FZ6 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I have a question about fabric wing Hurricane L1768 as shown on Xtradecal sheet X72193 Pictures borrowed from this thread........ When comparing the photo below with the decals and illustration below it looks different. The letters look a bit skinnier on the decal sheet and I can't see a serial number painted on the side of the fuselage and the roundel is different. I'm guessing that the decal sheet represents the aircraft later in its career when the roundel was repainted to the small red and blue one. I'm thinking of making some masks to make the letters more like the photo but before I do that, I was wondering if they could have been repainted to look more like the picture above. Thanks in advance, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 7 hours ago, FZ6 said: I was wondering if they could have been repainted to look more like the picture above. Sloppy work by Xtradecal, again! I'd be very surprised if there was another photo. My brief experience with adding to decal research required me having to add lines to a photo to make the designer understand a specific point. The serials were often overpainted, and the one on the profile is the wrong style anyway, the early L**** and N**** batches having a very distinctive 6 inch type. Note said sheet has Sammy Allard's plane as fabric winged, while the only photo shows it to be metal winged. My sig line is there for a reason.... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZ6 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Thanks Troy, I think I will continue making masks for the letters so they match the photo and will ignore the serial numbers. I'll probably try and make it look like the roundel has been over painted with the red and blue one. Looking at the photo it looks like the code letters might be partially covering the area where the yellow on the roundel has been painted out. Regards, Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Troy Smith said: I'd be very surprised if there was another photo. My brief experience with adding to decal research required me having to add lines to a photo to make the designer understand a specific point. Been there, done that! 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrzeM Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 10 hours ago, Troy Smith said: My brief experience with adding to decal research required me having to add lines to a photo to make the designer understand a specific point. Same here - preparing the painting schemes and decals for ArmaHobby kits I've learned: never trust the profiles, always check the photos! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveWilko Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 A question from me(based on my observations). It seems that some Hurricanes have a step(stirrup type)under the port wing root,some don't appear to have. Was this a fixed or pull down by hand fitting?,did it retract with the undercarriage "Up" selection by the pilot? Did the manufacturers eventually delete it?(simplicity of manufacture/aerodynamic reasons) As I say,some photographs of parked aircraft show it fitted in the "down"position,some don't have it visible/not fitted at all. I do realise that there were also two spring loaded "kick-in" type handhold/steps on the port fuselage to help an individual "scale" their way up and into the cockpit(nothing like the terms of "scaling" on an F4U though). DW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 It was a retractable step that I think was operated from the lower handhold. This is from the SAM Modelers Datafile book. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 38 minutes ago, DaveWilko said: It seems that some Hurricanes have a step(stirrup type)under the port wing root,some don't appear to have. Was this a fixed or pull down by hand fitting?,did it retract with the undercarriage "Up" selection by the pilot? Did the manufacturers eventually delete it?(simplicity of manufacture/aerodynamic reasons) As I say,some photographs of parked aircraft show it fitted in the "down"position,some don't have it visible/not fitted at all. I do realise that there were also two spring loaded "kick-in" type handhold/steps on the port fuselage to help as Chris says, the top one is operated when the step is pulled down, as seen here from our great walkround of the Shuttleworth collection Sea Hurricane the loop at the bottom of the step is the handle to pull step down, note stencil about this above handhold step up, hand hold shut, handle just visible under the '7' the one in the metal panel under the cockpit is a sprung kick in panel. HTH T 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveWilko Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Thank you Chris and Troy. So as I see it,air/ground crew needing to access the cockpit would A/ Pull down the footstep, B/ thus opening the hand hold above the triangular panel. Once "aboard" the wing root,the hand hold flap would be closed thus retracting the step. Of course,our returning top button opened victorious and very excited Hurricane pilot wouldn't bother with this rigmarole once parked up at dispersal after a combat,one would imagine he'd jump down from the wing root to pat other returning "types" and to gesticulate wildly about how he'd "bagged a 109/110/111/88" or WHY,hence photographs of aircraft with the step retracted and the hand hold closed. Upon inspection of the lovely Sea Hurri photograph,one can see where the "kick in step" is located,the paint is worn away from where it's been "kicked in". Incidentally,I remember having my photograph taken beside this very Sea Hurri in one of Old Warden's hangar during a visit there possibly around 1971/2,this of course was well before it's restoration to flight and the lovely condition we see it in now. I believe it is the only genuine Sea Hurricane "in captivity". Once again many thanks chaps. DW Edited January 21, 2019 by DaveWilko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, DaveWilko said: Once "aboard" the wing root,the hand hold flap would be closed thus retracting the step. I think the step is pushed up, and that closes the handhold. 1 hour ago, DaveWilko said: Of course,our returning top button opened victorious and very excited Hurricane pilot wouldn't bother with this rigmarole once parked up at dispersal after a combat,one would imagine he'd jump down from the wing root to pat other returning "types" and to gesticulate wildly about how he'd "bagged a 109/110/111/88" or WHY,hence photographs of aircraft with the step retracted and the hand hold closed. the only time I got to climb on a Hurricane, the pilot told me to sit down and slide down off the wing... worked a treat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FZ6 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 The Hurricane I I'm currently building is going to be a night fighter so I'll be painting it night. I plan to build Hurricane P3119 using the Aviaeology decals to paint it as VY X from 85 Squadron. Aviaeology show the codes as red also it's hard to make out a serial number. The photo from the thread below posted by @Troy Smith and some other profiles makes me think that the codes could be medium sea grey, the canopy also looks to be a lighter colour and I don't know what's going on under the tail plane maybe original camouflage? Looks like I'll have to replace the exhausts with six stub ones as well. Aviaeology also advise you to use the glare shields that were fitted to the fuel tank but I can't see evidence of them in the photo below. My question is. Were the codes repainted red at some point and if not, should I go with red or grey for the codes? Thanks, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 9 hours ago, FZ6 said: makes me think that the codes could be medium sea grey, the specified colour was Sky Grey but Med Sea Grey is possible see last two pages here https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Camoflage-Markings/03-Hawker-Hurricane also see the monographs on the Defiant and Beaufighter for more on NF camo 9 hours ago, FZ6 said: the canopy also looks to be a lighter colour and I don't know what's going on under the tail plane maybe original camouflage? Canopy may well be original Dark Green, there is a panel under the tail, though as the fuselage angles in here, it maybe a trick of the light. