All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

[EwenS]

7 minutes ago, Gomtuu said:

The drawing I have states a dimension between the pin centres of 109.5 inches 

Thanks. It confirms Melonfish’s figure.

[StevSmar]

I made up this comparison on Radiator Inlet shapes and it suggested that there is definitely a difference between the Tropical versions of the Hurricane and the "Temperate" versions.
I've been working on a cross reference of the Hurricanes Schedule of Spare Parts and Side Elevation Drawings and it has different references for the Tropical and "Temperate" radiators:

Does this strongly suggest there is a tropical version of the radiator for the Hurricane?

[gingerbob]

On 1/5/2021 at 3:18 PM, EwenS said:

Can anyone tell me the width of a Hurricane sitting on its undercarriage without its outer wing panels? In other words as it would be put into the packing case for overseas transport or put into a carrier hanger.

Per "the Hurricane II Manual":

 

For transport purposes, Hurricane II aeroplanes are packed in cases measuring internally 29 ft 6 in long x 9 ft 6 in wide x 8 ft 3 in high, each case containing one complete aeroplane with engine installed; the aeroplane is divided into the following units before being packed:

1. Airscrew
2. Port outer plane
3. Starboard outer plane
4. Rudder
5. Fin
6. Tail plane and elevator
7. Engine, fuselage, and centre section

 

 

[72modeler]

12 hours ago, StevSmar said:

Does this strongly suggest there is a tropical version of the radiator for the Hurricane?

I'm no Troy Smith, but IIRC, KX829 was a Mk IV, which did have a larger radiator matrix; since most Mk IV's served in the PTO/CBI, I'm guessing the larger capacity radiator was useful for hot/tropical climates. I'm guessing the Mk II radiator was larger than the Mk II due to the increased cooling needed for the  more powerful Merlin? Just guessing- I would think @Troy Smith would be the man who would know. BTW- just got the revised Arma Mk II kit with the bombs, pylons, external tanks, etc- what a beaut! At last- a proper Hurribomber!

Mike

[Troy Smith]

3 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

but IIRC, KX829 was a Mk IV, which did have a larger radiator matrix; since most Mk IV's served in the PTO/CBI, I'm guessing the larger capacity radiator was useful for hot/tropical climates. I'm guessing the Mk II radiator was larger than the Mk II due to the increased cooling needed for the  more powerful Merlin?

Hi Mike, started a separate thread 

At the moment, from photos I must stress,  there looks to be British Mk.II  rad inlet, and a Canadian Mk.XII inlet.   I'm trying to find a photo of a confirmed British Mk.II with more oval intake.   

[EwenS]

23 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Per "the Hurricane II Manual":

 

For transport purposes, Hurricane II aeroplanes are packed in cases measuring internally 29 ft 6 in long x 9 ft 6 in wide x 8 ft 3 in high, each case containing one complete aeroplane with engine installed; the aeroplane is divided into the following units before being packed:

1. Airscrew
2. Port outer plane
3. Starboard outer plane
4. Rudder
5. Fin
6. Tail plane and elevator
7. Engine, fuselage, and centre section

 

 

 

From the IWM - unboxing them at Takoradi

 

 

 

Tailplane span is 11'. So it needs removed to fit the box.

Edited January 10, 2021 by EwenS

[V Line]

See the following for crating a Hurricane and loading a crate on transport:

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205451346

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205451348

 

I think slightly different to the Takoradi shots.

[EwenS]

42 minutes ago, V Line said:

See the following for crating a Hurricane and loading a crate on transport:

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205451346

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205451348

 

I think slightly different to the Takoradi shots.

 

Very different packing. Fuselage in one case and the outer wings in a second case on the right hand side of the photo.

[wombat]

This seems the right place to ask: the old Airfix mk1/2b kit obviously bakes in an inaccuracy because the mk2 had a longer nose for the updated engine. I have a figure of 4mm in my head from somewhere. But is is too long for a mk1, too short for a mk2b, or somewhere in between?

[Graham Boak]

4 inches on the real thing, about 1.5mm in 1/72.  I can't comment on the kit, other than that the best thing about it was the 40mm guns.

[Troy Smith]

46 minutes ago, wombat said:

This seems the right place to ask: the old Airfix mk1/2b kit obviously bakes in an inaccuracy because the mk2 had a longer nose for the updated engine. I have a figure of 4mm in my head from somewhere. But is is too long for a mk1, too short for a mk2b, or somewhere in between?

