Best Buffalo kit in 1/72nd?

[tempestfan]

I have not kept track if finally one is available, but a true Finnish B239 should be assured of good sales.

[JohnMacG]

The belly windows - as I understand it, the Finnish B-239s were delivered with the belly window, initially flew with them, but had them plated over as soon as they went in for an overhaul.

The Belgian, Dutch and British Brewsters all had the belly window, and as mentioned above, I've never seen a pic of them being plated over.

Even the 339-23/F2A-3 had a belly window, of different shape, even tho' the pilot couldn't see through it because a large fuel tank had been installed under the cockpit.

Mark has it right about the Brewster in Malaya/Singapore, there were far too few for the task. But also most of the pilots were completely inexperienced and stright out of flying school, and were up against vastly more experienced pilots flying somewhat better aircraft. Another point that is rarely mentioned is there was a distinct shortage of ground crews, most of whom were as poorly trained as the pilots.

One last point about the Brewater; the Dutch thought that their B-339Cs/Ds, at least with half-filled fuel tanks, was just as manoeuvrable as the Ki43 'Oscars' they encountered.

[mhaselden]

If you go by/believe this Wikipedia page about 71 Squadron, they had the Buffalo from Oct 1940 - Nov 1940

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._71_Squadron_RAF

Seeing as the 170 odd 339E's didn't start arriving in Singapore/Malaya from the US, till Spring of 1941 (March- April-May ish), I'm not sure when 71 Squadron would have flown them, as at that time again according to the Wiki Page, 71 Squadron were flying Hurricanes in Britain.

Only three 339E's were sent to Britain for testing, if 71 Squadron did fly them - you see where this is going.

Hi Alan,

The aircraft flown by 71 Sqn were ex-Belgian B339Bs. They did have 3 on strength but were rapidly disposed of for the reasons identified elsewhere in the thread. The 3 B339Es (W8131-W8133) despatched to the UK only arrived in lateMarch/early April 1941 and were used exclusively for testing at A&AEE. W8131 was destroyed due to a mid-air fire in February 1942 while the remaining 2 aircraft became instructional airframes at RAF Cosford effective 20 June 1942.

Cheers,

Mark

[jimmaas]

Just a minor tweak regarding the ventral windows. All versions had them* except the F2A-3. The Model 339-23, which had the same elongated fuselage as the F2A-3, did have the ventral window, since it did not have the extra fuel tank, beneath the pilot's seat, that the F2A-3 carried. However, the F2A-3 had the outline of the ventral window, since the window, hinged on the centreline, also served as an access hatch. In addition, the 'solid' covering on the F2A-3 had the two oval openings at the rear, just like the openings that were at the rear of the ventral windows for the F2A-2 and all the Model 339's. These were vents to avoid carbon monoxide buildup. On the F2A-1 and Model 239, they were not on the ventral window, but rather on the rear fuselage, just below the fin.

*As noted above, the Finns progressively plated them over during overhauls.

Edited June 6, 2014 by jimmaas

[Procopius]

What specifically is wrong with the 1/72 Special Hobby Buffaloes? Can it be corrected?

[Kari Lumppio]

The belly windows - as I understand it, the Finnish B-239s were delivered with the belly window, initially flew with them, but had them plated over as soon as they went in for an overhaul.

...

Hello!

I have researched this in Finnish archives and while the overhaul thing is generally correct personally I wouldn't choose "as soon as" in this context. Brewsters arrived in 1940 and first mention of bottom window panes replaced with metal sheets is from September, 1942 (BW-379). Before that official overhaul etc. documents I have read show the bottom windows had been repaired.

The last mention of repaired bottom window for Finnish Brewster is from overhaul report dated March 12th, 1943 (BW-363), Even in Summer 1944 can be found notes that window clear panes were only partially replaced with metal sheets.

Most of people will build either BW-364 (Juutilainen) or BW-393 (Luukkanen / Wind).

BW-364 had three clear panes replaced with metal in October 19th, 1943. Six months after Juutilainen had been transferred to Messerschmitt squadron. I would probably model BW-364 with full clear bottom window, especially if before early 1943.

BW-393 got new clear bottom windows in the overhaul May 1942 and it was the last example released without the mention of matte light blue undersides. I take the "Painted according war plane painting instructions" note in the report to mean light grey undersides for the BW-393. Next time it was reported in June 14th, 1944 when transferrred to another squadron and then clear panes were partially replaced with metal sheets. Once again I would model BW-393 with full bottom windows and light grey undersides when flown by Luukkanen and also later when flown by Wind (at least for the year 1943).

