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Codger

A BIG Rolls Royce

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Personally, I don't see why anyone would want to be negative about this, just because they don't want to do it. The work you're doing is fantastic, and a great example of what can be achieved with any kit, with a little effort. Keep it up!

I have no intention of ever building a Pocher, but the process is the same for any kit to make it accurate....research, and trial and error! As for interest, this isn't about having people telling you your work is impressive, it's just about sharing your hobby! I've posted my Bentley post on ScaleMotorCars forum and only had one reply! If they want to ignore it, so be it, but maybe someone will find my thread in the future and find it helpful....

Ian

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Well said Ian.

And thanks for your support.

Oh and I didn't realize you're a Yank too- we're about 200 miles apart!

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Personally, I don't see why anyone would want to be negative about this, just because they don't want to do it. The work you're doing is fantastic, and a great example of what can be achieved with any kit, with a little effort. Keep it up!

I have no intention of ever building a Pocher, but the process is the same for any kit to make it accurate....research, and trial and error! As for interest, this isn't about having people telling you your work is impressive, it's just about sharing your hobby! I've posted my Bentley post on ScaleMotorCars forum and only had one reply! If they want to ignore it, so be it, but maybe someone will find my thread in the future and find it helpful....

Ian

Hi Ian,

Yes I am being negative, about Pocher kits and this forum, but I would just like to explain my reasons if I may. Firstly, I am not in any way saying that what Codger is doing is a waste of time, I have nothing but admiration for his skills and patience, his build is truly a work of art. What I am getting at however are the kits themselves, this Rolls Royce is being sold online at £750! (although someone managed to win one on e-bay yesterday for £253!!) and the extras that you have to purchase to finish it could possibly push that price to £1000. Now, to me that is one heck of a lot of money to pay for a kit, and I would expect it to go together a darn sight easier than what it does, the constant adjustments on nearly every part are unbelievable, and that is to get a reasonable build out of it, and areas like the interior are just a complete disaster, and require building virtually from scratch. This is not something that I would expect from a kit that I would pay £750 for!! I was 'lucky'! getting mine for £300, and I admit that I enjoyed a lot of the first half of the build, but now I am nearing the end of it, I cannot wait to get it finished and forgotten about, and get on to some form of 'normal' modelling. It is not an experience that I would like to go through again, that is for sure.

As for the forum. All I am saying is that people go through a lot of time and effort to post these builds, and if you do not get many views and comments, then it does not seem worth all that effort, at least in my eye's anyway. Perhap's I am seeing thing's the wrong way, who knows.

Anyway, I apologise for any offence or animosity that my post may have caused, and I wish you and Codger the very best regards.

Larry.

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Some pertinent comments from Larry - (Foxfriend) regarding the lack of activity on the vehicles forum.

I totally agree it isn't about getting pats on the back etc - it's about showing people how you do things, and hopefully getting a bit of chat going.

I have also been a bit surprised at the seeming lack of interest in the 'Big stuff'.

Lots of views but very few comments. Maybe the big cars don't fit in with the majority of builders here, in the same way that I have zero interest in wingy things, tanks, or stuff that floats.

Each to his own.

I love the challenge of the big stuff and the fun of 'making' your own bits and finding solutions to the problems.

Keep it all going. I'm still here and very much interested.

Roy.

Edited by roymattblack

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From my view, as i have been following (but probably not commenting enough) this build from a very early stage and as with alot of roys builds i am staggered into how much work you have put in and how well it is turning out, i mean that engine is a work of art, but for me i most probably won't get the chance to even come close to owning one of these kits for at least another 18 years (kids) so just to watch is good for me for now and I totally agree with how the forums are, if you only come here to get told how good you are or for the amount of comments you get then your are most probably here for the wrong reasons as since i have been a member my understanding of how to better myself has improved so much and the standard of the finish i can now archive is now so far from what i used to do before and it's all down to alot of the other members giving tips and tricks through there builds

Honestly as far as I'm concerned i will be watching this until the end in awe and hopefully one day in the distant future i can come back to these build threads of roys and yours to nick the ideas and get something somewhere near to you guys standard

Shaun

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No offence taken, or implied Larry, I can fully understand your reasons. Being a WWI aircraft modeller (and 1:72 scale at that) I do find it a little surprising at the (relative) lack of replies, but that's seems to be the case on all 3 forums I've posted my Bentley build - the reason for posting on 3 was to try to get more feedback and tips, as I'm not familiar with large scale car building! This is actually the most active of those forums!

The bottom line is, this is a hobby, and therefore should be fun. If you don't enjoy building a particular brand or subject there should be no pressure to do so. Whatever you choose I'm sure you'll do it justice!

Best regards,

Ian

PS @Codger - I'm actually a "damn limey" - I came and stayed, ("limeys" come then go home again!). Originally from just outside London.

