All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

[224 Peter]

6 minutes ago, michael_hase said:

Good afternoon gentlemen,

 

something for our specialists and I bet Troy and Graham know....

 

The left side engine panel of HC-452 has two small round rods protuding from the panel. the ones below the first exhaust stub. Aero Detail 12, page 58 top right (no. 7) ays that these are air intakes which were added with the Mk. II-version. I did not find a proof for this yet. Well, Aero Detail is not correct with all info and sometimes simply trust on interpretation of museum aircraft which again had been restored previously.

 

Now, the Hurricane (HC-452) at Tikkakoski in Finland is a more or less an early Mk. I and looking at the pictures this panel was not a replacment during restauration. The pictures and original Hurricanes I know all have these two rods at the same place.

 

Also interestingly this Hurricane had thetwo bulges at the front-cowling ring on the upper half instead of - as known - on the lower part. I doubt that these were fixed "upside down" and vice-versa during the rastauration work in the late 90ies?

 

Does anyone know?

 

Best regards

 

Michael

 

Michael, 

 

the two small round tubes protruding from the left side cowl below the first exhaust stub are clearly shown in the photo I posted above. 

This photo was taken in France in March/April 1940 and shows A/C G (serial unknown) flown by Paul Ritchie of No 1 Squadron RAF. 

The A/C had a 2 blade prop, so has to be a Mk 1. 

This suggests that Aero Detail is not correct..indeed it may be that these intakes were discontinued with the Mk II version? 

 

 

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, corsaircorp said:

To me the burning wreck is more a Battle than a Hurricane.

Correct, the burning wreck is a Battle,  but it has the same(?) six straight exhaust pipes as shown on Hurricane H-27, which was what the questions was about,  I noticed the Belgian Battle had the same type exhaust fitted, and postulated that these had been fitted to Belgian Hurricanes at some point, as both have the same engine. 

I mentioned you as I wondered if you had any information on this, and if my guess was substantiated by any documentation.

Cheers

T

 

[Troy Smith]

54 minutes ago, 224 Peter said:

Michael, 

 

the two small round tubes protruding from the left side cowl below the first exhaust stub are clearly shown in the photo I posted above. 

This photo was taken in France in March/April 1940 and shows A/C G (serial unknown) flown by Paul Ritchie of No 1 Squadron RAF. 

The A/C had a 2 blade prop, so has to be a Mk 1. 

This suggests that Aero Detail is not correct..indeed it may be that these intakes were discontinued with the Mk II version? 

 

 

Shuttleworth Sea Hurricane IB

 

the pipes are for the generator

 

On 31/12/2018 at 19:00, dogsbody said:

If memory serves me correctly, they are cooling air inlet/outlet for the generator. Others may(probably do) know more.

 

Chris

 

still on a IIc

 

 

[Graham Boak]

1 hour ago, michael_hase said:

Also interestingly this Hurricane had thetwo bulges at the front-cowling ring on the upper half instead of - as known - on the lower part. I doubt that these were fixed "upside down" and vice-versa during the rastauration work in the late 90ies?

 

 

The photo I have just shows the usual two bulges on the upper cowling, to clear the cylinder head corners.  It may be confusing that these are on the yellow painted part of the nose, but the actual nose ring is shorter than this.  It could be that you have a photo showing the front more clearly - mine in in Gordon Riley's Hawker Hurricane Survivors.

[michael_hase]

many thanks I had the same impression that these two pipes were on all marks. 

 

If anyone gives me a short hint how to post own pictures here I could post the one with the bulges shortly

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[dogsbody]

2 hours ago, michael_hase said:

many thanks I had the same impression that these two pipes were on all marks. 

 

If anyone gives me a short hint how to post own pictures here I could post the one with the bulges shortly

 

Cheers

 

Michael

You will need to use a photo-hosting site, like Flickr, Imgur, etc.

 

I used to use Photobucket, but have switched to Flickr. You may choose whichever one you want.

 

 

 

Chris

[corsaircorp]

Hello Dears,

Ok, still Something to find out

P/O Tom Cooper Slipper was in 605th Sqdn seemingly coded JP... Something

Now the paint scheme on the undersides, Sky ?? Black and White ?? Silver dope ??

L2012 so it's a rag wing, still I will find the letter for this A/C...

Sincerely.

CC

 

[Kallisti]

I always thought those two pipes were on all marks - I'm currently doing the Fly 1:32  IID and they are present on that and in the ref photos I've been using.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Kallisti

[Graham Boak]

605 Sq was coded UP not JP.  (Not 605th: US and Italian units used ordinals, British used cardinal.)

 

The underside could be any of the ones you mention, at different times, though the upper surface markings would change appropriately.  (Fin flash, yellow rings.)   The UP code replaced HE at the start of the war, so you can probably rule out the Aluminium overall undersides.  The date 605 received Hurricanes would be a help here, I don't have it to hand.  Few fabric-covered wings survived in front-line service until the introduction of of Sky, but some did.

