All the Hurricane questions you want to ask here

[Paco]

To the best of my knowledge the MKIV had the armour plating as shown in the photos above.

[StevSmar]

2 hours ago, Max Headroom said:

Where is that example? I thought there were only two left, the one in Belgrade and one in Birmingham....Trevor

It’s owned by Robs Lamplough. According to “Hawker Hurricane Survivors” by Gordon Riley it was recovered from Jaffa along with “KZ321” and is stored in the same condition shown above.

 

What I would give for some close up photos of the radiator armour, it’s the only armour that survives that I know of.

[72modeler]

Steven in Winnipeg,

 

Just took a good look at the Hurricane Mk IV photo you posted that showed it in storage, A lot more makes sense, now- I didn't realize that the armor plate was in one piece that bolted to the outside of the radiator housing...makes perfect sense, as the armor plate could be fitted and/or removed, as needed, which also explains why its outline is proud of the contours of the radiator fairing. (Does that make sense? Hard to describe!) Anyway, thanks for posting the photo...now I can pull my Mk V conversion off of my  OOTD shelf (One Of These Days) and begin figuring out where all the correct panel lines need to go...then there's those two pesky little warts (blisters) on top of the wings that IIRC were finally determined after discussion to be fitted in the event that a different version of the 40mm cannon was installed, which never materialized. Much obliged, podnuh!

 Mike in Texas

[MIkeMaben]

 

Any significance to the five spoke wheels ?

Were they used on most Mk IVs ?

 

 

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, MIkeMaben said:

Any significance to the five spoke wheels ?

Were they used on most Mk IVs ?

 

 

Apart from the first two Hurricane batches,  the L**** and N**** serials,   all Hurricanes have the 4 spoke hub.

 

the one in storage  looks to have these 5 spoke,  but they may well be a pair of Spitfire wheels, or hubs, as the hubs on Hurricane and Spitfire as the same I believe, fitted  for ease of movement.

the Hurricane IV in Belgrade has wheels from a F-68 IIRC.

On 20/11/2017 at 01:37, StevSmar said:

According to “Hawker Hurricane Survivors” by Gordon Riley it was recovered from Jaffa along with “KZ321” and is stored in the same condition shown above.

 

I'm guessing these are leftover 6 Squadron planes, as they were based in Palestine post war.

I have though a whif Israeli Hurricane would be neat, they did assemble a Spitfire from left behind airframes, maybe they didn't have enough Hurricane bits...

 

[72modeler]

48 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

 

Apart from the first two Hurricane batches,  the L**** and N**** serials,   all Hurricanes have the 4 spoke hub.

 

the one in storage  looks to have these 5 spoke,  but they may well be a pair of Spitfire wheels, or hubs, as the hubs on Hurricane and Spitfire as the same I believe, fitted  for ease of movement.

the Hurricane IV in Belgrade has wheels from a F-68 IIRC.

 

I'm guessing these are leftover 6 Squadron planes, as they were based in Palestine post war.

I have though a whif Israeli Hurricane would be neat, they did assemble a Spitfire from left behind airframes, maybe they didn't have enough Hurricane bits...

 

Yep- good eye, Troy! Those are definitely F-86 wheels on the Belgrade  Hurricane Mk IV; I'm betting they are off of an F-86D, as the Yugoslavs flew that version of the Sabre.

Mike

[johnd]

7 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Apart from the first two Hurricane batches,  the L**** and N**** serials,   all Hurricanes have the 4 spoke hub.

Was the 4 spoke hub introduced to cope with the extra weight of the metal wing? If so, what happened when an early airframe was re-winged? Presumably, new wheels would be part of the process?

 

John.

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, johnd said:

Was the 4 spoke hub introduced to cope with the extra weight of the metal wing?

No, as there are plenty of metal winged  L and N serial Hurricanes.

 

4 hours ago, johnd said:

If so, what happened when an early airframe was re-winged? Presumably, new wheels would be part of the process?

Personally I think re-winging was not that common,  I suspect it occurred when a fabric wing Hurricane wings were damaged and then replaced.

Sadly we don't have an online database of hurricane production, like the Spitfire one.

 

 there are certainly two fabric wing Hurricanes that retained them into Training Command,  L1592 , now in the Science Museum, and  L1926

 

there are photos in Hurricane at War 2  showing a landing mishap in DFS,  and the wings are still fabric.

And, L1926 above now has an 8 inch serial,  when built L and N Hurricanes had a distinctive 6 serial.

as seen here

Hurricane by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Now it maybe L1926 has just been repainted, but also quite possibly has been refabriced on the fuselage?

 

I'll try to find the posts of a 1 Sq RCAF Hurricane that look to have been rewinged...

 

HTH

 

 

[StevSmar]

If you've ever wondered about the Hurricane which was converted to ski's in Canada....

 

(Hmmm, this is very frustrating. The image was there last night but not today.... I bet my computer was using some sort of cache.)

Edited November 29, 2017 by StevSmar
Piece of poo-poo computers.

[mhaselden]

13 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 there are certainly two fabric wing Hurricanes that retained them into Training Command,  L1592 , now in the Science Museum, and  L1926

 

 

That's a great photo, Troy.  Any ideas on the Squadron identity?  The code letters are barely visible but it's tough to make a definitive statement based on this image.

 

Many thanks,
Mark

[Troy Smith]

15 minutes ago, mhaselden said:

 

That's a great photo, Troy.  Any ideas on the Squadron identity?  The code letters are barely visible but it's tough to make a definitive statement based on this image.

