Jeff.K Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Thanks guys. I'm leaning toward IIb now. Even as coarse as the print quality is on that image, the cannon blisters should catch the light or cast a slight shadow. Serials are convincing too. Malta and certainty don't seem to go together well, do they... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Sea Hurricanes Mk.IIc with rocket fittings were used from Inskip for training pilots intended for Firefly squadrons. So there were certainly more than just one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Gazontipede said: I'm assuming that these were being used for training? the heads on the rockets look to be the concrete practice heads, but hopefully @airjiml2 will add some information about the picture a google brings up this, and @Selwyn is likely to know, as he has made some excellent postings on this subject. I would treat the colour call out on the above with caution, see also for some very useful information, and accurate colour info. HTH 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimea River Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 (edited) Back on the topic of RCAF 135 Squadron Hurricane Mk XII colours, general agreement exists that the Hurricane Mk XIIs produced by Canadian Car and Foundry and typically used by the Western Air Command in 1942 and 1943 carried the Canadian equivalent of the Royal Air Force (RAF) Temperate Land Scheme camouflage of Dark Green and Dark Earth upper surfaces and Sky undersides. Ian Huntley wrote an article called “RCAF Colours 1939-1945” in Scale Aircraft Modelling Magazine's November 1984 issue in which he states that “Like other Dominion and Commonwealth countries, Canada used the basis of the British Air Ministry and associates technical standards departments as a starting point for the RCAF” and that “Canadian Car and Foundry produced Hawker Hurricanes in …home produced paint, these making an interesting comparison with the 25 British-built and painted machines imported by Canada in 1937.” He goes on to say that, though the North American paint suppliers did their best to replicate the RAF equivalent Ministry of Air Production (MAP) colours being prepared for use by aircraft factories in the UK, in a report prepared by Air Ministry Production Controllers it is noted that “…..examination of a pack of sprayed out colours revealed many slight variations when compared with the sprayed MAP colour cards. The general observations were that Canadian Dark Earth was perhaps a fraction more red-brown; Dark Green a little more of a blue-green while the RCAF-titled ‘Duck egg bluish-green Sky’ a shade more on the blue side than its MAP counterpart….” The Canadian colours were also reported to "..... show a finer surface mattness than the standard DTO308…” Unfortunately, no known paint chips from the manufacturers that were actually used are known to exist today. Hurricane 5389, which served with 133 Squadron along with 135 on Canada's west coast, is undergoing restoration as we speak and is nearing the painting phase (see here). Badly faded remnants of the original green, brown, and sky paint along with the aforementioned subjective descriptions have led us to a custom paint formulation which will replicate as best as possible the actual colours used. For further info, @airjiml2 wrote an excellent 3 part article on the topic of Canadian Hurricanes for the IPMS, including colours. Edited April 30, 2018 by Crimea River 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff.K Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Quick shout-out here guys: the depth and breadth of knowledge being dropped in this thread has prompted me to read this thread from the beginning. I'll do likewise on the Spit threads. Spits and Hurris ain't even my main thing, and I ain't even British, but the Britmodeller forum is all kinds of awesome. Thanks everyone. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 (edited) On 4/30/2018 at 8:26 AM, Crimea River said: Back on the topic of RCAF 135 Squadron Hurricane Mk XII colours, general agreement exists that the Hurricane Mk XIIs produced by Canadian Car and Foundry and typically used by the Western Air Command in 1942 and 1943 carried the Canadian equivalent of the Royal Air Force (RAF) Temperate Land Scheme camouflage of Dark Green and Dark Earth upper surfaces and Sky undersides. Ian Huntley wrote an article called “RCAF Colours 1939-1945” in Scale Aircraft Modelling Magazine's November 1984 issue in which he states that “Like other Dominion and Commonwealth countries, Canada used the basis of the British Air Ministry and associates technical standards departments as a starting point for the RCAF” and that “Canadian Car and Foundry produced Hawker Hurricanes in …home produced paint, these making an interesting comparison with the 25 British-built and painted machines imported by Canada in 1937.” He goes on to say that, though the North American paint suppliers did their best to replicate the RAF equivalent Ministry of Air Production (MAP) colours being prepared for use by