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Sean_M

All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

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3 hours ago, mack said:

Hello fellow forum members,

 

I intend to convert a Fly 1/32 Hawker Hurricane Mk Ia kit into an earlier model with fabric covered wings.

The "technical definition" I'm targeting could be summarized as follows:

- fabric covered wings (with all associated modifications - different gun covers, ejector ports, relocated landing lights);

- fuselage with anti-spin streak under the tail (as provided in the kit);

- deHavilland 3 blade propeller (the one from the kit or a resin replacement one - any suggestions?);

- 5 spoke wheels;

- late type windscreen with the additional framing (I would have liked an early windscreen, but wasn't able to find a suitable one - any suggestions?);

- reflex type gun sight (not the early "ring and bead type). 

 

As my knowledge on the topic is limited, my first question is if the definition above would mach an existing airframe. If answer is positive, what would be the right color scheme/ registration (I'm targeting a RAF machine).

 

Thank you for your support and suggestions.

 

Regards,   

Search out the PCM fabric wing kit, it has some issues of it own,  but does have  the fabric wing.

 

Your description is of a late fabric wing plane as it is.

Converting a metal to fabric is doable, but a lot of work to look good.

Here's a walkround of the oldest surviving Hurricane, L1592

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_mk1_l1592/

 

The underside wing shots SH the fabric really well.

The Romanian airforce had 3 ex Yugoslav fabric wing Hurricanes BTW, numbered 13,14,15.

 

HTH

T

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7 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

...

The Romanian airforce had 3 ex Yugoslav fabric wing Hurricanes BTW, numbered 13,14,15.

 

HTH

T

A Zmaj built Hurricane in Romanian colors was my initial intention. Failing to crash mold/ vacuum form the early windscreen and unable to locate a suitable aftermarket part made me change to a RAF "late fabric wing".

 

I had a look at the versions proposed by the PCM kit but none of the RAF machines matches my definition (either early canopy or watts 2 blade propeller). Right?

Did the late canopy coexisted with the 2 blade Watts (and fabric wings, of course) in RAF colors. If yes, that's a machine I would like to represent.

      

Regards,  

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@Procopius is asking about the Fly 1/32 Hurricane.

 

Googling for 312 Sqn Hurricanes I came across this picture......

 

https://goo.gl/images/6HhCkB

 

Note the non standard size tail flash and serial presentation.

 

Trevor

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Had a look on Google for this one but no immediate joy.

 

Can another body supply a diagram showing the 'Transport Section' for the Hurricane aircraft ???

 

many thanks

Ian

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32 minutes ago, Mancunian airman said:

Can another body supply a diagram showing the 'Transport Section' for the Hurricane aircraft ???

do you mean how a Hurricane is broken down for transport?  

 

Quote

The fuselage of a Hawker Hurricane is pulled from its packing crate for assembly at Takoradi, Gold Coast, after being shipped from the United Kingdom. The wings, tailplanes and propeller can be seen stowed in the side sections of the crate. 

large_000000.jpg

 ROYAL AIR FORCE: WEST AFRICA COMMAND, 1941-1945.. © IWM (CM 3021) IWM Non Commercial License

 

or something else?

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Yes,  transport sections  . . .

 

I have seen that photo before so 'Thank you' for that but as I am looking at that photo it doesn't show how much wing root there is ?

 

 

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Posted (edited)

There's the part that the outer wing panels bolt onto!  That's not a sarcastic answer.  Edit with further thinking:  The strips that cover the joint are pretty obvious on models and sometimes photos.  The center wing section is (I'm just remembering) built integrally with the fuselage, or perhaps better to say fuselage built integrally with the center section.  I do have the "Hurricane Manual", which may have a rough drawing of the major assembly breakdown.  I'll have a look...

Edited by gingerbob

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For transport the Hurricane wings came off at the joint just outboard of the wheel struts.

For wreck recovery the wings could be taken off [crudely] right at the wing-root fillet

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39 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

The strips that cover the joint are pretty obvious on models and sometimes photos. 

I shall have a look for that/them

32 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

For transport the Hurricane wings came off at the joint just outboard of the wheel struts.

I shall have to look underneath to see if its plane-ly obvious . . .

 

thanks for your inputs chaps

Ian

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Here's a helpful image: (click to see- I wouldn't be surprised to find it in this thread, too, but I'm not looking for it in 45 pages!)

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I thought the same about the 45 pages . . . . .

 

Thanks for the photo link. I think that clears that up.

I shall look at the Airfix kit to locate the said division in the structure.

 

thanks everybody

Ian

Edited by Mancunian airman

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2 hours ago, Mancunian airman said:

I thought the same about the 45 pages . . . . .

 

Thanks for the photo link. I think that clears that up.

I shall look at the Airfix kit to locate the said division in the structure.

 

thanks everybody

Ian

It should be obvious,but this restoration shot has the fairings removed

APmonthlyoct2009007.png

 

Here's P2617 at Hendon being moved

 

10657.jpg

I presume you are asking to model this? Note that there are no bulkheads, and you can see the bottom of the cockpit structure from the wing stubs.

As an aside, this open structure was the cause of "Hurricane burns" as the fuel tank is the pale area visible in the stub, the fire if this were ignited blowing into the bottom of the cockpit, which I only found from a book on Mc Indoe's "guinea pigs"  having thought it was from the gravity tank behind the instrument panel.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Thats ace Troy, a bonus view into the wing stub which would have been my next question .

