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Codger

A BIG Rolls Royce

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59 minutes ago, Codger said:

STOP- not deserved and my keyboard is blushing....:wub:

 

Nope.....It's thoroughly deserved.  :mellow:

 

Absolutely magnificent work Mr.C, every aspect of your model has a casual elegance that speaks quiet volumes about the skill and effort involved in building it.  Love the poise, love the paintwork, love the little details.....Genuinely a masterpiece.  :worthy:

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

 

Nope.....It's thoroughly deserved.  :mellow:

 

Absolutely magnificent work Mr.C, every aspect of your model has a casual elegance that speaks quiet volumes about the skill and effort involved in building it.  Love the poise, love the paintwork, love the little details.....Genuinely a masterpiece.

 

 

Knock it off guys, it's just a toy car. I'll get a swelled head which there's no room for in this tiny phone booth I build in...:fraidnot:

Sincere thanks all- it's great incentive..:worthy:

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I agree with all the praise offered up so far and would add one thing. You have nerves of steel and a surgeon's hands my friend.  Getting all those pretty, shiny bits to fit together for the final time is no small feat. It seems like it should take 5 min to hang the door and running boards when it is Really days of sweat and bated breathe! You are producing art!

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Warts and all...

A personal observation; no Pocher classic will ever be mistaken for a Gerald Wingrove masterpiece. With all due respect to those master professionals who build them, I have learned that no matter how thorough you attempt to be (even building straight out of box), the Pocher Gods seldom smile completely upon you. Here follows a long-winded but hopefully useful explanation.

 

I've reached the stage where a true bolt-together assembly of the major structure takes place in preparation for final assembly. No pinned-in place, taped-on trial fits. That's past now and what you see now is what it will be forever, like or not. Only doo-dads and sparkly stuff gets added. This is the place that the Pocher Gods can make you cry - no matter how hard you tried to outsmart them.

 

After what I thought was two + years worth of  microscopic examination and measuring I've learned that you can get to this late stage and get a rude shock. Like a supermodel with a pimple on her nose. To help any others who have found reason to follow my journey (and emulate on their own projects) I feel bound to impart this type of knowledge.

 

In the first year of construction, I discovered that the rear fenders bore little resemblance to each other. Careful fiddling corrected the problem. Warps in the body and mis-locations of crossmembers and other major points of the structure were detected and rectified.The chassis got strengthened and straightened.  Sure - I knew you can't trust the long-gone Pocher guys, mold makers, and four-decades- old plastic in storage.

 

But the thing I was completely blind to was the sweeping front fenders. Why did I lavish time on their finish, completely trusting that Pocher got those even and symmetrical?

 

Well, here now in perfect paint and ready for prime-time they are   -  and they're not the same. This simple shot with bad graphics reveals the problem easily. The fender marked 'left' is fuller, has a fractionally higher arch and different side fender line than its mate. By .062". Just as simple as the one mold made differently than the other. No CNC in the '70's (this is the first boxing of the Sedanca kit).

942M_zpsrlsj8c5c.jpg

To compound the pain, the passenger side fender is molded with a warp on its bottom edge, the part that contacts the chassis and needs to sit flush on it. Shown by the arrows, the front and rear edges do contact the chassis but the central portion has a gap. This means overall that the gap to the top of the tire is closer on this side than the other. It's a shallower fender:

942M_zpsdav0tnhh.jpg

This is actually the ride height I prefer and designed for but the other (driver) side is .062 higher:

943M_zpsyjhygtqj.jpg

Well the pros tell me you can't see both sides at once but that's no consolation for me. And by inference this happens more often than not. I've obviously got a lot to learn or have to settle for my lower skill levels. Sure, I could shim the fender up .062 and the tire gaps would be even. But that leaves an unsightly raised edge on the chassis rail. So the moral is to be prepared that you can only go so far no matter how diligent you try to be. Doing it over again, I know to make the door gaps .003 wider than the .018 I recommended to several who've asked about it. And check every damn plastic part in the box for fit and symmetry.

 

Having said ALL of that (Lord I do go on...) here is the 75% version of the finished product. Some photos in flash, some natural light, the body attaching studs need trimming and a light manicure and wipe-down needed. Light plays tricks with the angles of the body panels. All new interior wood has been fashioned, fits improved and the door panels permanently affixed to the door skins. Major things to be added: the running boards, the four hood panels (a huge project themselves because the body is moved aft and they need to be longer and widened at the rear) and the rear fenders (will be another huge visual impact on the streamlining idea). Minor things are the second chromed windscreen frame and its glass, the spotlight, steering wheel levers, headlights (beautiful large MMC chromed bronze castings), smaller hinge pins, license plate and taillights, interior mirror and that beautiful lady that floats over the radiator cap. She'll be the last to arrive.

