Ken Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Looking at the Italeri Sunderland whilst on my death bed with Man 'Flu, I noticed once again the way the tank covers have been finished and I see that the projected e/b set from Eduard is following the same pattern. The only reference that I can find to the 'bars' is from the set of drawings in Warpaint and nowhere else. I've searched all my photographic references + various paper ones including the A-B publication, Google etc.,but cannot find any photographic evidence to support Italeri's repro. Does anyone have photo. evidence to confirm their existence on any of the Sunderland versions please ? Many thanks before the Angel of Death arrives and the wife stops contacting dealers over my stash Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) Hi Ken Only the Mk I and early Mk II's had the cross bars over the fuel tank covers, the Mk III/V didn't have the cross bar- Italeri's representation is incorrect for the Mk III - the warpaint drawings are not correct either so don't count on them. In all my references I have not been able to find a decent photo of the Mk I tanks. However the Short Sunderland Mk I maintenance manual specifies they are provided on the tanks. EDIT: Scrolling through my copy of Ian Allens Sunderland at war, there is a decent shot of a Mk I Fuel tank without any cross over - its most likely that only the earlier production Mk I's had this fitted hence the mention in the Mk I Sunderland manual. I think that as production engineering became more advanced the crossovers were considered obsolete, as more advanced ways of securing the fuel tank covers were found. This would have most likely rolled on to Mk II's (early production) also as both Mk I & II would have shared the production line at some point. If you click on this youtube clip, this is a Mk II Sunderland (late production), you can see some decent shots of the wing and tanks, no cross bars This is the wing of a Mk III Transport (same aircraft, just no turrets etc) you can see the tank between the two engines and no cross bar. http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m169/flyernzl/short%20boats/NZ4104a.jpg These are Mk V's (post war) and you can see there are only plain covers over the tanks -wings are exactly the same as the Mk III http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m169/flyernzl/short%20boats/NZ4117d_dn.jpg http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m169/flyernzl/short%20boats/NZ4113m_dn.jpg http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m169/flyernzl/short%20boats/NZ4114k_dn.jpg I've not seen the directions for the Eduard Photo Etch, but going by their display on their website thay have the tank covers sitting on the wing, when they should be flush. Hope that helps? Regards Alan Edited July 7, 2014 by LDSModeller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted July 7, 2014 Author Share Posted July 7, 2014 Many thanks for that, Alan as it confirms my suspicions that Eduard were going to make the same mistake not to mention Italeri (again), Fortunately the test shots of the SH Sunderland that I saw a few weeks ago have the correct wing detailing Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Test shots of the SH Mk V? Does that mean that we might see it before the end of the century?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Many thanks for that, Alan as it confirms my suspicions that Eduard were going to make the same mistake not to mention Italeri (again), Fortunately the test shots of the SH Sunderland that I saw a few weeks ago have the correct wing detailing Ken There's alot more Special Hobby can get wrong with the wings apart from having cross bars over the main fuel tanks. For both the Mk III/IIIa & V: The rear wing tanks behind the rear spar could be missing The oil coolers exits should have covers over them - not open like the Mk I The J type life raft storage on Staboard wing probably won't be there. Do the tracks for the bomb racks, have inserts, for when the racks are inside the fuselage - you don't see the tracks when the racks are in. (And the Sunderland at Duxford has the thin strips missing, which would normally cover the tracks - just in case anyone brings that up). I hope SH don't follow Italeri in having panel lines on the Gouge flaps - there aren't any. As well as making the flap short, when it extends to the fuselage. The Aileron well upper lip should have a slight curve to it, curving out to the wing tip. The wing tip port/starboard lights are clear, not "Red or Green" like Italeri have them. Will the lower Port wing have the three Identification lights found on all marks of Sunderland? There are small vents and panels top and bottom that should be there -though in 1/72 thay may be too small. Regards Alan Edited July 8, 2014 by LDSModeller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Test shots of the SH Mk