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Sean_M

All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

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I read somewhere that even numbered serials have the 'A' scheme and odd numbers have the 'B' scheme. Is this true?

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Quick question. I am about to try and get back into finishing (and modelling...) my new tool Airfix Hurri. Its planned to be finished as Les McKnights aircraft LE-A and Troy has supplied the decals from the Italeri kit. Can someone confirm whether this Hurricane of 242 squadron wore the A or B scheme camo please? I have done the black underside to port wing and everything else in earth and sky so just the green needs applying. Maybe one of our more knowledgeable Canadian members can help??

Hi Paul

Italeri show an A scheme. The two photos here

http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Hurricane/RAF-242Sqn-LE/pages/Hawker-Hurricane-MkI-RAF-242Sqn-LEA-William-McKnight-P2961-England-1940-01.html

http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Hurricane/RAF-242Sqn-LE/pages/Hawker-Hurricane-MkI-RAF-242Sqn-LEA-William-McKnight-P2961-England-1940-02.html

are not very clear, but looks more like a A to me.

edit - larger, clearer shot

mcknight_hurricane_zps355c8b3f.jpg

I read somewhere that even numbered serials have the 'A' scheme and odd numbers have the 'B' scheme. Is this true?

In theory maybe, but in reality, no.

the alternating schemes were dropped by 1941.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234978725-a-and-b-scheme-hurricane-and-spitfires-urgent/

there is another thread on this somewhere.

Work from a photo if possible.

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Cheers Troy. I thought you would come up trumps! I just did a quick trawl on google and found most pics show models of the subject and all show A scheme. (Seems a very popular subject actually...). I'll settle with that.

Cheers but any more detail will be appreciated.

Oh... just a bit of technical info needed, would it have had the Rotol bulbous type prop and spinner??

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Paul,

Here's a copy of the info that I sent to Sean a while ago in regard to Willy McKnight's Hurricane. Hope that you find it of use.

Finished in the 'A' camouflage pattern McKnights' skeleton and
sickle emblem, applied by McKnight himself, was not applied to the aircraft until late November/early December
1940. (perhaps at the same time as the underside of the port wing was repainted along with the Sky spinner and tail band).
In a telephone conversation subsequent to the 1975 letter between Bader and Clarence Simonsen, Bader also stated that both his
and McKnights' Hurricanes had the boot emblem applied to each side of the nose and that while some other aircraft in the squadron
had the emblem applied to the port side of the nose, others did not carry it at all.
There is of course a caveat regarding Baders comments in that these were made some thirty-five years after the event and that he could have been
mistaken - well, they do say that if you want to find out about the markings of a particular pilots aircraft, the last person you should ask is the pilot himself!!

Aside from the two frequently published photos of McKnights' Hurricane, three others exist in a private collection here in Canada; a distance
three quarter view from behind, one of it alongside another showing most of the port side and a three quarter head on view with McKnight and and
unidentified pilot standing in front of the port wing. A starboard view of the entire aircraft has yet to come to light (if such a view does exist).

HTH

Dave

Edited by tango98

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Thanks Dave(Tango98).

Much appreciated.

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Edit - And the early Canadian built Mk I's as well, though in RAF service they got L**** serials.

I'm a little confused by this statement. The Canadian built prototype was P5170. Oddly, it appears it has the five spoked wheels.

Jim

Hi Jim

I read that the Canadian built planes were reserialled in the UK here

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?54200-RCAF-Hurricanes-in-the-Battle-of-Britain

re-reading this carefully now, I see I misread, as I was not paying attention, and I thought that the 20 Hurricanes shipped to Canada, and reserialed there were the first Canadian built planes.

DOH! :banghead:

I know 323 came back (crashed Nov 40 IIRC). The first batch of 40 from CCF were P5170 to P5209 shipped over feb to Aug 40.