 

Many thanks again.

 

Just got to scratch build the trailer to carry it now  . . . . happy days

Ian

Edited by Mancunian airman

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1 hour ago, Mancunian airman said:

Thats ace Troy, a bonus view into the wing stub which would have been my next question .

 

Many thanks again.

 

Just got to scratch build the trailer to carry it now  . . . . happy days

Ian

 

 

Hi Ian

There are famous photos of Hurricane's on trailers in the desert, though this shows the packing very well

p3154.jpg&key=59439e289ab71b8c52a4e57b17

There is this as well

 

Hawker-Hurricane-MkIIb-RAF-73Sqn-R-BD930

 

I took some photos of P2617 with the wings off,  including one with flash into the stub, let me know if you want me to dig them out?

You may find clearer details in restoration shots with the skinning off,  the basic structure details are the same for all variants BTW.

 

HTH

T

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Posted (edited)

You just beat me to it Troy but this is what I have in mind . . .

 

43426415372_b24c2964e8_z.jpg

 

Edited by Mancunian airman
Added the plan

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Mmm...

Concerning Airfix old 1/24 scale Hurricane it had a red spinner. But today most spinner's are black orange sky. How common was it with an red spinner? Or was Airfix wrong?

 

Cheers / André

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Black was the early war standard, superseded by Sky (initially often Sky  Blue).  Red was ordered for the Desert Air Force.  Orange would be very rare, except perhaps for some SAAF?  In SEAC many were white but each Spitfire Mk. VIII unit was allocated it's own colour.

 

Other colours were rare, but of them red was popular.  As for the Airfix kit, there has been considerable discussion about 87 Sq being red or blue but I don't remember details. 

 

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2 hours ago, Andre B said:

Mmm...

Concerning Airfix old 1/24 scale Hurricane it had a red spinner. But today most spinner's are black orange sky. How common was it with an red spinner? Or was Airfix wrong?

 

Cheers / André

The subject of the Airfix kit, Ian Gleed , LK-A, had a red spinner, as well little flashes behind, there are several photos of Gleed's plane, from different times and angles.

 

A few units early in the BoB had coloured spinners,  both 85 and 87 sqds apparently using flight colours, 17 sq used Sky, possibly a misunderstanding of the Sky underside order,  and 601 used spinners in red, white and blue.

All of these have been discussed here,  say if you can't find the threads, and I'll search them up.

Note mention of spinners here

Hawker%20Hurricane%20Camo%20&%20Marks_Pa

From

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Camoflage-Markings/03-Hawker-Hurricane

 

HTH

 

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I’ve been continuing to try to determine the differences on a MkIV, and have found some additional documentation that seems to confirm:

- the MkIV radiator with armour removed is the same dimension as the MkII. The armour was likely bolted on as needed?

- the side panel of the windscreen was armoured.

- external armour was fitted on the side of the cockpit at the front in the area of the instrument panel.

 

The Hurricane seems to reveals it’s secrets very slowly!

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I find it difficult to think of a time when a ground attack aircraft would have armour removed.  It does perhaps raise the question of how the bolts were attached - presumably a new production tool was required for Mk.IV radiator cowls.  In which case  was the original tooling still used for Mk.IIs or would Mk.IIs theoretically have the armour fitted?  I suspect not or we'd have seen it mentioned or on photos.

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I am on the hunt for a couple of specific Hurricanes.  As some of you may know I am building up a collection of fighters flown by FAA Aces and one stream of my current project is S/Lt DM Jeram.

 

Dennis Mayvore Jeram was seconded to 213 Squadron RAF and was flying Hawker Hurricanes during the Battle of Britain during which he destroyed four German aircraft and probably destroyed one other.  I have been able to find the dates of his victories and have had a look at the ORB for those dates which gives me some of the information but not all.  Unfortunately 213 ORB only gives the aircraft ID letter (unlike 19 Squadron who only give the serial number) and I was hoping someone might be able to help me identify the serial niumbers of the aircraft or tell how I can identify them.

 

The dates and aircraft in question:-

11.08.40 Ju88 Destroyed, Ju88 Probably destroyed - ORB says that SLt Jeram was flying U (AK*U)

12.08.40 Me110 Destroyed - ORB says that SLt Jeram was flying U (AK*U) in the morning and Q (AK*Q) in the afternoon (not sure if the EA was destroyed in the morning or afternoon)

15.08.40 Me110 Destroyed - ORB says that SLt Jeram was flying W (AK*W)

15.09.40 Do17 Destroyed - ORB says that SLt Jeram was flying U (AK*U)

 

Hurricane U flown 11.08 & 12.08 maybe a different Hurricane to that flown on 15.09.

 

Can anyone help me with serial numbers - Ideally I would like a clear colour photograph of each side of each aircraft showing all markings, serial, weathering etc. (unlikely) but in lieu of which I would settle for a serial number..

 

Thanks in advance..

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Fighters Squadrons of the RAF gives Z4095/W and Z4089/U..  No idea about dates of use, other than a feeling that Z serials may be a little later.

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6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Fighters Squadrons of the RAF gives Z4095/W and Z4089/U..  No idea about dates of use, other than a feeling that Z serials may be a little later.

Thanks Graham,

 

I'll just have to hope someone turns up that photograph them....

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