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All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here


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1 hour ago, StevSmar said:

I was thinking of a (colour) photo showing a tatty FAA Hurricane that showed equally bad flaking, if I come across it I'll post it.

4162925396_eac3dbda9e_o.jpgHawker Sea Hurricane Mk.1a by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Despite it being captioned frequently as a Sea Hurricane, it's just an old Mk.I in Naval Training unit,  given the freshness of the fuselage roundel, mid 1942 or maybe even later.   So poor old P3090 has been knocking about for 2 years 

 

Air Britain  - P3090, 242, to Admiralty 4.41

 

PS

1014-25-2-1.jpg

note also the 3 different spinner types fitted

 

 

http://armahobbynews.pl/en/blog/2019/06/25/hawker-hurricane-mk-i-navalised-versions/

 

Hawker Hurricane Mk I, P3090/W-8E, 760 Squadron FAA, part of the Naval Air Fighter School based at RNAS Yeovilton, Summer 1942.

 

hurricane-navy-07.jpg

 

 

hurricane-navy-16.jpg

 

Pics from our own @tonyot

 

 

 

HTH

 

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22 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

1) Hawker Sea Hurricane Mk.1a by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr...Air Britain  - P3090, 242, to Admiralty 4.41...

 

2) ...note also the 3 different spinners fitted...

 

3) http://armahobbynews.pl/en/blog/2019/06/25/hawker-hurricane-mk-i-navalised-versions/

Hawker Hurricane Mk I, P3090/W-8E, 760 Squadron FAA, part of the Naval Air Fighter School based at RNAS Yeovilton, Summer 1942...

1) That was the photo I was thinking of. 

 

2) That is a great photo showing the three spinners in on shot.

 

3) Nice article by @tonyot!

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Just had a book called “Polish Fighter Colours 1939-1947” show up and it has  45 pages dedicated to the Hurricane.

 

I’m pleased I’ve added it to my collection.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

This is the most exceptionally painted Hurricane I knew.  It is the only one that has the bottom surfaces painted in two colors. I suspect it is the result of experiments carried out in May/June 1941 in 56th Squadron.  Among the boring and repetitive camouflages that Hurricane wore, it is simply unique. Unfortunately I do not have any other photo showing code letters or serial number. The code letter looks like S or J. If only I had those missing elements, I would definitely like to build such a painted model of Arma Hobby. Will you help to write its story?

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Very interesting indeed, although it does seem that the uppersurface wraps around the leading edge rather than covers the whole of the undersurface.  Still a very odd appearance, with the light colour wrapping round but not the darker, the underside dark but not the wheel door, and a very high contrast on the uppersurface.  The spinner suggests a Mk.IIA or very late Mk.I, so it may be an early application of the Intruder scheme with Medium Sea Grey over TLS with a Night underside - but that doesn't explain the u/c door nor what appears to be a light (Sky) colour under the centre-section and radiator.  Is this a repaired aircraft at an MU awaiting full repaint?  Or a hybrid in the hands of trainees?

 

I have seen a Mk.IIB with such a high contrast, at a time when the unit was carrying out some night intruder missions.

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6 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Not however a standard Mk.II tailwheel.

This is a standard tailwheel from the first months of Mk.II production. 

I could already give a picture with changed contrast in the first post. 

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Very interesting indeed, although it does seem that the uppersurface wraps around the leading edge rather than covers the whole of the undersurface.  Still a very odd appearance, with the light colour wrapping round but not the darker, the underside dark but not the wheel door, and a very high contrast on the uppersurface.  The spinner suggests a Mk.IIA or very late Mk.I, so it may be an early application of the Intruder scheme with Medium Sea Grey over TLS with a Night underside - but that doesn't explain the u/c door nor what appears to be a light (Sky) colour under the centre-section and radiator.  Is this a repaired aircraft at an MU awaiting full repaint?  Or a hybrid in the hands of trainees?

 

I have seen a Mk.IIB with such a high contrast, at a time when the unit was carrying out some night intruder missions.

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But the first production Mk.IIs were Mk.IIA.  So a Mk.IIB with this would be rare.  That it lacks the underwing fairing may suggest that it is indeed an earIy Mk.IIB.   However, I didn't ask for a photo with increased contrast, I was referring the the contrast between the two uppersurface colours.

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On 9/20/2020 at 5:28 PM, Troy Smith said:

... KZ191,  no.  I don't think so.  Photos i posted show parts to be be green-ish.  AFAIK, Alumium paint does not go green with age.  and it spent years outside, on a dump, in  the middle east...

 

...Yes.  But Aluminum dope pretty much always shows up with a shiny sheen, whatever the film. Grey Green looks matt. 

I spoke with the owner of KZ191, he advised that the fuselage framework is painted silver.

 

I was hoping to talk to a curator at the National Air and Space Museum to see about getting a few more photos of the cockpit of their Hurricane, unfortunately it will have to wait until they open up again after COVID-19 settles down a bit in their location.

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I spoke with the author of an upcoming book on the RCAF and in his draft he has the following statement with respect to the RCAF's early Hurricanes: "On 27th of October 1940, number 1 squadron RCAF requested permission to buy locally 5-gallons each of dark earth and dark green "camouflage paint"".

