame? Then you don't have the issue of the flared out bits along the bottom either.

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Could you scratch the frame? Then you don't have the issue of the flared out bits along the bottom either.

That would be the best solution in a lot of ways, but I guess the big downside is attaching the lower frames along a 0.5mm thick edge, and them still having enough strength so they don't flop about. The current plan is to overlay new plasticard lower frames on the formed ones, maybe even do away with the hinge covers and use an extension of the overlayed frames to form them. I honestly don't know until I have a go - this is new territory.

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black pen, just slightly outside where to cut

Cut out with sharp blade

Shave to trim, gently to shape

I would be making the frame with hinge lifters separately to the glazing, if you leave it on the glazing you can still add extra outside frameworks later

Yes, but how do I know where the black pen should be if I've filed off the peripheral step all around?

I need to somehow retain a visual indication of where that periphery is, otherwise I'll be triming it blind. That's why I thought a scribed line around the step would remain even when the step has gone. I could fill the inscribed line with ink as a visual cutting guide if it turns out the hot plastic wouldn't flow into it to form a witness (which was my initial thought).

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As ever my mind doing short cuts without explaining what I mean sorry :(

On the Millput buck mark where the canopy was when you filled it, then after making the moulded piece lay it over and mark the new piece to that line

Slip the old canopy (after you cleaned off any debris from moulding over Milliput), back onto the buck

It will go almost anywhere on there but will stop wriggling when it is at the proper place you need to use as the datum

mark it from there

You will soon sort this out and I can't see you ever looking at a kit canopy and saying, "yes that is thin enough for me"

;)

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As ever my mind doing short cuts without explaining what I mean sorry :(

On the Millput buck mark where the canopy was when you filled it, then after making the moulded piece lay it over and mark the new piece to that line

Slip the old canopy (after you cleaned off any debris from moulding over Milliput), back onto the buck

It will go almost anywhere on there but will stop wriggling when it is at the proper place you need to use as the datum

mark it from there

You will soon sort this out and I can't see you ever looking at a kit canopy and saying, "yes that is thin enough for me"

;)

Perdu, right - use the original canopy as a template. That makes sense, thanks.

How about scribing rather than drawing around it?

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Deleted - somehow posted the same thing twice.......Muppet

Edited by Fritag

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