 

A final thought; in the flesh, this thing blows me away. The colors, textures and chrome conspire to lift it beyond my wildest dream. That would be true of any nicely built Pocher, no matter my criticisms. Love or hate it, it has presence. And character. I say that out of amazement, not pride. Many of you criticize me for 'modesty' so I'm even embarrassed to blurt this out.  Flaws and all, I am thrilled that I can see it every day here. Smaller models may be jewels or precise miniatures but they don't pull you by the lapels from the other side of the room. This has not been a contest. Just a personal exercise to see how close I could get to a vision. Judge for yourselves:

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That gap under the offside fender seen clearly from this angle. Oh well...

950M_zpsczksssbz.jpg

951M_zpsxg9wkism.jpg

952M_zpsftn6jqzv.jpg

 

Edited by Codger

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Even with a few things that won't meet your standards, It's still perfect.

 

Think about the fact that you are making a one-off by hand and, in retrospect would change a dimension by 0.003". That's incredible.

 

Were the original hand built custom bodies on Rolls Royce and other luxury vehicles built in the 1930's (or the 50's and 60's) perfectly symmetrical?  Hand built is synonymous with asymmetry and small imperfections.  Ask anyone who has rigorously restored a custom made body.

 

Some believe that the perfect crowd stopping beauty of some hand made bodies is due to a small level of asymmetry.

 

Has anyone taken a micrometer to Gerald Wingroves' models?  If they discovered a small asymmetry would that make them less perfect?

 

If the two sides are just a bit different, the tiny group of people who can see the level of variance you are concerned with can chose the side they like better.

 

The best paragraph in your post begins with "A final thought..." .  I agree.

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13 hours ago, Endeavor said:

Were the original hand built custom bodies on Rolls Royce and other luxury vehicles built in the 1930's (or the 50's and 60's) perfectly symmetrical?  Hand built is synonymous with asymmetry and small imperfections.  Ask anyone who has rigorously restored a custom made body.

 

Some believe that the perfect crowd stopping beauty of some hand made bodies is due to a small level of asymmetry.

David, I had given much thought for a long period, to this point you eloquently raise . Indeed I am very familiar with the concept from  Cobra lore that AC ally bodies were pounded by hand by drunk workers under a tree at Thames Ditton. Synonymous with asymmetry.

 

So I am either coming to embrace this concept or others may say, accepting my own mediocrity.

 

But I take this as high praise from the man who single-handedly has depleted the world's supply of Milliput in pursuit of perfection in Alfa Romeos. Your standards obviously surpass mine in every way. And you are succeeding.

 

Thanks for the encouragement. :worthy:

 

 

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Chas, if YOU are mediocre, then.....i'm afraid WE (I) are nothing because there's no word anymore !

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Right Mr C....enough of this 'mediocre' BS.....you are one of the most respected builders on this forum.....and rightly so....please accept what we think of you....and not what you think of yourself....as being the truth.

 

Highest regards

 

Ron

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1 hour ago, silver911 said:

Right Mr C....enough of this 'mediocre' BS.....you are one of the most respected builders on this forum.....and rightly so....please accept what we think of you....and not what you think of yourself....as being the truth.

 

Highest regards

 

Ron

OK, OK - I'm going out to get a press agent, publicist and entourage because I'm starting to believe you guys.

 

No wait ---- that will never happen...:suicide:

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Absolutely gorgeous Mr C, the work of a true model artist! (ducking for cover)...

 Your modeller "status" is not decided by your good self by the way....if we say you're up there with the experts, that really is where you are!

 Modesty is fine (it is, after all, one of my many good points!) (I've been waiting years to use that line!), but sometimes the truth just needs to be accepted graciously. 

 You have set the bar VERY high indeed!

 

Ian

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Let's see if I can say correctly what I'm thinking...

 

There are currently a group of Pocher classic builders at work on their projects on the site. They include (using their screen names even though we may know them less formally):

Endeavor

WKennerly

RJFK

Larchiefeng

Roymattblack - Pocher and Scratchbuilder (Who sadly seems to have stepped away a bit)

Pouln

Mpfiend

CrazyCrank

Apologies if I've overlooked anyone but my memory is departing as fast as my follicles.

To have my name mentioned in the same group as those guys is a huge honor for me. They are all superb Pocher builders. I am seriously happy to be considered a member of that group.

Then there is a group of large scale non-Pocher builders (Largely the Fiat and 806 builders) who drop in and share a word or two in my thread or by PM. Also superb builders all, who always give me input, advice and inspiration.

Finally there are skilled members from all walks of model building like smaller autos, aircraft and military who are all very gracious, even though they may have no great affection for Pochers.

Indeed, I have a hard time with the accolades because I so admire the work of those others. Sharing ideas and learning from them has been a wonderful trip for me.

So please friends, continue to discuss, despise or admire my car - I want this thread to be about it, not me. Your flattery has been very humbling but those others easily deserve the term 'Master' more than I.