aircraft factories in the UK, in a report prepared by Air Ministry Production Controllers it is noted that “…..examination of a pack of sprayed out colours revealed many slight variations when compared with the sprayed MAP colour cards. The general observations were that Canadian Dark Earth was perhaps a fraction more red-brown; Dark Green a little more of a blue-green while the RCAF-titled ‘Duck egg bluish-green Sky’ a shade more on the blue side than its MAP counterpart….” The Canadian colours were also reported to "..... show a finer surface mattness than the standard DTO308…” Unfortunately, no known paint chips from the manufacturers that were actually used are known to exist today. Hurricane 5389, which served with 133 Squadron along with 135 on Canada's west coast, is undergoing restoration as we speak and is nearing the painting phase (see here). Badly faded remnants of the original green, brown, and sky paint along with the aforementioned subjective descriptions have led us to a custom paint formulation which will replicate as best as possible the actual colours used. For further info, @airjiml2 wrote an excellent 3 part article on the topic of Canadian Hurricanes for the IPMS, including colours. Any ideas on interior colors? In that Hurricane restoration you linked to the interior color looks to be much darker than the usual gray-green. Regards, Murph Edited May 2, 2018 by Murph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimea River Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Sorry but I can't really comment on the interior colour being used by the restoration team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonj Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I am anxious to try and source 2 x Decal sheets for the AIRFIX 1/24 Hawker Hurricane Mk I decals - Irish Air corps - Some people who built the RAF version may have these at hand, I will have all the stencils - it is just the Irish markings I need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 This is off topic for this thread, but I thought others might like to see the fun I've been having over winter. It's starting to look like a Hurricane (a little...). If things go to plan in a few years I might be able to provide @Troy Smith an accurate number for the Hurricane's length that's not scaled from a drawing.... I've been collaborating with a friend who is restoring a static Hurricane cockpit and he's lent me the drawings I need (with the understanding I don't share them...). Using these drawings and reverse engineering geometry, I've filled in the missing pieces. That's why it's so colourful, the colours remind me of how accurate the information was- light blue is good, other colours not so good. Dark green, for example, means I have no information for the part and I've traced an image (or not to scale drawing) to make it. I'm using Autodesk Fusion 360 for the solid modelling. The parts count is relatively low at the moment so my laptop seems to be performing OK. It's probably taken about 300 hours to get to the above, but possibly half of those were spent learning how to use Fusion 360 or being a bonehead. I'm hoping that by next winter I'll have the fuselage decking/doghouse (the faring around the cockpit) worked out relatively accurately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 On 4/28/2018 at 1:59 PM, dogsbody said: The image from above: Chris Thanks @dogsbody for inserting the image inline.@Troy Smith, what do you think about the armour that's on the outside of where the instrument panel is. This matches what we see on the MkIV P3395 at the Birmingham Thinktank, with the exception of what looks like armour on the top of the windshield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimea River Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Might be of help: Sourced here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/6940844471/?fref=nf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 10 hours ago, Crimea River said: Might be of help: .. Sourced here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/6940844471/?fref=nf Nice! It’s better quality than the version I have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAVY870 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 I went to the Wings over Illawarra airshow last Saturday and a genuine Hawker Hurricane went rumbling past up the taxyway. Dashed nice aeroplane 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Hi ASR hurricanes anyone know what was carried on the underwing rack stores, i am presuming the same as spitfires ? and did they have an under fuselage flare shute, again like the spitfires ? cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 ASR Hurricanes are news to me, but presumably would carry the same as the Defiants and Spitfires. As I understand it, all combat aircraft carried a flare chute as standard, as would need to be able to fire the colours of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work In Progress Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 I can't vouch for it personally but whoever