Procopius Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 And I waited and waited to see if there were any accuracy issues with the Sword kit, and then bought one on Monday. And here we are now. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Well, I'm not going to lose sleep over it, Side by side with my Airfix F2 it looks fine. And will build the T5 too when I get the Lightning bug again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Wilson Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Well as I started all this I'd like to say thanks for all the replies. To be honest I'd assumed this had already been talked about and I'd missed it! They're both nice kits and I don't think a few mm here or there would stop me buying either again. As has been said I think the 55ft 3in measurement includes the nose probe and tailplanes making it harder to measure the true fuselage length. The wider cockpit of the T4/5 may accentuate the appearance as well. I'm sure someone with more knowledge and info than me will get to the bottom of this. Stuart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddy Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) PS In Aircraft Engineering there is always a basic assumption that the drawings are wrong - only the dimensions are correct. DR And not only in aircraft engineering. In every DO, wherever in the world I've worked, the legend "DO NOT SCALE THIS DRAWING", or words to that effect, is on every pre-printed drawing sheet. Placing a model part on a "scale" drawing for ascertaining the model's accuracy, is, in my opinion, equivalent to scaling a drawing. Dimensions are what count, and even they may be controversial. Edited June 12, 2014 by chaddy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Here you are. Just had to scarifice my two virgin kits to sort this issue out(hopefully.)I matched up as best I could both the Airfix fuselage and Sword. You can see they are both same length!!! BUT what I did find was the fact that the nose wheel bay on the Sword kit is further aft so this is where I suspect the odd look has come about.: rear end from the top line. The spine thickness differences show but end at the same place for the fin!!! And the Airbrakes line up too!! I squared up each half as best I could given the obvious differences between the two and taped as best I could. The Airfix one has the intake ring as part of the intake trunking. The Sword kit has a built nose ring note and each kit has virtually identical jet pipe arrangement as far as kit parts go if you get what I mean. Edited to another post with new pics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Has the Sword kit got the nose ring moulded integrally? Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Yes Iain. As is the Airfix one. Panel lines vary too!By the way for those who don't have either kit, the Sword one is the one in darker blue/grey plastic.EDIT: Sorry, but the Airfix nose ring is separate and is part of the intake trunking. See blow with corrected pics and the error in lengths!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 OOOPS!!! Red face for me! I thought there was something else strange. The nose ring on the Airfix one is actaully part of the intake trunking SOOOO the Sword kit is the width of the ring shorter!!! Thats the descrepancy!!!Not a very good pic as I did it in a rush But when one looks at the rearend now there IS a difference by about 3 mm NO more than that! I'm going off to check in a minute!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Fresh images of fuselage descrepancy between AFX and SWD!!Tail end matched as best I can and shows is fine. It looks out of line 'cos it moved when I took picture.Nose end where the problem lies. This time with the trunking and intake ring of the Airfix one taped in place. This is what I had overlooked in my earlier post above and hence those pics are now gone!! BUT the nose bay position is Stilll not the same!!!!!!Dark plastic one is the Sword kit with built in intake ring.So, my findings are the Sword kit is shorter by around 2.5 to 3.00mm, and nose wheel bay further back by about the same amount!!!!!., Hence the error is mainly in the nose end!! Question now is is it worth correcting? How? And can we live with it?? (By the way, while I had all the bits out strewn around my work station in the shed I compared some parts and found a number of very close similarities like main undercart doors, flaps, main wheel bays) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousAA72 Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 (edited) I offered up the intake trunking from the Airfix kit to the Sword kit, and it's apparent that the Sword kits nose is wrong. The intake ring is too small. By using the Airfix part, the length is better but not forward of the cockpit. As I said earlier the missing 3-4mm is I think aft of the cockpit mid "hump". Is it worth cutting and extending? Well that's down to the individual of course, But I think, having seen a few built T-birds built the length issue isn't that much of a problem, what WILL improve the model is a replacement nose ring and radome, as Dennis correctly pointer out earlier the Sword kits built in offering should be narrower at the bottom, giving a slightly downward slant. the diameter is too small. I have also compared the wing shape of the Sword kit to Ali's F1/F2 conversion itself based on the Airfix kit, and the Sword kit is slightly shorter in chord and at the root. All of this is of course assuming that the Airfix kit is more accurate than the Sword kit. You pays your money and you takes your choice, but I know what I have my 2/6d is on!! Edited June 13, 2014 by Bill Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Laidlaw Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 And I waited and waited to see if there were any accuracy issues with the Sword kit, and then bought one on Monday. And here we are now. So it's your fault, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I knew this would be fun! I knew I should have waited but a Lightning sucker and his money are easily parted. