Making an overall US Army Olive Drab scheme stand out - AH-64 Apache

[Tiger331]

I'm just about to start on the main paint job for a US Army AH-64D Apache. I'm worried the overall Olive Drab scheme will be a bit 'flat' although I will be doing some weathering afterwards to portray a well used machine.

I was thinking of doing some pre-shading with black (panel lines etc) and then spraying the overall Olive Drab scheme before picking out certain sections of the machine with either lighter or darker shades of the Olive Drab. Is this overdoing it ? or does anyone have any brighter ideas on how I can avoid presenting a fairly uniform (read uninteresting) overall US Helo Olive Drab scheme.

Any advice/help gratefully received.

Mark

[Nick Millman]

You could try mixing the OD yourself from primary colour acrylics to get a richer appearance. Most hobby paint ODs are full of filler, bland, greyish and undersaturated.

White, Burnt Umber (dark reddish brown), Chrome Yellow (or Orange) and Black.

Nick

[Julien]

A lot of the US ones I have seen have a very patchy appearance. You could use different shades to achieve this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/US_Navy_120127-N-PB383-090_A_U.S._Army_AH-64_Apache_helicopter_approaches_the_flight_deck_of_the_amphibious_transport_dock_ship_USS_New_Orleans_(LP.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cL93nLf2BII/TpvSU8x-8-I/AAAAAAAAC5M/NsYpZ6lKFW8/s1600/AH-64D+Apache+Longbow+with+Hellfire+missiles+%25282%2529.jpg

Julien

[daryl_five_zero]

If you look at most Apaches in service with any operator, there isn't really that much panel line definition at all. I think pre-shading on an Apache would look a little over exaggerated. You could try a light reverse panel-wash with a sandy colour to bring them out, with a little drybrushing to pop rivet detail, but again, go look at reference pics. The differences in colour and shade on the Apache mainly come from moisture from leaks etc. and weathering from dirt/sand. You could try some subtle post-shading too, perhaps, but I wouldn't go over the top.

Here's the last Apache I did. The only weathering I applied was oil/moisture staining using Tamiya Smoke, and a little moistened Weathering Master sand set to add wear to the more used panels - around the EFABS/Avionics/engine access panels.

I think less is more when it comes to weathering the Apache. Just follow references as to where the mucky bits occur. And if you choose to pre-shade, keep it subtle, and plan it with the panels you are choosing to pop.

[Tiger331]

If you look at most Apaches in service with any operator, there isn't really that much panel line definition at all. I think pre-shading on an Apache would look a little over exaggerated. You could try a light reverse panel-wash with a sandy colour to bring them out, with a little drybrushing to pop rivet detail, but again, go look at reference pics. The differences in colour and shade on the Apache mainly come from moisture from leaks etc. and weathering from dirt/sand. You could try some subtle post-shading too, perhaps, but I wouldn't go over the top.

Here's the last Apache I did. The only weathering I applied was oil/moisture staining using Tamiya Smoke, and a little moistened Weathering Master sand set to add wear to the more used panels - around the EFABS/Avionics/engine access panels.

I think less is more when it comes to weathering the Apache. Just follow references as to where the mucky bits occur. And if you choose to pre-shade, keep it subtle, and plan it with the panels you are choosing to pop.

Guys,

Thanks for all the responses……I must admit, I was thinking pre-shading etc may be a bit OTT and that plain ol' weathering after the main color could be the way to go….I think I will go with this last option and do some weathering and also use a few of the Tamiya powders. Did you spray on the Tamiya Smoke or is is dry brushed on the AAC Apache ?

[daryl_five_zero]

Guys,

Thanks for all the responses……I must admit, I was thinking pre-shading etc may be a bit OTT and that plain ol' weathering after the main color could be the way to go….I think I will go with this last option and do some weathering and also use a few of the Tamiya powders. Did you spray on the Tamiya Smoke or is is dry brushed on the AAC Apache ?

The Tamiya Smoke was really thinned down and airbrushed over the final Matt coat, so the gloss would come through. I'd caution you about just using the Tamiya powders straight on with the brush, though. It's really easy to just smother it in sand, and it just ends up looking dusty and wrong. Have a look at the Apache walkaround on here, and look at all the places the sand accumulates. Definitely be selective about where you're sticking it!

But don't be put off pre-shading either. If done sparingly I'm sure it could really add to the realism of your build!

[Julien]

Depending on the environment its been used in then the panel lines rivets do stand out. A look at some returning from Afghanistan etc you get dust in these areas which does seem to hightlight them.

more in our UK AH-1 walkaround section: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/72723-agustawestland-ah-1-apache/

[georgeusa]

I don't mean to be a downer, but sometimes I wonder when someone wants to avoid having their kit look bland or the camo scheme is uninteresting. Most quartermasters I've ever met would love it if the machinery they were in charge of would be indistinguishable from the one next to it and none of them stand out. Most military schemes for everyday use are designed not to stand out, not to vary, and to be bland and the same. It is the nature of the beast. The odd thing in the military is ndividualism isn't encouraged or supported, until that one individual, in the heat of battle, steps out and does more than is ever expected of them. At the time, they usually don't realize they have done so, and afterwards, they never admit they did anything extraordinary. We call these individuals heros; and it is the only time the military honors an individual for stepping out of the ranks and doing things in a different manner than the rest of the crowd.