[AndyL]

1 hour ago, corsaircorp said:

Hello Dears,

Ok, still Something to find out

P/O Tom Cooper Slipper was in 605th Sqdn seemingly coded JP... Something

Now the paint scheme on the undersides, Sky ?? Black and White ?? Silver dope ??

L2012 so it's a rag wing, still I will find the letter for this A/C...

Sincerely.

CC

 

L2012 was UP-V. 

[Work In Progress]

44 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

  The date 605 received Hurricanes would be a help here, I don't have it to hand.

Squadron history here -

http://www.605squadron.co.uk/about_us.html

- says "Hawker Hurricanes began to arrive a few weeks before the outbreak of World War II and the squadron took up its war station at RAF Tangmere with a mixture of six Hurricanes and ten Gladiators, completing re-equipment during October 1939."

 

They'd only had the Gladiators since Jan '39, they were on Hinds before that.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Work In Progress

[JackG]

About the individual aircraft code for P/O Tom Cooper Slipper, seems he mainly was assigned to Red section.  Though one diary entry has him flying Yellow 2,  earlier entries from June 1940 have him in Red section, and specifically Red 3 on Sept. 4th - so possibly fuselage code C, but not 100% certainty.

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7492508

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7492676

 

regards,

Jack

[Graham Boak]

Sept 4 1940 means Sky.

[JackG]

22 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Sept 4 1940 means Sky.

Agreed, and according to Aces High,  L2012 was still flying in September as Cooper Slipper used it to ram a Dornier on the 15th of that month.   He  bailed out afterwards, so goes without saying, air frame was a write off. 

 

regards, 

Jack

Edited January 6, 2019 by JackG

[Dave Fleming]

6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Sept 4 1940 means Sky.

 

And roundels

[corsaircorp]

23 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

605 Sq was coded UP not JP.  (Not 605th: US and Italian units used ordinals, British used cardinal.)

 

The underside could be any of the ones you mention, at different times, though the upper surface markings would change appropriately.  (Fin flash, yellow rings.)   The UP code replaced HE at the start of the war, so you can probably rule out the Aluminium overall undersides.  The date 605 received Hurricanes would be a help here, I don't have it to hand.  Few fabric-covered wings survived in front-line service until the introduction of of Sky, but some did.

Hello Graham,

The Hurricane flown by Tom Cooper Slipper at the time of the ramming was a Rag wing one.

Since he was wondering about the issues for him if his kite at the time would have been a metal covered one...

Read it in a recollection of that day.

23 hours ago, AndyL said:

L2012 was UP-V. 

Thanks Andy !

Wilco !

22 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

Squadron history here -

http://www.605squadron.co.uk/about_us.html

- says "Hawker Hurricanes began to arrive a few weeks before the outbreak of World War II and the squadron took up its war station at RAF Tangmere with a mixture of six Hurricanes and ten Gladiators, completing re-equipment during October 1939."

 

They'd only had the Gladiators since Jan '39, they were on Hinds before that.

Hello WiP,

Thank for the help, Finally 605 in its history is about similar to 609th wich I have traced for years now !

 

18 hours ago, JackG said:

About the individual aircraft code for P/O Tom Cooper Slipper, seems he mainly was assigned to Red section.  Though one diary entry has him flying Yellow 2,  earlier entries from June 1940 have him in Red section, and specifically Red 3 on Sept. 4th - so possibly fuselage code C, but not 100% certainty.

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7492508

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7492676

 

regards,

Jack

Thanks Jack,

I will reproduce the Rag wing Hurricane flown in the 15th of September mission.

Seemingly at the time being, they flown with the one that was available and ready to fight...

So, UP-C or UP-V ???

18 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Sept 4 1940 means Sky.

 Thanks Graham,

it was for the 15th of September, but I suppose that Sky is still the way to go...

17 hours ago, JackG said:

Agreed, and according to Aces High,  L2012 was still flying in September as Cooper Slipper used it to ram a Dornier on the 15th of that month.   He  bailed out afterwards, so goes without saying, air frame was a write off. 

 

regards, 

Jack

Thanks Jack,

Right, I will depict her BEFORE that fatefull mission !

I'm not ready yet for trying to reproduce battle damaged aircrafts !!

Especially minus one wing and crashed… I'm not skilled enough for that job !!

 

11 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

 

And roundels

Thanks Dave,

So Sky with roundels !!

 

I will thank you all once again !

Hope that I'll not mess up that kit too much !!

Have a great modelling time !

Sincerely.

CC

[AndyL]

L2012 was UP-V, confirmed by Chris Cooper-Slipper, son of Tom.

[JackG]

CC, looks like you are all set to go markings wise.