Mk.I/IIb  Arabic numerals are post war.

 

AFAIK, the 1973 Airfix kit you ask about is basically a Mk.I  

 

the Mk.II in real life is 4 inches longer,  1/72nd is 6 feet to the inch, so in 1/72ns that is 1/18th of an inch, 

 

1 inch = 25.4mm

 

25.4mm/18 = 1.41 mm

 

 

if you want to check, 

 

this shows adding the length in 1/48th

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235077619-airfix-hurricane-iia-in-148th-gaffa-tape-here-we-come

 

Note the the Mk.II also has a deeper radiator, and wider carb intake with a rear faring, which makes the rear seem further back.

 

My old Airfix that is too hand has been chopped a long time ago, and can't get to another to check that. 

 

From memory, most of the shapes are OK, the upper nose is too narrow, it's covered in battleship rivets, and apparently the canopy is too shallow.  The bullet rotol look too long.

The 40mm guns and drop tanks maybe handy.   

 

I suspect Airfix took "inspiration" from the 1/48th Monogram kit, as both have the same stores options.

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

[Bigos]

I have a little sensation. In this interview Storey says: 

http://australiansatwarfilmarchive.unsw.edu.au/archive/1279-william-storey 

 

Did your squadron ever have a mascot?

 

No. It was distinctive in that for morale purpose and squadron purposes my flight we had plum coloured spinners. 

 

This is the only photo I know of of his plane AP894/C. 
Perhaps it is the one with the plum spinner?

Are there any other photos of Storey's aircraft?

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Bigos

[FinnAndersen]

3 hours ago, Bigos said:

I have a little sensation. In this interview Storey says: 

http://australiansatwarfilmarchive.unsw.edu.au/archive/1279-william-storey 

 

Did your squadron ever have a mascot?

 

No. It was distinctive in that for morale purpose and squadron purposes my flight we had plum coloured spinners. 

 

This is the only photo I know of of his plane. 
Perhaps it is the one with the plum spinner?

Are there any other photos of Storey's aircraft?

There's a better photo of BN163 in the old Kookaburra "Hawker Hurricane - described" book by Francis K. Mason. It's a black and white photo and the spinner is dark.

 

BTW: On the back of said publication is a profile of Z5659, another of his mounts.

 

/Finn

[Mark Postlethwaite]

'Jack' Storey was a remarkable globetrotter, even in later life. Several years ago he toured Europe and stayed with us in Poland for a few days.  I asked him about the spinners and he confirmed that Z5659, which I had painted for the cover of Osprey's Hurricane Aces 1941-45 book, also had the plum coloured spinner.

[Magpie22]

I’ve come upon this thread a bit late as I have been ‘hors de combat’ for a week or two.

William John Storey, preferred name Jack, a school teacher when war came, enlisted in the RAAF in September 1940, at the age of 24. He did his basic training in Australia and his advanced training in Canada, being commissioned as a Pilot Officer. He arrived in the UK at the end of July 1941 and, after converting to Hurricanes with No. 59 OTU, he was posted to No. 135 Squadron RAF in September 1941.

 

Shortly after, the squadron was deployed overseas to Mingaldon, Burma, arriving there in mid-January 1942. In the meantime, Jack had been promoted to Temporary Flying Officer. The squadron’s aircraft took some time to prepare, and the pilots initially flew aircraft from No. 17 Sqn. Jack scored his first victory, a Nakajima Ki-27 ‘Nate’, on 29 January, in BD921, a No. 17 Sqn Hurricane.

 

Shortly after, the squadron received its full complement of aircraft and, Jack adopted Z5659, a Gloster built Mk. IIB, as his and had it coded ‘C’. More success came on 6 February when he destroyed two more ‘Nates’. He followed this up with yet another ‘Nate’ on 23 Feb, flying Z5659 yet again. Four down in less than a month!

 

The squadron had been flying continuous operations throughout February and, in March it was forced to withdraw to Akyab. Here they encountered the Japanese Air Force’s top fighter, the KI-43 Hayabusa, ‘Oscar’. Jack’s airmanship and leadership had been noted and, on 2 March he was promoted to Acting Flight Lieutenant and given command of ‘A’ Flight. He had also acquired a new ‘C’, AP894, a Hurricane Mk. IIB, built by the Austin Motor Co Ltd.