C

 

 

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I thought that it was just me and my Mercedes that had these final fit issues. I think that this is why I've delayed the total final assembly because I was somewhat disappointed with the way it was coming together in places. I already feel better and I know that no matter what I think it's probably going to be better than most of the unpainted or uncorrected versions of the same car. So, in the end I will just have to accept the imperfections and move on with the hope that the next one will be better because of all that I learned while building it. 

The other thing that I have gained over the past two years is a lot of great new friends! Thanks Mr. C! The Roller is looking great and 99.9% of people who see and admire your work will never see the issues that you see; we're our own harshest critics!

w

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So, about that fender.....I've studied the photos in some detail and, apart from the ones where the issue is pointed out, you just don't notice it, the rest of the model literally overwhelms the problem.  :coolio:

 

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17 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

So, about that fender.....I've studied the photos in some detail and, apart from the ones where the issue is pointed out, you just don't notice it, the rest of the model literally overwhelms the problem.  :coolio:

 

Thank you Sgt. Your words now explain what I meant in past blather where I wrote '...I just fell in love with the damned thing.'

When you're in love, you can just accept or overlook any flaws in that which or whom you're in love with.

Guilty as charged !! :bobby:

Edited by Codger

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Codger, I really feel sorry for the fact that you found this slight imperfection at this time, but... this does in no way decrease the appreciation I (and many other here) have for what you have created. There aren't many others here that show the same dedication and perseverance in building.

This really is a superb model. I love it and apparently you do too.

 

Anyway, maybe you need to build another one, a new opportunity to see if you can build one without any imperfections.

I sure would welcome that.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Pouln said:

Anyway, maybe you need to build another one, a new opportunity to see if you can build one without any imperfections.

I sure would welcome that.

Many thanks Poul.

Always being a 'glass half empty' guy, I do not see another Pocher in my future or probably any other model. The health difficulties are making this an onerous (but loving) task of late, especially the hampered vision.

I often ponder what I would do differently on another Sedanca (just love the shape and concept) other than build an exact Gurney Nutting replica with all the 'correct' factory period cues - and low roof. It may look elegant but very staid in comparison to my circus car. It takes real discipline to do what Cox and Meit do.

The task at hand is for me to finish what I started - because no one else will...:rolleyes:

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A little 'fun' for the New Year...

As relief from the heavy lifting of fitting major pieces, I put down the hammer and tongs for a little light, 'eyewash', instant gratification work. To wit, the steering wheel and engine control levers. These control ignition advance, governor and carburetion mixture.

The easy start was to polish the wheel with various grits to yield the bakelite-type plastic look of the original. Pocher molds the control bezel fairly well in black plastic but the lettering for the functions is raised rather than etched and white-filled as the originals. Sort of like the aircraft guys deal with raised panel lines vs. etched. Oh well, plenty of other 'inaccuracies' on the car but it makes for a little visual interest. The letters may also be a hair overscale and you can easily read the functions in place in the car..

Pocher gives you horrid stamped, plated, pointy steel for the control levers. That could be improved on. So a little brass bending and soldering yielded prototypical rod levers:

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Here is the original; a P II but with the factory option, 'spring steel' steering wheel, as opposed to all bakelite wheel on the model. Very business-like:

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So this is where it wound-up, acceptable for relatively little work. I will immediately point out that Cox routinely makes these WORKING controls (with levers and links going down a fabricated steering column) to the main ignition and carburetor, so I'm taking the beggar's way out with a little visual fakery...

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958M_zpsxwfyfrol.jpg

 

Edited by Codger

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Love the brass work. The lettering is impressive too. It is raised and not recesses you say? How did you paint it? If it were recesses you could brush white paint and wipe it off until the recesses are filled but raised seems trickier. 

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Many thanks and best wishes to you all too. We all need good health in the coming year.

 

Rich, I applied acrylic white with the side of  pin - slowly- and washed away with Windex if it got messed. When I got the right amount, I went over it with Smoke and clear yellow to tone it down for scale. The last picture shows that result. You can still clearly read it though.

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Looking real good, Chas.

The wheel itself has a nice real life shade and surface too.

Edited by Pouln

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Dear Codger, 

 

With all due respect, i think you see the glass exactly as it is and this has been one of your strengths all along. 

Therefore am sure you will finish this beauty "pulling you (us) from your lapels to the other side the room (laptop screen)" and soon attack a new one... 

 

Need not reminding you who said  "I’ve always been asked, ’What is my favorite car?’ and I’ve always said ’The next one." ;) and also said other wise things i shall not quote here... you are well placed to know this giant of a man. 

 

You have taken YOUR Sedenca to original and beautiful heights, which to me is much nicer than a Gurney Nutting replica from Cox and Meit.. beautiful yes and mastery of technique, yes, but not original.

 

Health, health and more health to you in 2017 and also more joy in building new original cars... 

 

:work:B):pirate::king:

 
 

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