 

Many thanks,
Mark

sorry,  it's famous image,(linked off wiki) and assumed it was obvious....  I'd forgotten the serial but could remember the Sq and  date which was how I found it. 

Anyway  it's a 312 Sq,  Czech.  code  is DU,   undoubtedly on a decal sheet. I'd be very surprised if not!

 

the later nose over in training  command photo is not on the net as yet.

it's here, https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yXkpDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT455&lpg=PT455&dq=hawker+hurricane+l1926&source=bl&ots=C2raSMLKjO&sig=7qWTfUt0hRvMPpiqaVP1Pr1vT78&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiO5-Hs6uLXAhVMLsAKHZF4AcsQ6AEIOzAF#v=onepage&q=hawker hurricane l1926&f=false

 

you might need to scroll up,  the fabric wing is really clear.

cheers

T

[mhaselden]

Thanks Troy.  Appreciate the additional info.

[Troy Smith]

14 minutes ago, mhaselden said:

Thanks Troy.  Appreciate the additional info.

pleasure...funny what you don't notice though (I may have made the connection before.... and forgotten)

 

 

note OP-M is L1926.....  note 6 inch serial.  Note sure if I can think of another wartime Hurricane in 3 documented schemes.

 

AML do the DU-J decals on a  312 Sq sheet.

 

cheers

T

[rob Lyttle]

My goodness, I'd kinda forgotten how small the 303 ammo is!

It must have been a major step change when the Yanks turned up brandishing their 50 caliber gear!

[Graham Boak]

But they in turn were also small compared to the 20mm which was the RAF standard by the time the USAAF did turn up.

[Max Headroom]

I’ll see your 20mm toy and raise you a 40mm Vickers Type S shooty shooty bang bang cannon.

 

 

Trevor

[rob Lyttle]

Right, nothing else for it.

I'm gonna shorten the barrel on this 6pounder field gun and mount it in the nose of a Mossie!💨

 

I must say, that Hurricane does look fairly handy, though.

And shiny!

Edited November 29, 2017 by rob Lyttle

[Smithy]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

But they in turn were also small compared to the 20mm which was the RAF standard by the time the USAAF did turn up.

 

I can still remember when I first saw the difference between a .303, .50 cal and a 20mm shell - very eye-opening.

 

And then I saw Watanabe's illustration in actual scale of the different types of 30mm German cannon shells. It's quite sobering when you consider just how much damage such sized ammunition could do to an airframe, let alone aircrew.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Smithy

[72modeler]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 2:40 AM, johnd said:

Was the 4 spoke hub introduced to cope with the extra weight of the metal wing? If so, what happened when an early airframe was re-winged? Presumably, new wheels would be part of the process?

 

John.

John,

 

This is just a guess, and Graham or Tony will probably know the reason, but I'm thinking the stronger 4-spoke wheels were fitted to cater with the weight of the 4 20mm Hispanos, along with their ammunition and ammo cans of the Mk IIc's, as well as the bombs/external tanks/rockets/40mm cannon that were often carried by the later Mk IV/V's.

Mike

[Max Headroom]

39 minutes ago, rob Lyttle said:

Right, nothing else for it.

I'm gonna shorten the barrel on this 6pounder field gun and mount it in the nose of a Mossie!💨

 

I must say, that Hurricane does look fairly handy, though.

And shiny!

I guess the recoil would have stopped them in their tracks! I believe the Molins in the Mosquito was a manual reload affair and I’m guessing the rate of fire on the 40mm was slow but steady?

 

Trevor

[stevehnz]

The Molins gun in the Mosquito was indeed a self loader, what in rifle terms would be called a semi auto. The mechanism was designed by Molins who designed cigarette manufacturing machines if memory serves me, later adapted to MGBs and the like.

Steve.

Edited December 29, 2017 by stevehnz
spelling. :(

[rob Lyttle]

(from memory...)

Ted Molins used his expertise in cigarette manufacturing machinery, handling cylindrical shaped items, to come up with an automatic breech load mechanism .

 

90 rounds/ min. and 25 shells in the magazine.

 

A Wing Co. Rose came across a Ju88 off Land's End Cornwall while flying out of Predannack.

He blew one engine clean out of its wing with the first shot.

Edited November 30, 2017 by rob Lyttle
more

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, 72modeler said:

but I'm thinking the stronger 4-spoke wheels were fitted to cater with the weight of the 4 20mm Hispanos, along with their ammunition and ammo cans of the Mk IIc's, as well as the bombs/external tanks/rockets/40mm cannon that were often carried by the later Mk IV/V's.

While this is the case  of the Spitfire,  the  4 spoke hub is standard on the Hurricane  after the first two Hawker batches, L**** and N****,  judging from photos, so that's from early 1940 onwards.

 

I've not seen an operational  L**** or N**** with anything but a 5 spoke,   though I'm sure survivors got retro fitted, eg

L1592 post war,  4 spoke just visible

http://www.aviationphotocompany.com/img/s/v-3/p1504117921-3.jpg 

and I've never seen a later Hurricane with 5 spoke (except the salvaged  Mk.IV above)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[StevSmar]

https://flic.kr/p/DjRjKa

 

Photo which shows what looks like armour or ballast on Shuttelworths Sea Hurricane behind the spinner.

Edited December 29, 2017 by StevSmar
I hate image hosting sites....

[stevehnz]

Oil catch ring, 'cause British industry couldn't make oil seals to save itself so to prevent oil from the prop hub coating the canopy, they fitted these to catch stray oil in the top half of the prop's rotation & divert it to below the canopy line.

Steve