[Tiger331]

I don't mean to be a downer, but sometimes I wonder when someone wants to avoid having their kit look bland or the camo scheme is uninteresting. Most quartermasters I've ever met would love it if the machinery they were in charge of would be indistinguishable from the one next to it and none of them stand out. Most military schemes for everyday use are designed not to stand out, not to vary, and to be bland and the same. It is the nature of the beast. The odd thing in the military is ndividualism isn't encouraged or supported, until that one individual, in the heat of battle, steps out and does more than is ever expected of them. At the time, they usually don't realize they have done so, and afterwards, they never admit they did anything extraordinary. We call these individuals heros; and it is the only time the military honors an individual for stepping out of the ranks and doing things in a different manner than the rest of the crowd.

As an individual who served in the military for over 30 years, Im very au fait with the need for camouflage schemes and blending in with the environment. I think you may have misinterpreted what I said......I am always afraid, with overall black and drak green colour schemes on aircraft that they just become a 'lump of green or black'.....Im not looking to dress up a rather dull scheme but merely want to make sure it stands out.....Ive seen some potentially dull and boring colour schemes on models really stand out because the modeller has managed, through shading and weathering of the original scheme to make them so....

[rmcclure]

I'm with you, Tiger. Whilst the military wants their kit to blend in and not be seen, as model makers the aims we have for our output are pretty much the opposite. Simulation instead of replication, and all that.

Cheers,

Roger

[Giorgio N]

Preshading could work but I'd not go for the simple use of preshading on the panel lines. Havea look at what a fellow Britmodeller has done on a Tomcat in the current STGB

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234958254-172-f-14a-nsawc-in-2002-hobbyboss-kit/page-2

Here the preshading is used to add different tones that will then affect the final top coat. It is IMHO very effective.

I'm not familiar with UK Apaches, but the US Army ones I've seen tend to be quite weathered with many areas appearing a lot lighter than the original colour. If I had to paint one, I'd probably start with a lightened and "chalked" version of the colour and then add thin coats of the pure one to build up the tone where the paint is not weathered.

[Greg B]

Pre shading doesn't work out well because of the dark nature of the original colour. I have built it and used the original paint as a base then filled in gaps with various lighter shades in a random manner. Some variation of the shades was done by adding reds and yellows (not much though) and grey's to tone it down as White was too stark or ended up pastel like.

When it was done a light dusting of the original colour brought it together, followed by the normal exhaust staining etc.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/45762-hasegawa-148-ah-64a-apache/?hl=apache

[Murph]

Modern U.S. Army helos are painted in a color referred to as CARC Aircraft Green. The CARC stands for Chemical Agent Resistant Coating, and the FS match is 34031. LINK

Regards,

Murph

Edited June 4, 2014 by Murph

[Tiger331]

Pre shading doesn't work out well because of the dark nature of the original colour. I have built it and used the original paint as a base then filled in gaps with various lighter shades in a random manner. Some variation of the shades was done by adding reds and yellows (not much though) and grey's to tone it down as White was too stark or ended up pastel like.

When it was done a light dusting of the original colour brought it together, followed by the normal exhaust staining etc.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/45762-hasegawa-148-ah-64a-apache/?hl=apache

Thanks for this…….just what I was looking for

[georgeusa]

Tiger,

I know this sounds strange, but when weathering Vietnam and up helos, I try a very light overall dry brushing of Testor's metallic silver over the surface. It tends to dull things down overall, while highlighting details. This is on a 1/24 Revell Huey. See if it works for you.

[Tiger331]

Guys,

Just to say thanks to all of you for your contributions and in particular your help in making sure I avoided a rather drab looking single color application to the Apache. I have, this afternoon, handed it over to its new owner during his retirement ceremony having put the finishing touches to it at 9 o'clock this morning !. In the end I went for a mixture of applications. After the base coat of US Army Help green, I highlighted certain other areas in a slightly darker shade. I misted on sooty black (not too much) for the exhaust stains over the rear boom and tail pylon and used small amounts of Tamiya weathering Sand, Light Sand and Oil Stain in those areas that take fair wear and tear. I took your advice and did not go overboard with this since I was portraying an Apache operating out of Fort Hood, Texas and not one that had been exposed to the extreme elements of Afghanistan. Once I work out how to put photos on this website, i'll try and post some of the completed model before it was handed over.

Thanks again for your help and support

Mark