So there is no hard and fast rule with this. There never seems to be when Finnish aircraft are in question.

Cheers,

Kari

Edited June 6, 2014 by Kari Lumppio

[Kari Lumppio]

Friends, when I read it here, so it needed a new model? Am I right?

Finally, each type of Bufalo separately and correctly. Of course, the HQT metal molds and for good money.

We think ...

Hello Peter!

If you really are serious with the Brewster please take advantage of the knowledge and primary sources here in Finland. I for one would gladly point you to the right direction and help where I can. I would boldly claim the best sources are here at the time being

Of course for the other than B-239 model ("read non-Finnish") Brewster details and such other stones have to be turned. Most of the basics are the same, though.

.

Cheers,

Kari

Edited June 6, 2014 by Kari Lumppio

[LDSModeller]

Hi Alan,

The aircraft flown by 71 Sqn were ex-Belgian B339Bs. They did have 3 on strength but were rapidly disposed of for the reasons identified elsewhere in the thread. The 3 B339Es (W8131-W8133) despatched to the UK only arrived in lateMarch/early April 1941 and were used exclusively for testing at A&AEE. W8131 was destroyed due to a mid-air fire in February 1942 while the remaining 2 aircraft became instructional airframes at RAF Cosford effective 20 June 1942.

Cheers,

Mark

Hi Mark,

Thanks for that, I had thought of the Belgian 339's but was too fixated on the Far East 339E's -blame it

on the hard week at work....

Mark has it right about the Brewster in Malaya/Singapore, there were far too few for the task. But also most of the pilots were completely inexperienced and stright out of flying school, and were up against vastly more experienced pilots flying somewhat better aircraft. Another point that is rarely mentioned is there was a distinct shortage of ground crews, most of whom were as poorly trained as the pilots.

One last point about the Brewater; the Dutch thought that their B-339Cs/Ds, at least with half-filled fuel tanks, was just as manoeuvrable as the Ki43 'Oscars' they encountered.

Certainly some aircrews were inexperienced - 488 Squadron had only arrived Oct-Nov 1941 - however they

had seasoned veterans from the Battle of Britain leading them - I think that counted for something.

As I pointed out in my previous post there were a number of 339E pilots who became "Ace" and others

who had 3 kills or more -

Geoff Fisken who made Ace, quickly learned to carry out the slash attack. He was flying Short Singapores before becoming a fighter pilot.

Poorly trained ground crew? Before or during the battle? Before, I may agree with you, when 488 Squadron inherited it's 20 odd 339E's from 67 Squadron, they were in a sorry state. It didn't tke long for the Squadron maintenance officer, and NCO's working with the other ground staff to get them ready for action - depends on your atitude I guess.

In the RAF Far East, there was something of a spirit of Lethargy flowing from the upper ranks down, up to and even during the battle.

Having said that, the fact that the ground crews kept aircraft repaired and flying speaks volumes in itself, what they could do, certainly during the battle.

Not sure where you are coming from about ground crew shortages, before or during the Battle?

Regards

Alan

Edited June 7, 2014 by LDSModeller

[Antoine]

While we're at it, any tips concerning PR buffaloes?

I did open a topic about this in the past, but can't find it...

Sorry for the hijack.

[LDSModeller]

While we're at it, any tips concerning PR buffaloes?

I did open a topic about this in the past, but can't find it...

Sorry for the hijack.

Hi Antoine

Is this the one your'e after?

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/52346-pr-buffalo/

Regards

alan

[Antoine]

Yes, thanks!

Hell, how did you do that?

My own search didn't took me farther than june 2013...

[LDSModeller]

Yes, thanks!

Hell, how did you do that?

My own search didn't took me farther than june 2013...

I used the the search term, RAF PR Brewster 339E Buffalo in Google, and it brought

up the topic.

looking for the term Britmodeller in the comments blurb helps locate it too, as I scroll down the page,

if you click on the link and scroll down to the 7th item you will see it.

https://www.google.co.nz/search?num=50&site=&source=hp&q=RAF+PR+Brewster+339E+Buffalo&oq=RAF+PR+Brewster+339E+Buffalo&gs_l=hp.12...6659.21925.0.24201.29.29.0.0.0.0.399.5652.2-17j3.20.0....0...1c.1.45.hp..23.6.1708.0.MVg5I2Bw-h8

Sometimes I find it easier for searching topics like this.