 

This highlights how although there were likely "official" formulations of paint, local sources would be used if required and these paint supplies would not be the same colour as the "official" colour. They might be close in particular conditions, but they won't look close under all light sources and photographic technologies.

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There’s a nice article in the January 2021 edition of Finescale Modeller called 44 Shades of Olive Drab, by Danielle Righi.

 

It provides an interesting overview of how one colour, Olive Drab, can have many different shades depending on who produced it and weathering.

 

(Seeing this article reminded me of the 50 Shades of Silver...)

 

 

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Well spotted.  Possibly fixed down/left down to avoid unnecessary work?  Does it return automatically or does it have to be manually restowed before flight?  Basically, at this stage of its life and role who would care?  One of the other aircraft in the formation is similarly showing its step.

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29 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Possibly fixed down/left down to avoid unnecessary work?

ISTR it's linked to the hand-hold, which is also folded inwards. 

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Is this a metal wing on the prototype slip wing Hurricane?

 

I’m also intrigued with what the fitting is in front of the outboard edge of the Port flap?

 

Slip Wing Hurricane

 

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Hi Steve,

The Hurri in question was AG321 that arrived for the trials with fabric wings but were exchanged for metal ones.

I'll send you my complete file on the slip wing project via WeTransfer shortly.

 

Cheers

Dave

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3 hours ago, tango98 said:

Hi Steve,

The Hurri in question was AG321 that arrived for the trials with fabric wings but were exchanged for metal ones.

I'll send you my complete file on the slip wing project via WeTransfer shortly.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Not AG321. It's just # 321, one of the 20 fabric-winged Hurricanes bought by the RCAF in 1939 and then sent back to Britain, in 1940, with No.1 (F) RCAF.

 

 

 

Chris

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Hi Chris,

Yes, I'm aware of the Canadian connection for 321 (L1884) but in all of my files on the slip wing project it is consistently referred to as AG321 save in one instance

in a letter from the RTO at Hawkers to F.Hills & Sons on 12 March 1943 where it is identified as Hurricane Mk.1 aircraft No.321.

 

Cheers

Dave

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1 hour ago, tango98 said:

Hi Chris,

Yes, I'm aware of the Canadian connection for 321 (L1884) but in all of my files on the slip wing project it is consistently referred to as AG321 save in one instance

in a letter from the RTO at Hawkers to F.Hills & Sons on 12 March 1943 where it is identified as Hurricane Mk.1 aircraft No.321.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

 

In what little I have read of the slip-wing, I have never read of the AG321 serial number. It's just 321.

But then, I haven't done any real research into that subject.

 

 

 

Chris

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1.            At least one photo shows the fuselage serial as 321 without a trace of an AG.

2.            Here is the service history of 321. I got the UK portion from an Air Britain article, I believe by Phil Butler although I cannot be certain.                                                                                                    

 

321      TOS 22/05/39

3 RD Jericho Beach (storage) 22/05/39; CCF (winterization trials aircraft) 20/02/40; to Halifax for shipment overseas 25/05/40.  Shipped overseas late May 1940.                                                                                                                                      13 Mu 23/06/40; 1(F) RCAF 03/07/40, 6 OTU 03/07/40; 7 OTU 04/07/40; 5 OTU 13/08/40; 48 MU 02/06/41; 8 FTS 17/07/41; Hawkers R1W 11/10/41; RAE Farnborough 30/01/42; F. Hills & Sons 13/04/42; Cat B MR 16/13/44; AW/CN 30/05/44.  Presumed SOS 21/06/47.

 

 

3.            Now, as far as AG321 is concerned, I have reasonably good information on its early career. In December 1941 it was reported as being one of 60 Hurricanes in storage at Canadian Car & Foundry awaiting engines. At that point, the RCAF was desperate for fighters having its Kittyhawk deliveries preempted by the US and an arrangement was made with the UK to have all 60 of these aircraft transferred to the RCAF (Program 36) which service would be responsible for providing engines etc. etc. etc. these aircraft were randomly renumbered in the RCAF serial series 1351 to 1410. AG321 was allotted RCAF serials 1404. However, before delivery, sometime in January, ACM Portal visited Canada and persuaded the RCAF to reduce Program 36 from 60 to 30. As a result, AG321, some time presumably in early 1942, ended up with the RAF (though I sincerely doubt with fabric wings). Air Arsenal North America notes it as being transferred to Russia.

 4.           My guess is simply that the people concerned were incapable of comprehending the fact of an RCAF serial number and pulled the AG prefix out of some kind of fantasy hat.

Carl

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Somehow the beginning of my posting got left out.

Regarding the question of whether the slip-wing Hurricane was RCAF serial 321 or RAF serial AG321, I pass on the following thoughts, for what they may be worth.

1.            At least one photo shows the fuselage serial as 321 without a trace of an AG.

2.            Here is the service history of 321. I got the UK portion from an Air Britain article, I believe by Phil Butler although I cannot be certain.                                                                                                    

 

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