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All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here


Sean_M

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Claudio, Mike, thanks for your input.

So Canadian add-on, a restoration? I shall keep mum, as I know just enough about the Hurricane to be dangerous...

I think I will stick to one identification light for the time being.

Cheers

JR

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Hi Troy,

this is what confused the hell out of me. Three lights on the belly of this Hurricane...

Unfortunately I copied this photo while trawling the web, and I have no idea where I got that from...

Maybe you can shed some light?

Thanks for the picturfes you posted: most helpful!

Cheers

JR

Hi Jean

the examples with 3 lights are all flying warbirds, I suspect this maybe a requirement for current light aircraft for an airworthness certificate.

For wartime planes, I'd stick with the one light unless you can prove otherwise.

HTH

T

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Hi - I'm launching into building Sea Hurricane Mk Iic "Nicki". The references I have show it in overall white; white with sky undersurfaces; invasion stripes; dark grey stripes; no stripes. Any votes on what is correct? And, while I'm asking, what color should the wheel wells be painted?

The other JR

been discussed before, some photos and general info on the white Hurricanes in these threads. The site search does not work very well, I use google adding in 'britmodeller' to the search term.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234967709-white-sea-hurricanes-with-d-day-stripes-again/

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234963476-835-nas-sea-hurricane-nf-672-nicki-decals-question/

wheel wells are most likely aluminium paint.

this is the famous 'Nicki' shot

1137210149_0c4561a18b.jpg

darker undersides past wing leading edge show Sky undersides, and part of a black, not dark grey, stripe visible(and discoloured white)

Note camera gun inboard of cannon, and detached oil spill ring....I've seen profiles showing this as red 'swoosh' :banghead:

HTH

T

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Hi Jean

the examples with 3 lights are all flying warbirds, I suspect this maybe a requirement for current light aircraft for an airworthness certificate.

For wartime planes, I'd stick with the one light unless you can prove otherwise.

HTH

T

Hi Troy,

Ta very much for your help!

Cheers

JR

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This photo from Wikipedia designaged as a restoration of R4118 (?)

Other photos of R4118 show a single light.

Is that really R4118, though? It has the UP-W squadron codes but I can't recall ever seeing R4118 post-restoration without under-wing roundels, and always seen it with the correct black spinner.

Also, even though R4118 is immaculately kept, that looks too clean underneath. And the junction of the tailplane root wit the fuselage looks, dare I say it, model-like, and the demarcation line between the Sky and the camo doesn't look like the way R4118 has it.

If it *is* an artfully powered model shot, it's a very good model though, and a very artfully posed shot.

Hi Jean

the examples with 3 lights are all flying warbirds, I suspect this maybe a requirement for current light aircraft for an airworthness certificate.

HTH

T

No, it isn't. In fact no lights are required at all for daytime VFR, which is all that the Permit To Fly for any UK-registered single-engined piston fighter allows

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I think that the Revell Mk.IIB is in the Day Fighter Scheme, at least mine was. The fighter-bomber did not appear in the UK until after the arrival of the DFS. However, if you want a Mk.IIc in Temperate Land, then several of the SEAC squadrons used them in the fighter-bomber role, as with the Airfix kit.

I'm pretty sure that none of the Mk.IIc fighter-bombers was used in the UK, and probably not in the Desert either although I'm open for correction there. Maybe after Torch?

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Aren't these lights to do with aircraft recognition / downward identification / "colour of the day" upgrades? Guess later marks more likely to have them as introduced in mid to late 1940? Spits had them as well?

PS - this is guessing!

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I'm going to build a Hurricane I as John Frost's mount of 3 Squadron SAAF, from the spring of 1941. What would the underside colour be? The profile in the Osprey Aircraft of the Aces shows Sky, but the profile which came with the aftermarket decals show either Sky Blue or light Azure.

Edited by atvd1020
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We are talking here about the campaign in East Africa? I would have expected it to have been delivered in Sky, or even Sky/Night, depending upon delivery date. It has been said that overseas Hurricanes were delivered in Sky Blue, but there does not appear to be any direct evidence of this, whereas there is some to the contrary. The Middle East had objected to Sky because it was too light: Sky Blue was lighter still and the new colour Azure Blue was prepared in later 1940. This was more intense than Sky Blue and different to the prewar BS colour Azure (not used by the RAF, AFAIK), but will not have become normal until early 1941 (if then).

However, around this time there was a light blue colour in use called "Iraqi Sky", concocted in the Middle East and a rather more intense blue than the pale Sky Blue. The Hartebeest in the SAAF Museum is in 1941 colours with just such a bright blue underside. That it is exactly the right hue is doubtful, but is unlikely to be far away. It is however more likely than the true Azure Blue or any alternative light blue, in my opinion.