Regards

Alan

Edited June 7, 2014 by LDSModeller

[DaveCromie]

Friends, when I read it here, so it needed a new model? Am I right?

Finally, each type of Bufalo separately and correctly. Of course, the HQT metal molds and for good money.

We think ...

Stop teasing us Peter! Can we please have an accurate, easy to assemble Buffalo that even a half wit like me can build in the correct version that they want without haviing to kitbash or resort to aftermarket products? My (limited) research resources on the Buffalo left me dizzy with all of the different variants/sub-types so would love one of your HQT kits. Actually, no, I would like half a dozen or maybe even some Joy Packs!

DC

[Mr T]

To go back to the original question and comments about Buffalo kits, i am currently building the Special Hobby Buffalo 1 at present and I have got as far ashaving the airframe together. My personal observations are:

It looks the part and has good surface details that match what photos and plans I have. the resin is very nice, altough I personally dislike the propeller assembly method of injection moulded blades with a resin hub. One blade has already had to be reinforced with brass wire. The canopy is a clear injection moulded item with variations to cover most Buffalo variants and so some care needs to be taken to ensure you have the right bits. The fit appears reasonable but I have not actually got that far, just some trial fitting.

It has a very detailed and largely resin interior, altough no seat belts. The interior largely fits, but the intrument panel needed some work.

The wheel wells have a number of injection moulded struts to be added and the placement of these could, IMHO, been better illustrated in the instructions. My were tricky to fit.

The fuselage halves are fairly flexible and I glued them together in stages to try to get them to match up. Filler has been required in places.

The wings and tailplanes are basically butt joints. The tailplanes are not too bad, but the wings needed a bit of patience to get right and i am still not sure I have the dihedral right.

That about as far as i have got and I am ok with it so far. The painting instructions for the interior I have my doubts about after reading some the threads on here. This is not a beginners kit but doable if you have had some experince of short run and the way MPM/SH/Azurs minds work. I have used the 'In Action' (No 81), Profile Publication on the Buffalo (No 217 I think, it is not in front of me) and Air Enthuasist No1 from many years ago.

[mhaselden]

Yes, thanks!

Hell, how did you do that?

My own search didn't took me farther than june 2013...

Hi Antoine,

Apparently if you preface your search criteria in Google with "Britmodeller" it delivers pretty reliable results. For the specific example of the PR Buffalo, if you enter "Britmodeller PR Buffalo" in the Google search box, your original thread comes back at the top of the list (at least for me).

HTH.

Cheers,

Mark

[mhaselden]

That about as far as i have got and I am ok with it so far. The painting instructions for the interior I have my doubts about after reading some the threads on here. This is not a beginners kit but doable if you have had some experince of short run and the way MPM/SH/Azurs minds work. I have used the 'In Action' (No 81), Profile Publication on the Buffalo (No 217 I think, it is not in front of me) and Air Enthuasist No1 from many years ago.

Hi Martin,

Sounds like an excellent kit, albeit not "throw in the glue and shake the box". If you need any additional details on markings info for RAF Buffalos, please feel free to PM me - the Profile Pubs and Air Enthusiast articles are a little dated now.

Cheers,

Mark

[jimmaas]

"the Profile Pubs and Air Enthusiast articles are a little dated now"

....as is Squadron In Action # 81

Edited June 9, 2014 by jimmaas

[JohnMacG]

Coming back to my original question...... I really am on a budget, so the Hasegawa kit is NOT an option, and I'm not too sure about the SH kit either.

I've got a couple of Airfix Buffalos, so I think I'll try turning them into presenable models. A bit work on the nose, add cowls from an old Revell Buffalo (I found a couple in the spares box), busy up the cockpit, using the instructions from an Eduard etch-brass set I used on my Tamiya 1/48th Buffalo and add a 339B/E tailcone. Oh, and if I'm building an E, I'll have to find a replacement prop from the spares box as the Airfix kit only has the cuffed type.

One last thing; losing detail by sanding is not a problem - the Airfix rivetter had been hard at work on the Buffalo!

As to the comment about 488 finding their Buffs in a 'sorry state', yes I've read that too, but books by 67 Sqn personnel say that they left the Buffs behind in '1st-class order' (and many os 67's people were Kiwis too!).

I suppose it comes down to which book you read/believe!