 

On the morning of 5 March, he led ‘A’ Flight off on patrol and encountered three ‘Oscars’ at 20,000 ft. He led the flight into attack, claiming one ‘Oscar’ himself. After returning, the flight was ordered off again shortly after noon and encountered three more ‘Oscars’ at about 21,000 ft. Jack led Red and White sections into attack, with Yellow section remaining as top cover. He attacked one Oscar, opening fire from about 150 yards and closing in to 20 yards. The aircraft rolled over into a dive and he followed it down, seeing it impact the ground. Climbing back up, he encountered another ‘Oscar’ at about 13,000 ft and attacked, again closing in to 20 yards. The pilot of the ‘Oscar’ rolled on to his back and bailed out. This brought his tally up to seven scored in five weeks. His last victory, another ‘Oscar’ was claimed two months later on 5 May, again flying AP894.

 

Jack stayed with the squadron until mid-1943 when he joined No. 1572 Flight as a gunnery instructor. One other ‘C’ that Jack flew with No 135 Sqn was BN163, a Hurricane NF. Mk.IIB, that was with the squadron from mid-1942. Jack saw no combat in this aircraft.

 

After he was repatriated to Australia in March 1944, he was promoted to Squadron Leader and made CFI of the gunnery flight at Central Gunnery School, his appointment being terminated in September 1945. He went back to teaching, later becoming a school principal and then a senior officer in the Victorian Education Department.

 

I was privileged to interview Jack in the late 1960s and he described three of his aircraft to me. I leave it to the reader to assign the correct RAF colour names to Jack’s descriptions. None of his aircraft carried a personal emblem or victory scoreboard.

 

Z5659

Flown in February 1942.

Jack described this as finished in brown and green with a light blue-grey under surface. The spinner was black, (he said ‘A’ Flight had black spinners and ‘B’ Flight white spinner). The serial was black and the codes grey. As mentioned in an earlier post this aircraft is illustrated in colour, (incorrectly in desert camouflage, in my opinion), on the back of the Kookaburra booklet, Hawker Hurricane Described by Francis Mason. This aircraft carried the full code WKoC.

 

 

AP894

Flown from March to June 1942.

This was also described as being brown and green. He described the spinner as being maroon. This latter would seem to tie in with the description he gives on the tape as ‘plum’. It was ta this time that Storey took command of ‘A’ Flight, so could have instituted the colour change at that time. The photo clearly shows a non-standard pattern camouflage, particularly around the cockpit area. Note the Flight Lieutenant stripes on Jack's shoulders.

 

 

BN163

Flown from July 1942 to 1943.

Also described as being brown and green, spinner black. It had a maroon tip on the fin. Jack flew a number of night patrols in this aircraft.

 

 

[Bigos]

 

 

[Tony C]

On 06/04/2021 at 16:20, Bigos said:

I would say that what you are seeing, is the leading edge of the armoured plate glass, with the screen framework removed, to allow the cowling covering the fuel/oil tanks, to be removed easily and quickly!

 

But that's only a guess!

 

 

[tonyot]

On 4/6/2021 at 3:20 PM, Magpie22 said:

I’ve come upon this thread a bit late as I have been ‘hors de combat’ for a week or two.

William John Storey, preferred name Jack, a school teacher when war came, enlisted in the RAAF in September 1940, at the age of 24. He did his basic training in Australia and his advanced training in Canada, being commissioned as a Pilot Officer. He arrived in the UK at the end of July 1941 and, after converting to Hurricanes with No. 59 OTU, he was posted to No. 135 Squadron RAF in September 1941.

 

Shortly after, the squadron was deployed overseas to Mingaldon, Burma, arriving there in mid-January 1942. In the meantime, Jack had been promoted to Temporary Flying Officer. The squadron’s aircraft took some time to prepare, and the pilots initially flew aircraft from No. 17 Sqn. Jack scored his first victory, a Nakajima Ki-27 ‘Nate’, on 29 January, in BD921, a No. 17 Sqn Hurricane.

 

Shortly after, the squadron received its full complement of aircraft and, Jack adopted Z5659, a Gloster built Mk. IIB, as his and had it coded ‘C’. More success came on 6 February when he destroyed two more ‘Nates’. He followed this up with yet another ‘Nate’ on 23 Feb, flying Z5659 yet again. Four down in less than a month!

