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Airfix/Sword Lightning length issues?


Stuart Wilson

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Hi,

I'm just decaling the Sword Lightning T5 and as the instructions for the stencils are near useless I was using my completed Airfix F2A as a guide when I noticed the Sword kit looked a bit shorter. A quick comparison shows the Sword kit is about 4mm shorter (about the length of the chrome nose ring). A look at the only reference I have, the SAM Modellers Datafile shows a length of 55ft 3in for all versions. So at least one of them must be wrong.

I tried to compare them to the plans in the book and while this was hampered by both kits being built the Sword kit seems to be right and the Airfix too long.

So is the Airfix kit wrong? Or is Sword and SAM wrong? Or all of them? Or just me, and should I go back to building panzers?

Stuart

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The Trumpeter 1/32 kit was checked against the SAM Modeller's Datafile drawings, and they apparently matched.

Airfix/Trevor Snowden got their drawings from BAC (for the 1/48 kits,) and kept them for future use.

That should tell you all you need to know.

Edited by Edgar
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Why does someone posting a legitimate question about the scale fidelity of a scale model kit on a scale modeling forum evoke "can of worms" responses?

I just don't get it. What's the point of the forum if not that? Otherwise we should rename it "Everything's Rosy All The Time" forum.

Edited by Jennings Heilig
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Why does someone posting a legitimate question about the scale fidelity of a scale model kit on a scale modeling forum evoke "can of worms" responses?

I just don't get it. What's the point of the forum if not that? Otherwise we should rename it "Everything's Rosy All The Time" forum.

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All I'm going to say is the argument and discussions about the accuracy of scale plans/drawings has been done to death here.

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Sorry - as good at this as my modelling. Good point by Jennings I meant to add. I am a "if it looks right" school but love the detailed highly technical discussions you have on here when they don't get personal. So two well regarded kits of an airframe that has one length....who is right. 4mm around 1ft...

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Hi,

A look at the only reference I have, the SAM Modellers Datafile shows a length of 55ft 3in for all versions.

Stuart

I have to say that the SAM Datafiles are about as low in the heirachy of accuracy as I tend to look. If I were you I'd have done the same - asked here for an opinion by someone with better sources.

Shane

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Hi,

I'm just decaling the Sword Lightning T5 and as the instructions for the stencils are near useless I was using my completed Airfix F2A as a guide when I noticed the Sword kit looked a bit shorter. A quick comparison shows the Sword kit is about 4mm shorter (about the length of the chrome nose ring). A look at the only reference I have, the SAM Modellers Datafile shows a length of 55ft 3in for all versions. So at least one of them must be wrong.

I tried to compare them to the plans in the book and while this was hampered by both kits being built the Sword kit seems to be right and the Airfix too long.

So is the Airfix kit wrong? Or is Sword and SAM wrong? Or all of them? Or just me, and should I go back to building panzers?

Stuart

Or they both could be wrong by 2mm, one 1mm short at the nose and 1 mm short at the tail, and the other 1mm too long at the nose and 1 mm too long at the tail, based on whatever datum you choose. (Or any other combination).

Why don't you measure the actual length of the model then multiply by 72 and compare the result to published dimensions?

Peter

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The Trumpeter 1/32 kit was checked against the SAM Modeller's Datafile drawings, and they apparently matched.

Airfix/Trevor Snowden got their drawings from BAC (for the 1/48 kits,) and kept them for future use.

That should tell you all you need to know.

Airfix also got their drawings for the Battle from Faireys, way back when... :coolio: But no doubt the ones they got from BAe for the Lightnings were better suited for their respective task. Regarding drawings in SAM, it probably depends on who did them.

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But no doubt the ones they got from BAe for the Lightnings were better suited for their respective task.

Quite possibly, since they supplied the drawings from which Frank Brown produced the Echelon Lightning.
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While I'm quite pleased this thread hasn't actually gone into meltdown I notice that the OP's original question about the kit lengths hasn't been answered. I'd measure them myself but I'm currently separated from my stash (don't worry, I'm receiving counselling for my separation anxiety) so can someone be brave and post their findings? Promise not to burn you as a heretic, honest!

Duncan B

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While I'm quite pleased this thread hasn't actually gone into meltdown I notice that the OP's original question about the kit lengths hasn't been answered. I'd measure them myself but I'm currently separated from my stash (don't worry, I'm receiving counselling for my separation anxiety) so can someone be brave and post their findings?

Duncan B

I'm holding the kit in my hand, but without building it I'm afraid that any measurement would be a very approximate result. However, the length quoted above (55'3") is represented by a model 234mm long.

I have no idea whether that includes the pitot or not, nor what datum was used, and my confidence in the Datafiles is at best qualified so I also have no idea whether either kit *should* be that length however it's measured.

Shane

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I'd put my money on the Airfix kit being pretty well bang on - Sword kit short - especially if based on most of the published drawings - which are poor to say the least.

Iain

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Doesn't it all revolve around what is the published dimension for the length ???

Does it include the nose probe??

Is it measured with the airframe straight and level (if its a tailsitter) ?

You need to know exactly how the measurment was taken and use it accordingly.

Without wishing to sidetrack, there is a similar problem with kits of the Flanker......

The published dimension for length EXLUDES THE NOSE PROBE - but some kit makers included it in their fuselage dimension - resulting in kits that were too short by the length of the probe.

Just saying.....

Ken

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Given that the length of the Lightning nose probe is greater than the 4mm quoted difference between the kits, this is unlikely to be a problem here. It must be easy enough to measure the length of both kits with and without probes to see if one of the measured dimensions comes out Bingo!

There may also be differences as to whether it was measured sitting on its wheels as the RAF may have required for allocating hangarage, or along the aircraft datum as the manufacturer may well have measured it on their drawing boards. Again, this is likely to come out less than the 4mm suggested.

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I've got both models in front of me made up and did a quick measure from from the wing leading edge root to the front edge of the intake ring on both and both come up as 43mm.

I think the twin seat nose shape gives the illusion of it being shorter.

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According to my Lightning course notes, dated 1983, the primary dimensions of a Lightning are/were:-

Overall Length (from the tip of the pitot head, without cover, to the rearmost tip of the tailplanes) - 55 feet 3 inches

Overall Span (projected) - 34 feet 10 inches.

Wheel Track ( from the centres of the ground/tyre contact point) - 12 feet 10.35 inches

As I see it Stuart, you have two solutions:-

1) Fit a longer/shorter pitot to the longer/shorter model so that they both look right.

2) Forget about it and enjoy your modelling.

HTH

Dennis

PS In Aircraft Engineering there is always a basic assumption that the drawings are wrong - only the dimensions are correct.

DR

PPS I assume that the width of the top of the intake ring is wider than the bottom is it ?. If not - it's wrong.

Edited by sloegin57
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I've got both models in front of me made up and did a quick measure from from the wing leading edge root to the front edge of the intake ring on both and both come up as 43mm.

I think the twin seat nose shape gives the illusion of it being shorter.

I've compared the fuselages of two unmade kits and the T5/4 is indeed some 4mm shorter than the F2a. Or is the F2a

Longer than the T5/4? Either way the discrepancy seems to be aft of the cockpit where the hump is! I've not checked on the wing leading edge yet. If the Sword kit is short, then a 4mm plug may or not improve matters, but what a shame if it is...and I'm afraid Sword's kit does match R.Caruana's drawings in the SAMI book....

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