V? Does that mean that we might see it before the end of the century?? Let's put it this way - I won't be standing outside my LMS waiting for it to open for a little while yet Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 There's alot more Special Hobby can get wrong with the wings apart from having cross bars over the main fuel tanks. For both the Mk III/IIIa & V: The rear wing tanks behind the rear spar could be missing The oil coolers exits should have covers over them - not open like the Mk I The J type life raft storage on Staboard wing probably won't be there. Do the tracks for the bomb racks, have inserts, for when the racks are inside the fuselage - you don't see the tracks when the racks are in. (And the Sunderland at Duxford has the thin strips missing, which would normally cover the tracks - just in case anyone brings that up). I hope SH don't follow Italeri in having panel lines on the Gouge flaps - there aren't any. As well as making the flap short, when it extends to the fuselage. The Aileron well upper lip should have a slight curve to it, curving out to the wing tip. The wing tip port/starboard lights are clear, not "Red or Green" like Italeri have them. Will the lower Port wing have the three Identification lights found on all marks of Sunderland? There are small vents and panels top and bottom that should be there -though in 1/72 thay may be too small. Regards Alan Bloody Hell ! I didn't have me micrometer with me nor a tape measure but what I saw looked very nice during the fleeting visit. The hull has obviously been produced in such a way as to enable all military versions to be be produced and there ain't no trenches to worry about. The wings looked OK at first glance but then I moved on to other matters. No doubt that when it does finally appear, the kit will either be applauded or panned Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Bloody Hell ! I didn't have me micrometer with me nor a tape measure but what I saw looked very nice during the fleeting visit. The hull has obviously been produced in such a way as to enable all military versions to be be produced and there ain't no trenches to worry about. The wings looked OK at first glance but then I moved on to other matters. No doubt that when it does finally appear, the kit will either be applauded or panned Ken Hi Ken Didn't mean to give you a heart attack To be honest I don't think most modellers would even notice, and many of those listed above can easily be fixed by your average modeller. Muck like the Italeri Mk III can be fixed with it's inherent flaws. The one bonus is that the SH Sunderland has a reasonably accurate interior for starters, so even if I had to sort out the wing issues, the interior is one less issue to concern me. I'd still buy at least 4 Regards Alan Edited July 8, 2014 by LDSModeller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Has anyone got an actual photo of the 'strap' across the tank? All I have seen is plans and drawings. This one is a Sandringham, Could it be a mis-interpretation of an item under the skin of the wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 No sign of the 'straps' on this Mk I fuel tank https://www.flickr.com/photos/g1ff/5939221273/ or on this one http://www.tripadvisor.ca/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g1096832-i41437022-Pembroke_Dock_Pembrokeshire_Wales.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Wyllie Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) nt Edited August 5, 2014 by Iain Wyllie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 The discussion is about the covers which form part of the wing upper surface. And the lack of pictures thereof..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) No sign of the 'straps' on this Mk I fuel tank https://www.flickr.com/photos/g1ff/5939221273/ or on this one http://www.tripadvisor.ca/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g1096832-i41437022-Pembroke_Dock_Pembrokeshire_Wales.html Hi Ed Those fuel tanks actually sit below the wing skin level, and have a another cover that sits over the top which is where the "cross over" part comes in. You can see in this photo link where the tanks have been removed from NZ4115 for refurbishment, the inner lip area where the covers sit into over the actual tank. http://i1274.photobucket.com/albums/y428/777219/Sunderland%20NZ4115/Sunderland050_zps281bbbfe.jpg The only part of the fuel tank that is flush with the top cover is the opening for the fuel to be put into the tank. The Mk I Sunderland manual refers to the cross over item as a "Hand Hold" and goes into detail about removing it prior to removing the outer tank cover. As to why it doesn't appear in too many, if any photos ??? See my first post re the manufacturing. Regards Alan Edited July 12, 2014 by LDSModeller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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