30 Squadron Blenheim Mk.IF in Greece

[Test Graham]

There was a topic, here or perhaps elsewhere, on the appearance of 30 Sq Blenheims in the Middle East early or pre-WW2. I've looked in the usual suspects, but have been unable to find it. So here's what I've to say, in the hope that the right person is reading it!

Brian Cull's new book "Blenheims Over Greece and Crete" has three photos of VT.G K7095. This is in fighter fit - 30 Sq operated both with the respective numbers fluctuating as the unit's role changed from bomber to local defence. I interpret the photo as showing a faded Temperate Land Scheme but that's without checking the position of the darkest colour in the pattern - a job for this afternoon, perhaps?

There are a number of other photos of RAF, Greek and Yugoslav Blenheims. The book follows the usual pattern of a chronological account of missions with personal anecdotes where available. As good as ever.

[Nick Millman]

I think it might be this one?

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234933625-blenheims-east-o-suez-seeking-information/

Thanks for mentioning the book. Was not aware of it.

Nick

[Mark Mackenzie]

On 5/30/2014 at 7:31 PM, Graham Boak said:

There was a topic, here or perhaps elsewhere, on the appearance of 30 Sq Blenheims in the Middle East early or pre-WW2. I've looked in the usual suspects, but have been unable to find it. So here's what I've to say, in the hope that the right person is reading it!

Brian Cull's new book "Blenheims Over Greece and Crete" has three photos of VT.G K7095. This is in fighter fit - 30 Sq operated both with the respective numbers fluctuating as the unit's role changed from bomber to local defence. I interpret the photo as showing a faded Temperate Land Scheme but that's without checking the position of the darkest colour in the pattern - a job for this afternoon, perhaps?

There are a number of other photos of RAF, Greek and Yugoslav Blenheims. The book follows the usual pattern of a chronological account of missions with personal anecdotes where available. As good as ever.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Mark Mackenzie

[Test Graham]

This is one of the photos in the book. I think the T is just lost against the camouflage colour rather than being over-painted. There is a high contrast between the upper-surface colours in two of the views of VT.G - counting this as one of those - but in the other two which are both close-ups there's much less contrast. (Yes, I have found a fourth photo of this aircraft.)

However, the darker colour is "exchanged" in views of at least one, possibly two or more other photos of Blenheims. This could imply a repaint on K7095 (Mid Stone over the Dark Green) but the low contrast picture casts severe doubt on this. This kind of exchange is also seen on Greek Blenheims, so it may have been a feature of Blenheim production - I haven't looked at enough Blenheims to have any opinion. It's also a little early for the Desert Scheme, which is dated as being from August 1941 in Shores' new Vol. 1 on the Desert War with its appearance on Tomahawks - though I think (pretty sure) some Hurricanes predate that. Not in this book is the photo of 211 Sq Blenheim wreck in Greece which is normally interpreted as being in the Desert scheme.

For the collector of odd camouflage pictures. there's an FAA Swordfish with very high contrast upper-surface colours. The very dark ring around the roundel (yellow) suggests this is another example of the extreme effect of ortho film (and a certain filter?) on the Temperate Sea Scheme, as noted elsewhere on the famous Skua/Ark Royal photo and the less well-publicised view of Faith in its final days.

[Old Man]

That would be my enquiry, Sir, which Mr. Millman linked to.

The build is getting pretty near to done, and I expect I will finish it as in the plain 'factory finish' for No. 30 in '38.

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234934914-blenheim-mk-i-frog-172/page-4

[Mark Mackenzie]

On 5/31/2014 at 7:31 AM, Graham Boak said:

This is one of the photos in the book. I think the T is just lost against the camouflage colour rather than being over-painted. There is a high contrast between the upper-surface colours in two of the views of VT.G - counting this as one of those - but in the other two which are both close-ups there's much less contrast. (Yes, I have found a fourth photo of this aircraft.)

However, the darker colour is "exchanged" in views of at least one, possibly two or more other photos of Blenheims. This could imply a repaint on K7095 (Mid Stone over the Dark Green) but the low contrast picture casts severe doubt on this. This kind of exchange is also seen on Greek Blenheims, so it may have been a feature of Blenheim production - I haven't looked at enough Blenheims to have any opinion. It's also a little early for the Desert Scheme, which is dated as being from August 1941 in Shores' new Vol. 1 on the Desert War with its appearance on Tomahawks - though I think (pretty sure) some Hurricanes predate that. Not in this book is the photo of 211 Sq Blenheim wreck in Greece which is normally interpreted as being in the Desert scheme.

For the collector of odd camouflage pictures. there's an FAA Swordfish with very high contrast upper-surface colours. The very dark ring around the roundel (yellow) suggests this is another example of the extreme effect of ortho film (and a certain filter?) on the Temperate Sea Scheme, as noted elsewhere on the famous Skua/Ark Royal photo and the less well-publicised view of Faith in its final days.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Mark Mackenzie

[chaddy]

I've little to add to this except for the following. My father served in the ME and Greece in in 1940-41 and he kept a scrapbook/sketchbook. One of the sketches was of a Blenheim Mk1in Greece. He has depicted this in dark green/dark earth. The colour rendition will not be accurate, for obvious reasons, but shows what he actually saw at that time. Unfortunately I don't think he went as far as to record squadron codes or serial number...

[Test Graham]

Mark: Or is it just very faded Dark Earth? As for the dates, the AM may have described this in December 1940 but there is absolutely no doubt that aircraft kept arriving in the ME for some six months in TLS. It is worth remembering that the ME command covered a much wider area than the Western Desert, although obviously that's what we tend to concentrate on. Palestine and the arc of the "Fertile Crescent" are greener. Malta didn't like the Desert Scheme either.

Chaddy: The majority of the photos in the book are perfectly convincing as TLS. As indeed are the two close-ups of VT.G. There are just a few examples that strongly suggest otherwise, and heavily faded TLS remains an option, if to be considered carefully rather than too vigorously.

A check on just how standardised the Blenheim patterns were could influence our thinking, but there's always the odd one out (at least) as far as the colour allocations are concerned. I'm re-reading Shores' Vol 1 at the moment, and the Blenheims do seem to be all in TLS before August 1941 or thereabouts, but I must admit I wasn't checking too carefully.

[Mark Mackenzie]

On 5/31/2014 at 5:13 PM, chaddy said:

I've little to add to this except for the following. My father served in the ME and Greece in in 1940-41 and he kept a scrapbook/sketchbook. One of the sketches was of a Blenheim Mk1in Greece. He has depicted this in dark green/dark earth. The colour rendition will not be accurate, for obvious reasons, but shows what he actually saw at that time. Unfortunately I don't think he went as far as to record squadron codes or serial number...

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Mark Mackenzie

[chaddy]

I'm afraid he didn't Mark. Judging by most of the cartoons/sketches he, and others he was with made, they were otherwise engaged.

[Test Graham]

I'm not asking who wanted the scheme - it seems clear that both did, at least for the Western Desert. The point I was raising was that it was some time between the ruling being made by the AM and scheme being "fully" adopted in the field. Some Hurricanes and Blenheims do appear in the scheme early but others clearly don't. There doesn't seem to have been any "change now!" ruling to squadrons in the front line, nor any consistent campaign to repaint examples in MUs (or ASPs?) - which may have been partially a matter of the shortage of aircraft not allowing the necessary time. The sheer time taken to ship aircraft to West Africa was obviously an influence, particularly on the Tomahawks which also were delayed by engine problems.

Nick's query as to why they didn't just use Light Earth is perhaps most relevant in this interim period.