L1759 (ex 310), L1760 (311), L1761 (312), L1762 (313), L1763 (314), L1878 (315), L1879 (316), L1880 (317), L1881 (318), L1882 (319), L1883 (320), L1884 (321 - later became slip wing hurri), L1885 (322), L1886 (323), L1887 (324), L1888 (325), L1890 (326), L2021 (327), L2022 (328), L2023 (329), L2144 (330 - lost at sea in transit), L1848 was despatched as a pattern aircraft 2/3/39 and L2144 despatched 28/9/39 as sample for Canadian production.
info from Mason's excellent Hawker Aircraft since 1920 Putnam!

I now see the blinkin' obvious!

thanks for picking up on this.

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Cheers for all the help chaps. I have all but completed the build now. Just need to paint and fit the canopy frames and windshiled. Will do pics sometime in the week when the will to do so returns.

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Quick question, I am currently building the Airfix 1/24 Hurricane, havent built a plane in years, looking at references of the instrument panel I have seen various bezels painted in different colours, is there any reason for this, to be honest I think I have bitten off a little more than I can chew! Any help will be apreciated.

Stuart

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Quick question from me too please. What mark is the Zvezda 1/144 Hurricane meant to represent? In my boxing (a poly bag which came free with a magazine) it's silent.

Trevor

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Hi folks,one for Troy perhap's just putting the finishing touches to a new tool Airfix Hurricane and using the decal's for P/O

Stevens YB-J Sky decals sheet,the letter's are really off white rather than the Grey of the Airfix kit;s sheet,now I can live with it

althought disappointed now looking at a photo of the actual machine and comparing the shades of the b&w photo they do seem light,any thoughts ?I know they have had some stick about their accuracy.

Edited by stevej60

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Hi Steve

My 1/48th Sky Models sheet have rather pale grey codes, one of the problems with the sheet, better than their take on Sky though!

No idea how much Med Sea Grey varied in the real world.

This is pre war, but a very example of early colour photo of a Hurricane with MSG codes

Hurricane_L1940.jpg

HTH

T

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I attempted to use some of the code letters from the Sky Hurricane sheet on my Defiant build. Once off the backing sheet and on the model they were almost white. This may have been due to the Night background increasing the contract to the eye, but they certainly seemed lighter off the sheet than on it, and noticeably lighter than those on my Xtradecal sheet of codes and several in my decal stash. Might be my laptop or the fact there seemed to be a lot of chlorine in the local pool today but those codes in Troys photo almost look Sky!

@Stevej60 - have you put the codes on your Hurricane yet?

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Thank,s Troy (beautiful photograph BTW) as i say i can live with it, Neil yes the decal's are on beautiful to apply just a little light.

SDC13905%20640x480_zpsfitbjy5a.jpg

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Hi Steve

My 1/48th Sky Models sheet have rather pale grey codes, one of the problems with the sheet, better than their take on Sky though!

No idea how much Med Sea Grey varied in the real world.

This is pre war, but a very example of early colour photo of a Hurricane with MSG codes

HTH

T

Early 1939/40 instructions for code letters simply state 'grey paint' but there is an October 1936 memo from Air Ministry to RAE stating that following their preliminary tests it was proposed to standardise the grey colour for identification markings as 'Sea Grey, Medium'. RAE were asked to provide 100 on metal and 100 on fabric samples of the paint colour. I have not seen any of those.

The reason the grey codes in the colour photo appear like Sky probably has much to do with the yellow green diagonal striations running across the image.

Nick

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Sea Grey Medium was ordered, by the D.T.D., 7-10-1936, for "markings, for identification purposes on camouflaged aeroplanes," and Farnborough were requested to produce 100 metal, and 100 fabric samples, coated with the paint, presumably for supply to paint manufacturers.

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This should be a quick one for some of you - I'm ashamed to say it's something I should know... ...but I've forgotten.

What size in 1:1 scale were the yellow tips on Hurricane propellers? Something at the back of my pea sized brain says 4" but I wanted to be sure.

Wez

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4 inches

John.

Thanks John - I am an ant brain! :banghead:

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Good evening, I am currently making Hurricanes in the BoB GB, one of which shall be wearing the top markings

given on the Xtradecal sheet below......N2522 US-P.