 

Am curious though how a V coded aircraft ended up in red section - maybe it was a reserve frame?  Looking at a diary entry for that day, section was made up of four aircraft :

 

 

...taken from page 12 sample from here ;

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7492511

 

regards,

Jack

[Graham Boak]

The RAF was simply not that fussy.  Having the first part of the alphabet in A Flight was a rough guide but not universally applicable, and even when it was there would be times when aircraft would simply be used as available to make up formations.

[Doc72]

Good evening everybody,

I have currently two 1/72 Airfix Hurrys on my bench. The first will be become an early fabric-wing, two-blade propeller aircraft from 85 Sqn in France (VY-X) and the second is planned to end up as V7118 by 306 Sqn (with the help of the Alley Cat tin-wing). I hope you can help me with some questions regarding these aircraft:

 

1.) Did VY-X have a reflector gun sight or just the ring and bead? I think the Airfix kit does not include a gun sight, and while this might be correct for pre-war Hurricanes, I wonder if a reflector gun sight was fitted when 85 Sqn moved to France.

 

2.)  As far as I can see, V7118 in late 1940 was equipped with the Rotol propeller and the longer, pointy spinner. Where can I get this propeller? Quickboost produces two Rotol propeller for Hurricanes, but I can't tell from the pictures on the net, which one is the Spitfire-type and which one is the later version with the more pointy Spinner.

 

Thanks, Ole

[Max Headroom]

I saw this article via Pinterest on Roald Dahl’s wartime medals and his time flying Hurricanes over Athens and came upon the last photo in the thread. I’ve never seen Hurricanes with wing mounted racks of (10lb?) bombs.

 

https://m.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/roald-dahls-receive-medals.html

 

Was this a local mod?

 

Trevor

[Graham Boak]

The Quickboost Hurricane Mk.II spinner is the one needed for V7118.  QB72132.

 

The Light Store Carriers could be fitted to almost any aircraft.  Probably 20lb bombs in this case.  For Hurricanes in the Desert they are usually linked to 33 Sq as the first "Hurribomber" unit, so the date of this 80 Sq photo could upset that idea.  Or maybe the date of the 33 Sq photo is earlier, if it was 33 - I'll have to dig through the new Mediterranean Air War books to find the reference (thick books!).

 

 

[AndyL]

On 1/7/2019 at 4:59 PM, JackG said:

CC, looks like you are all set to go markings wise.

 

Am curious though how a V coded aircraft ended up in red section - maybe it was a reserve frame?  Looking at a diary entry for that day, section was made up of four aircraft :

 

 

...taken from page 12 sample from here ;

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7492511

 

regards,

Jack

Here's an example of the variance of aircraft code letters, covering 609 Squadron on 13th August 1940.

 

A Flight, Red Section: PR-J, H and E.

A Flight, Yellow Section: PR-K, G, and one Spitfire without a code letter.

B Flight,  Blue Section: PR-S, O, and M.

B Flight,  Green Section: PR-N, M* and L.

 

* 609 had two Spitfires with the letter M, but the one in B Flight was known as ' Mitzi'.

 

The spare Spitfire was PR-A.

 

Also 253 Squadron  stopped allocating the letter A to their Hurricanes as they suffered a run of losing aircraft carrying A, and decided it was an unlucky letter. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by AndyL
Additional information.

[Troy Smith]

On 07/01/2019 at 23:20, Doc72 said:

the second is planned to end up as V7118 by 306 Sqn (with the help of the Alley Cat tin-wing). I hope you can help me with some questions regarding these aircraft:

 

 

 

2.)  As far as I can see, V7118 in late 1940 was equipped with the Rotol propeller and the longer, pointy spinner. Where can I get this propeller? Quickboost produces two Rotol propeller for Hurricanes, but I can't tell from the pictures on the net, which one is the Spitfire-type and which one is the later version with the more pointy Spinner.

 

the Hurricane Rotol spinner is included in the Arma Hobby Hurricane I kit.  This is a far better option, as to be picky, if you use the Alleycat metal wing on the Airfix fabric wing kit,  it's great for making a early metal wing Hurricane,  without the rectangular starboard access hatch, these were in the L**** and N**** production batches.

see https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234963507-all-the-hurricane-questions-you-want-to-ask-here/&do=findComment&comment=3225093

 

 

[HKR]

One quick question. From Arma Hobby topic:

Quote

The problem with an open canopy on Hurricanes is that the real thing changes shape as it goes back and this is not possible to match in scale model tooling [...]

So we have quite nice model, and most commented part was canopy. I noted strange shape of the "open" canopy part, but "closed" variant is making me suspicious as well.

 

Q: can anybody explain HOW sliding hood changed during operation on the real thing? I mean, how it looked like when closed, how when open, what part (of it) changed shape, and how changed. I looked at many pictures and they are inconsistent, also fact that all restored flying machines have that part modified does not help.

In the AH model, closed part has narrower front cross section and wider rear, open part is even more wider in front and slightly narrower in rear. I would expect closed rear and front open should be the same, but due to specific design in that model they differ. But how it was in reality? Asking about real plane.

Edited January 10, 2019 by HKR