wrote the Wikipedia article for 284 Squadron says it was them doing ASR with Hurricanes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._284_Squadron_RAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) Hi sorry should have mentioned Sqn's were 276 (had four) , 279 & 282 Sqn had them as well, somewhere in the info stash i have a photo of an asr hurricane over 'biscay' , but the view is from above & rear so was curious to see if anyone knew what the underwing stores were cheers jerry Edited May 11, 2018 by brewerjerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airjiml2 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 On 5/1/2018 at 5:58 AM, Murph said: Any ideas on interior colors? In that Hurricane restoration you linked to the interior color looks to be much darker than the usual gray-green. Regards, Murph CCF built Hurricanes were mostly aluminum paint on the interior. There is one extant aircraft in Canada in which the interior was never repainted, and it matches period photos outside of some missing items. I'll dig out my photos and report back on the green portions. Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airjiml2 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 (edited) On 4/30/2018 at 1:11 AM, Gazontipede said: Wow, thanks for the quick response Troy. So it was done. But not, apparently, on operations. At least in this instance, I'm assuming that these were being used for training? (A possibly dangerous assumption as they could very well be being used as patrol aircraft.) Yes, they were used for training. The RCAF RP modified Hurricanes were used by 1 OTU at Bagotville and its associated No. 1 ATTD (Advanced Tactical Training Detachment) at Greenwood. Modifications were done by No. 4 RD at Scoudouc. There is a photo of the installation in my IPMS Canada article series. Jim Edited May 11, 2018 by airjiml2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airjiml2 Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 On 4/24/2018 at 5:18 AM, Murph said: I'm assuming this photo is a "colorized" b&w one then; the colors certainly look odd (not to mention the tail flash with the shortened white center section). That is a very poorly done colourized photo. There is some colour video or a RCAF HWE Hurricane here: See 29:30. Jim 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 On 5/11/2018 at 11:37 AM, airjiml2 said: Yes, they were used for training. The RCAF RP modified Hurricanes were used by 1 OTU at Bagotville and its associated No. 1 ATTD (Advanced Tactical Training Detachment) at Greenwood. Modifications were done by No. 4 RD at Scoudouc. There is a photo of the installation in my IPMS Canada article series. Jim A couple images from the IPMS Canada's Random Thoughts Winter 2016 issue. Chris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazontipede Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 Thanks for those super pics Chris! I'm wondering if/how many of the machine-guns were removed when fitted with the RP launchers? It certainly looks like the only operational use of RP on Hurris was by the Mk.IV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 31 minutes ago, Gazontipede said: It certainly looks like the only operational use of RP on Hurris was by the Mk.IV. Sea Hurricanes on HMS Vindex were equipped with ship made conversion using the RP's from Swordfish and were used operationally note the spacer bars at the rear of the rockets, angling them up, and the clipped of UC door corners more here 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazontipede Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Troy Smith said: Sea Hurricanes on HMS Vindex were equipped with ship made conversion using the RP's from Swordfish and were used operationally note the spacer bars at the rear of the rockets, angling them up, and the clipped of UC door corners more here Now that is a worthy subject to model! I have some spare Tamiya 25lb RP from a Mosquito, now all I have to do is find a 1/72 Sea Hurricane IIC. (IIRC both Revell & Airfix have released Sea Hurricane IICs this milennium.) Any ideas or opinions on the colours of the rather glossy two tone spinner seen here? Black/white, black/yellow? This build thread is of K1.P (NF728) on HMS Ravager and it includes (near the bottom of the thread) an interesting shot of the aircraft up on its nose showing what looks like another RP installation under the wings but lacking cannon. It looks like it is for eight RP this time. The lack of cannon is nagging at me though. Was NF728 a IIC after all? Another build thread is of 'G' (I cant make out the s/n on the photos) on HMS Vindex with the four RP fit seen above. Does anyone have any further codes/serials for any other 'RP IICs' from either Vindex or Ravager? Edited May 16, 2018 by Gazontipede Did a bit of googling myself to try and be useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 It's the mounting for the rockets, but the guns were often removed from these trainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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