I'd like to find out if it took part during the specific dates of the G.B, as the sheet just gives "circa June 1940".

DSCF4343_zpsr25z7usm.jpg

I've spent the past couple of days scouring the web, and have yet to find anything regarding this airframe.

Perhaps someone here might know?

TIA,

Sean.

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Good evening, I am currently making Hurricanes in the BoB GB, one of which shall be wearing the top markings

given on the Xtradecal sheet below......N2522 US-P.

I'd like to find out if it took part during the specific dates of the G.B, as the sheet just gives "circa June 1940".

DSCF4343_zpsr25z7usm.jpg

I've spent the past couple of days scouring the web, and have yet to find anything regarding this airframe.

Perhaps someone here might know?

TIA,

Sean.

Hi Sean

EDIT - note, despite the comments on poor profiles and details, the actual decals I believe are correct as far as far as size,shape and colour, so are quite usable. Shame about the instructions.

I suggest it's another poor bit of profiling from Xtradecal, and the serial is wrong.

Hurricane-RAF-56Sqn-USP-with-USE-and-USC serial looks to end '64'

Now, there might be another shot of US-P that is N2522, but it's not springing to mind. Possibly from the famous bit of newsreel of 56 sq taking off, links for this here

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234964923-looking-for-info-on-56-squadron-hurricanes/

But if not, well, I'd say this was May 1940, after the yellow ring and fin stripes, before the Sky undersides. So black/w.

hite split undersides, maybe aluminium under nose and rear fuselage

Note, underwing roundel, used by planes operating over France, removed when Sky introduced, re introduced in August.

There are posts here on these variations.

This could even be fabric winged,hard to tell, position on landing light is further in on fabric wing.

It's quite an early plane, note lack of rectangular access panel under the 'P' and curved base to windscreen. Xtradecal show a standard aerial, most likely the pole type.

This was discussed elsewhere, can't remember where, but note it appears to have previous squadron codes painted out with fresh paint, which are the darker patches behind the US - P areas.

So, if I'm correct, no, as is, is not BoB era, just before, probably late May 1940.

Regarding the Xtradecal instructions, and profiles, please read this thread about VY-R and 'Sky Grey'

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234948380-hurricane-colour-question/

Note several obvious differences from decal instructions to photos posted.

if the Sky/Sky Grey bit is puzzling...

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234985915-raf-sky-grey/

HTH

T

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Thanks MilneBay, some very interesting links.

Hi Troy, thanks very much, this has been very useful indeed. I had come across this photo earlier

(on the 56 Sq Association site), and it is given as France.

It was seeing the serial number I decided to post here.

My initial thought was the above aircraft had been lost and the codes given to N2522 at a later date, i.e circa June 1940?

Probably not. I shall just use the codes, no serials.

The only serial with (64) , that I could find so far, is a Hurricane I,

LI764, which crash landed on Chesil Beach while being flown by P/O M.H.C.Maxwell, after being bounced by

ME-109's at 17.00 hrs, 30th Sept 1940

http://www.the-battle-of-britain.co.uk/pilots/Ma-pilots.html#MantonGAL

As regards VY-R, these are the markings and codes that come with the Revell kit, although slightly thicker

codes. The camo pictures are very interesting, because that's how my wing demarcations used to turn out, now I'm

a lot tidier, it's not quite right, go figure.

So much for just paint and glue!

Thanks again, I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

Sean

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I've found the 'old faithful' Airfix 1/48 Hurricane in the back of my loft that I'm planning to build with the supplied 85 Squadron markings from Lille-Seclin before hostilities broke out in France.

Recently noticed that the increase in colours on the spinners, as depicted on Airfix's new tool 1/72 kit of VY-C/G as a ragwing with a three-blade prop. So with this in mind my questions are:

1. Should I go with the black spinner or a specific colour applied by 85 Squadron?

2. Is the kit actually wrong for 85 Sqn in April 1940 by having tin wings?

Thanks a mill for any guidance!

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