Your problem, perhaps, is in judging when this individual aircraft arrived with the squadron. The serial could be your best guide, and perhaps the wear and tear on the aircraft in photos. If it had been with them for some time, then Sky seems the likeliest. If it was a recent arrival from the Union, then it could have been repainted in the Iraqi Blue, or a SAAF equivalent.

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if you were planning on doing it tonight, I'd hang fire. There's at least one SAAF specialist who regularly visits this board, so give him/them time to see and respond.

Don't worry, I haven't started yet. I will wait a little more to see if I get a reply from them.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Jean

the examples with 3 lights are all flying warbirds, I suspect this maybe a requirement for current light aircraft for an airworthness certificate.

For wartime planes, I'd stick with the one light unless you can prove otherwise.

HTH

T

Hi Troy

I was about to ask this question regarding the new Fly Hurricanes (which have three lamps). My research (such as it is) found the majority of flying Hurris with three lamps. My conclusion was that this is because most/all flying Mk II a/c are derived from Canadian built a/c (this may be wrong?). But as said above, late Mosquitoes, P-51s etc had this three lamp system. I was wondering if there was any specific date that this came in?

I've only found a single underside image of a Mk IIc and it has a single lamp in the central location.. Have to say i prefer the look of a single lamp.

EDIT: A little Googling indicates that these were indeed a form of IFF (pre-electronic). The lights could be set to steady or keyed which could display codes (apparently). What little I found pointed to this being a US feature, so maybe the Hurris and Mossies we see are Canadian built (they may have had the same ID system as their neighbours?).

Matt

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  • 1 month later...

Not so much a question, but more an answer.

There is a well known picture of Mk.I V7670 which had been captured by the Germans in the Western Desert

http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159333&stc=1&d=1198109675

Frustratingly it is inconclusive as to whether it was equipped with a Vokes filter or not.

Here is the other side

http://arsenal-info.ru/img/2700979183/pic_94.jpg

However, whilst idly pottering around the internet I found this

http://yoyosims.pl/Obrazki/Hurri%20v7670.jpg

which seems to settle the conundrum.

I hope this is useful.

Trevor

EDIT why no Swastika?

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Would anyone have nice close up photos of the 4 rocket installation on the Hurricane? I've seen drawings but never a close up photo.

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Steve,

Just sent you a few photos from one of the trials that were run.

Note that one shows damage done to the starboard wing blast plate.

I've plenty more photos & documents on these so will dig out some more stuff for you.

Cheers

Dave

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  • 3 weeks later...

As most (if not all) short-nosed Sea Hurricanes wore Temperate Sea Scheme over (low demarcation line) Sky Type S, I'd like to find a photo of such machine (MTO would be most welcome) featuring any odd form of camo, i.e Tropical SS colours, RAF Desert scheme, some bluish (Azure, Light med) or Sky Grey undersurfaces, a black port wing underside, a high demarcation line or anything like that. She needn't to be RN CV-based (CAM and MAC-ships as well as ground bases are OK too), but a tailhook is necessary.

Could anybody help me, please?

Cheers

Michael

Edited by KRK4m
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There is a photo of one in TSS with high demarcation. It is usually represented as Sky Grey but I have seen Sky suggested as more likely in the timescale. However I think the more interesting FAA Hurricanes in Desert Scheme (with or without "spaghetti") lack hooks.

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I have several photos with high demarcation, by they're hook-less trainers based in the UK. Does the one you mention belong to this category?

But FAA in Desert Scheme sounds very interesting! Do you mean Sea Hurricanes? OK - could be with no hook :))

Cheers

Michael

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I'll have to check, but think the high demarcation belonged on an 880 Sq Sea Hurricane, though it probably was used as a trainer in the UK. Possibly in the early mission to Norway? They do not seem to have taken any high demarcation aircraft on board HMS Indomitable for their cruise.

The Desert scheme are all Hurricanes, I'm afraid.

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No (Sea) Hurricanes to the Royal Navy before 1941, so no Norwegian machines for the FAA. Earliest naval ones delivered new (no hook) were a batch of Gloster-built machines, which must have been finished in high-demarcation S.1E/TSS around the end of 1940.

Desert FAA Hurricanes were with 803 and 806 Sqns around mid-1941, after these two units lost most of their Fulmars in operations throughout the Med (and their parent carriers were hit by Axis dive-bombers). So, they were definitely ground-based.

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