 

The squadron had been flying continuous operations throughout February and, in March it was forced to withdraw to Akyab. Here they encountered the Japanese Air Force’s top fighter, the KI-43 Hayabusa, ‘Oscar’. Jack’s airmanship and leadership had been noted and, on 2 March he was promoted to Acting Flight Lieutenant and given command of ‘A’ Flight. He had also acquired a new ‘C’, AP894, a Hurricane Mk. IIB, built by the Austin Motor Co Ltd.

 

On the morning of 5 March, he led ‘A’ Flight off on patrol and encountered three ‘Oscars’ at 20,000 ft. He led the flight into attack, claiming one ‘Oscar’ himself. After returning, the flight was ordered off again shortly after noon and encountered three more ‘Oscars’ at about 21,000 ft. Jack led Red and White sections into attack, with Yellow section remaining as top cover. He attacked one Oscar, opening fire from about 150 yards and closing in to 20 yards. The aircraft rolled over into a dive and he followed it down, seeing it impact the ground. Climbing back up, he encountered another ‘Oscar’ at about 13,000 ft and attacked, again closing in to 20 yards. The pilot of the ‘Oscar’ rolled on to his back and bailed out. This brought his tally up to seven scored in five weeks. His last victory, another ‘Oscar’ was claimed two months later on 5 May, again flying AP894.

 

Jack stayed with the squadron until mid-1943 when he joined No. 1572 Flight as a gunnery instructor. One other ‘C’ that Jack flew with No 135 Sqn was BN163, a Hurricane NF. Mk.IIB, that was with the squadron from mid-1942. Jack saw no combat in this aircraft.

 

After he was repatriated to Australia in March 1944, he was promoted to Squadron Leader and made CFI of the gunnery flight at Central Gunnery School, his appointment being terminated in September 1945. He went back to teaching, later becoming a school principal and then a senior officer in the Victorian Education Department.

 

I was privileged to interview Jack in the late 1960s and he described three of his aircraft to me. I leave it to the reader to assign the correct RAF colour names to Jack’s descriptions. None of his aircraft carried a personal emblem or victory scoreboard.

 

Z5659

Flown in February 1942.

Jack described this as finished in brown and green with a light blue-grey under surface. The spinner was black, (he said ‘A’ Flight had black spinners and ‘B’ Flight white spinner). The serial was black and the codes grey. As mentioned in an earlier post this aircraft is illustrated in colour, (incorrectly in desert camouflage, in my opinion), on the back of the Kookaburra booklet, Hawker Hurricane Described by Francis Mason. This aircraft carried the full code WKoC.

 

 

AP894

Flown from March to June 1942.

This was also described as being brown and green. He described the spinner as being maroon. This latter would seem to tie in with the description he gives on the tape as ‘plum’. It was ta this time that Storey took command of ‘A’ Flight, so could have instituted the colour change at that time. The photo clearly shows a non-standard pattern camouflage, particularly around the cockpit area. Note the Flight Lieutenant stripes on Jack's shoulders.

 

 

BN163

Flown from July 1942 to 1943.

Also described as being brown and green, spinner black. It had a maroon tip on the fin. Jack flew a number of night patrols in this aircraft.

 

 

Excellent info as always Peter,.... thanks for sharing it.

[Fin]

Is there any aftermarket offering the circular type of Hurricane mirror in the 1/72 scale?

[Fin]

Does anyone know of a photo or a drawing that shows what the ring gunsight was attached to in the cockpit of the early Hurricanes? I`m having problems knowing where to put it.

[Troy Smith]

30 minutes ago, Fin said:

Does anyone know of a photo or a drawing that shows what the ring gunsight was attached to in the cockpit of the early Hurricanes? I`m having problems knowing where to put it.

@dogsbody has posted these great ones before.  

 

[dogsbody]

46 minutes ago, Fin said:

Does anyone know of a photo or a drawing that shows what the ring gunsight was attached to in the cockpit of the early Hurricanes? I`m having problems knowing where to put it.

 

I've got these:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Fin]

Thank you very much!

 

So basically it doesn`t seat on the arch behind the windscreen, but is attached, together with a head bumper to a frame connected on either side of the canopy and on the instrument panel bellow? If so, it`s annoyingly complicated for 1/72. :D

[dogsbody]

My plan, if/when I ever finish my Hurc, was to make a little crash pad out of a piece of styrene and glue it to the arch, then cement a PE ring sight on top of the arch.

 

 

 

Chris

[Dave Fleming]

On 03/05/2021 at 22:17, dogsbody said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

 

The different tones on the underside of L1555 are interesting