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Ogilvie Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Showing traits of being based on similar drawings to the Trumpeter kits... Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procopius Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 So it's your fault, eh? I accept full responsibility for this debacle, Britmodeller. Do what you will with me, but leave the girl out of this*. *She doesn't know I bought more models. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacktjet Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 To my eye, the shape of the Sword kit cockpit and front end looks wrong anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin @ Freightdog Models Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Showing traits of being based on similar drawings to the Trumpeter kits... Iain I don't have either kits to hand, but I suspect you would be better comparing a Sword fuselage to a Trumpeter fuselage, and also suspect its not the same drawings that have been used, maybe the same Trumpeter fuselage? Colin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Now *this* is the way it's supposed to work. Glad I didn't buy the Sword kit! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 As I said earlier, I can live with the decrepancies now I have found them. Still have a T5 but am looking to see if I can amend the nose ring area to make some improvement. But I do notice that the missile rails resemble the Trump ones very closely whereas all the other areas which I have mentione earlier strongly resemble Airfix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 My first impression of the Sword kit was that the belly shape resembled the Trumpeter in being too fat in cross section. The Neomega T4 conversion for the Trumpeter kit also has that same problem but it doesn't have the airbrakes molded in place which the Sword kit does have. Maybe there is still room for Airfix to do a twin seat Lightning after all? Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dambuster Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Maybe there is still room for Airfix to do a twin seat Lightning after all? Duncan B Only if it is 1/48 scale!!!! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Maybe there is still room for Airfix to do a twin seat Lightning after all? Duncan B Only if it is 1/48 scale!!!! Peter No Peter, they have to do it in BOTH 1/72nd AND 1/48th 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin @ Freightdog Models Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Even if it is based on the trumpy one it still looks pretty good, the worst part of the trumpeter one for me was the narrow tailpipes, and the sword kit is definately miles ahead in that area. I don't have one but I looked a Paul J's one at model club and first impressions were really positive, I will still be getting one as I don't think anyone is likely to improve on it especially at the good price they are asking. Colin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennings Heilig Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 My first impression of the Sword kit was that the belly shape resembled the Trumpeter in being too fat in cross section. The Neomega T4 conversion for the Trumpeter kit also has that same problem but it doesn't have the airbrakes molded in place which the Sword kit does have. Maybe there is still room for Airfix to do a twin seat Lightning after all? Duncan B How about grafting the nose of the Matchbox kit to the Airfix kit?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan B Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 How about grafting the nose of the Matchbox kit to the Airfix kit?? I think the Matchbox kit gets slated for the shape of the nose but maybe the Neomega nose onto the Airfix kit would go or even the Alleycat belly and modified Airfix wings onto the Neomega fuselage (how much crazier can it get?). Maybe my Whirlybird resin Lightnings have had a stay of execution. Duncan B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Lambess Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Hello Cans , Hi Worms, ......... ive just run the Airfix fuselage up against the Whirlykits T:5 and interestingly enought the airfix nose is still signifigantly longer.......... hmmmmm ive also got the neomega conversion and the aeroclub one stored , so as soon as i dig them out ill check those as well (which ultimatley will prove nothing , although i suspect john Adams kit will be the most accurate to reality....) as far as i can tell the Trumpy botchup is based on a set of Ian Huntley plans from an old SAM which even on the page look quite suspect (unusual for Ian i might add....) im wondering if a brand new resin conversion nose intake is the way to go although I suspect Bill is right and the missing length is behind the cockpit. for those of us bothered by it , maybe the best thing to do is tie ho for a little while longer , untill some definitive answer appears (if ever) least we all create another false internet "meme" like the recently disproved "fact" that the Frog Whitleys rear fuselage is too narrow ......(its not , people were falsley assuming it has the same rear turret as a Lanc ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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