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: there is a panel under the tail, though as the fuselage angles in here, it maybe a trick of the light. I think it is, in that strange way that very matt finishes reflect light at an angle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 The inside of the radiator housing is also lit - photographer's tricks, I feel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbird78 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Hello, I'm looking for photos of Hurricane Mk IIc JX-W Z3899 (1st squadron, Tangmere). I could only find the below image, which is a screenshot of a movie. Nothing else in my references. I'm more specifically interested in a photo of this machine engine off as I'd like to identify the propeller type. Many thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 It's a Rotol spinner. Mk.IIs and later had no other propeller type. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 38 minutes ago, Warbird78 said: I'm looking for photos of Hurricane Mk IIc JX-W Z3899 (1st squadron, Tangmere). I could only find the below image, which is a screenshot of a movie. Nothing else in my references. I'm more specifically interested in a photo of this machine engine off as I'd like to identify the propeller type. The video is up on youtube at 0.04 you can see the prop type fitted clearly, as @Graham Boak says, the Hurricane Rotol unit Hurricane 1sq Pathe 1941 w nose clover Note the clover emblem with the Ulster hand superimposed. (note the same plane as in your still, but same prop) for more on Hurricane props and spinners https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980181-hawker-hurricane-propellers-and-spinners-a-modellers-guide/& AFAIK, the best guide on the subject available anywhere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbird78 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Thanks for your answers. Actually, I've identified I think 3-4 different propellers that goes with this spinner and I wanted to be sure which one is on JXW. But Indeed the odds that the propeller is the same as on Z3897 are high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) I know that there were a number of different propellers applied, going on the Rotol Type list as in Mason's books, but I haven't been able to identify them individually. It does seem likely that a broader blade would go with the later engines, perhaps on the Mk.IV with its more powerful engine, although perhaps seen here on a Mk.IIc. The pointier tip with the straighter leading edge (rather than a more circular look) appears very similar to that on the Spitfire Mk.IX, which may also point to a date later than the first of the Rotol props, but this is countered by its appearance on the 1 Sq example. However in view of the difficulties in identifying what may be the same prop but seen from different pitch angles, I'd hate to have to choose between them for most examples. For example, are there three or only two different examples in your photos? PS I think it would be a good idea to go through Mason's list (in the original Macdonald book I believe) trying to match the Rotol numbers to the production batches and hence serials, then looking for photos where both serial and prop can be seen/known, in order to attempt to match prop shape with identity and hence what to expect on any Mk.II. I still expect that Mk.IVs will turn out to be different, but it is impossible to be 100% certain of this. Or, for that matter, that prop variant changes will actually be visible anyway. Edited January 24, 2019 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 55 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: Note the clover emblem with the Ulster hand superimposed For sure it's a shamrock. It's a popular sort of symbol in "Norrn Irne "! Clover is pretty useless for luck unless it's got four leaves 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Shamrock is a type (or types, opinions vary!) of clover, so both are right! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 " I see...... "... (said like a psychiatrist looking over spectacles I'd love to know who the pilot was, of the" Irish " plane.. Any information?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 17 hours ago, Graham Boak said: I know that there were a number of different propellers applied, going on the Rotol Type list as in Mason's books, but I haven't been able to identify them individually. It does seem likely that a broader blade would go with the later engines, perhaps on the Mk.IV with its more powerful engine, although perhaps seen here on a Mk.IIc. The pointier tip with the straighter leading edge (rather than a more circular look) appears very similar to that on the Spitfire Mk.IX, which may also point to a date later than the first of the Rotol props, but this is countered by its appearance on the 1 Sq example. However in view of the difficulties in identifying what may be the same prop but seen from different pitch angles, I'd hate to have to choose between them for most examples. For example, are there three or only two different examples in your photos? PS I think it would be a good idea to go through Mason's list (in the original Macdonald book I believe) trying to match the Rotol numbers to the production batches and hence serials, then looking for photos where both serial and prop can be seen/known, in order to attempt to match prop shape with identity and hence what to expect on any Mk.II. I still expect that Mk.IVs will turn out to be different, but it is impossible to be 100% certain of this. Or, for that matter, that prop variant changes will actually be visible anyway. Troy did a bit on that here: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980181-hawker-hurricane-propellers-and-spinners-a-modellers-guide/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Which aircraft carried the 5 spoke wheels, and how long were they in use? (And are the CMK ones the only 1/72 one So?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave Fleming said: Which aircraft carried the 5 spoke wheels, and how long were they in use? (And are the CMK ones the only 1/72 one So?) Freightdog did a pair, too, but he seems to be out of stock right now. The CMK wheels are okay, but the Freightdog wheels are made to fit on the Airfix axle stubs while the CMK have circular holes for regular round axles. CMK on the left. Freightdog on the right. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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