[mhaselden]

"the Profile Pubs and Air Enthusiast articles are a little dated now"

....as is Squadron In Action # 81

I was giving you a bye, Jim.

[LDSModeller]

As to the comment about 488 finding their Buffs in a 'sorry state', yes I've read that too, but books by 67 Sqn personnel say that they left the Buffs behind in '1st-class order' (and many os 67's people were Kiwis too!).

I suppose it comes down to which book you read/believe!

One can also say that it depends on what you class as 1st class order?

488 Squadron being an Article XV Squadron had the benefit of having a Kiwi as their CO, who went to bat for them

when 488 needed to get things done.

Because 67 Squadeon had Kiwi's in it, doesn't mean they were in positions of authority, who perhaps could have

had a say over things, and what "Sorry state"means for one, can be different for another.

From former 488 squadrons member diaries, it appered that that other personell from RAF squadrons, who were

seconded to 488, really enjoyed being there, better food, treatment and professionalism etc.

Someones comments I know I can trust.

Quote from Air Vice Marshall PC Maltby AOC RAF in Java -after the fight for Singapore ended

I consider 488 Squadron as the squadron which has done the best job in Singapore

Kind regards

Alan

[LDSModeller]

To go back to the original question and comments about Buffalo kits, i am currently building the Special Hobby Buffalo 1

Martin,

What scale Special Hobby kit are you building (sounds suspiciously like the 1/32 version)?

Just some FY's for those building a Buffalo (and depending on how accurate you want your model)

Upper fuselage guns spent shell chute runs in front of the firewall and exits at the Port wing root

Wing _(Yes the leading edge is missing in this photo-snapped off....)

For RAF 339E's Gun camera in Starboard leading edge per photo

Flare Chute lower Starboard side rear fuselage - about where the leg of the guy in photo closest to fuselage

holding the tailplane

RAF Cockpit had rails for the seat to attach to, but also the ends were fixed to a cross bar on the roll over frame -

On the real thing -Round thing at right of seat upper is Undercart warning horn

Regards

Alan

Edited June 9, 2014 by LDSModeller

[Dave Fleming]

However, the Hasegawa already has the dual landing lights which only occurred with the British Buffalo (and a sure sign that Hasegawa intended a British Buffalo release at some point).

The parts break down also points to that - I wonder why they didn't progress (and if the moulds were actually cut)

[Mr T]

LDS Modeller, it is the 1/72nd scale version I am doing, I had completely forgotten about the big one and the work you have done on it looks pretty good. Mine has come to a complete halt as I the tooth I had extrated on Thursday is taking its revenge amd I am now pyrexic and just want to sleep.

mhaselden, thank you very much I will PM when I am capable of better quality thought processes. I have been using the Profile and AEQ etc. for details rather than colour schemes as from looking at posts here i am aware the colour info they give is very dated.

[Michael louey]

Hi Martin,

Regarding the SH kit, I haven't built the Buffalo but have completed the B339 kit and I expect most of the issues would be the same.

the worst problem was getting the fuselage to close after fitting the instrument panel plus combing. You are right about the vague instructions re the undercarriage struts. The clear parts are 'ok' but not quite matching.

Here's the completed kit:

http://z15.invisionfree.com/72nd_Aircraft/index.php?showtopic=2988&hl=

Cheers

Michael

[LDSModeller]

LDS Modeller, it is the 1/72nd scale version I am doing, I had completely forgotten about the big one and the work you have done on it looks pretty good. Mine has come to a complete halt as I the tooth I had extrated on Thursday is taking its revenge amd I am now pyrexic and just want to sleep.

mhaselden, thank you very much I will PM when I am capable of better quality thought processes. I have been using the Profile and AEQ etc. for details rather than colour schemes as from looking at posts here i am aware the colour info they give is very dated.

Hi Martin,

Hope you're feeling better soon.

Look forward to your build, when you get a chance to start again

Many many moon ago, It was the 1/72 Revell F2A Buffalo that won me, long before I knew about US versions or RAF

versions etc ( I was about 5 or 6).

My father had one in his stash and till this day remember this stubby little aircraft with Felix the cat on it's side.

http://payload11.cargocollective.com/1/4/143597/2537286/Revell_1_72_BREWSTER_BUFFALO_F2A_900.png

Of course all has changed now, I still have the Tamiya kit in my own collection from when that was the 'Cats Meow"

(with it's "interesting colour call outs), and now the bigger Special Hobby kit.

Brewster Buffalo - just gotta love em

Regards

Alan