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Well we finally got some discussion going; but sadly at the cost of losing a valued contributor. And good internet friend.

Larry, you did excellent work on your Rolls and you are a scratchbuilder and interior specialist of the first rank. I appreciate your generosity in sharing with me your materials and methods for a fabulous interior. I know I can not execute it near as well as you did. I said all along; I'm here to learn, not preach and that's why I seek dialog so fervently.

Make no mistake, I was not holding a gun to your head to stay here; your skills are just as evident in the other passions you have such as aircraft. Only my zeal to have your input had me hounding you for more.

You are certainly correct about the economics involved with big and difficult subjects. I know I have spent crazy money. Only my kit was a lucky buy. Materials and tool costs alone are something I'd like to forget.

But I am driven with this. And should know better than to drive others. My sincere hope is that you will stop in and post-give me perspective on what I do. The negative is far more valuable and constructive than the positive. I will continue to hope and look for your presence in my thread.

Roy and Shaun make excellent points as well. The sharing of methods and materials is the real value of a project of this scope. Roy has been a generous and skillful supplier of those facets and Shaun has apparently been a diligent beneficiary of them. Roy's work is an inspiration to every modeler to have something that good on one's shelf. That to me is the reason to continue.

Ian may have hit the nail from my perspective; " ...to try to get more feedback and tips...". That type of participation from the viewers is exactly what I've sought.

Well yes, I will continue with my plastic soap opera. It gives me a smile every morning when I uncover it and ponder the next frown it will give me. But I keep the vision of what I want it to be, displayed in that glass case, driving me.

I hope you all enjoy your model builds of any size and type as much as that.

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A few random (mainly Pocher) thoughts:

Have I been put off Pochers by looking at the fantastic builds by people on this forum (you know who you are)

who have far more skill, patience, knowledge and dedication than I will ever have ? ...................................NO.

Would I post pictures of my future 'efforts'?..... I'm not sure. Why would people want to see something so out of the box ordinary compared to the above?

As far as responses to people's build posts - I feel that I've not too much to contribute other than friendly banter

and such terms as 'Wow', 'Awesome' 'Fantastic' etc., but after a while that just sounds so sycophantic

even though it's totally genuinely meant.

Do Pochers represent a sensible financial outlay? ..................................................................... Definitely NOT.

But they can be acquired inexpensively if you are prepared to buy them ready built and then de-construct them.

I recently saw an Alfa plus a Fiat go for £200 for the pair, and I've just paid about £1000 less for my Bugatti Surprofile than some of the kit asking prices that I've seen.

Finally ........... I'm a sucker for BIG models :D

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A few random (mainly Pocher) thoughts:

Have I been put off Pochers by looking at the fantastic builds by people on this forum (you know who you are)

who have far more skill, patience, knowledge and dedication than I will ever have ? ...................................NO. GOOD.

Would I post pictures of my future 'efforts'?..... I'm not sure. Why would people want to see something so out of the box ordinary compared to the above? Please do. Because interesting subjects well-built are always a pleasure to view and what most of us come for.

As far as responses to people's build posts - I feel that I've not too much to contribute other than friendly banter

and such terms as 'Wow', 'Awesome' 'Fantastic' etc., but after a while that just sounds so sycophantic

even though it's totally genuinely meant. 'Friendly banter' is always welcomed - in my threads anyway. Much better than a knife fight.

Do Pochers represent a sensible financial outlay? ..................................................................... Definitely NOT.

But they can be acquired inexpensively if you are prepared to buy them ready built and then de-construct them.

I recently saw an Alfa plus a Fiat go for £200 for the pair, and I've just paid about £1000 less for my Bugatti Surprofile than some of the kit asking prices that I've seen. Certainly true enough-no argument.

Finally ........... I'm a sucker for BIG models :DYEAAA!

Please continue to chat in my thread and comment on my build. Don't fear disagreeing with my choices at any juncture-I welcome fresh thinking and constructive criticism. Surely, I know there are always things I could have done better.

And Elderly, you're 1:1 race car experience gives you a great perspective which I'm always eager to hear and compare to my own. Many of my 1:1 building practices have stood me in good stead in this project.

Come often and speak your mind; it's great to have the dialog.

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Oh-oh!! I fear that I may be off of some people's Christmas card list!

Once again, apologies all round.

Now, back to this %^***&% Pocher Rolls!!

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Oh-oh!! I fear that I may be off of some people's Christmas card list!

Once again, apologies all round.

Now, back to this %^***&% Pocher Rolls!!

Oh no you're not. Stop apologizing and check in here often!

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if you stop posting I may have to actually go build something myself :rolleyes: dont be so cruel to an old man :angry:

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if you stop posting I may have to actually go build something myself :rolleyes: dont be so cruel to an old man :angry:

:winkgrin: :winkgrin:

I'll wager I've got a decade on you-I can't run triathlons......... :shrug:

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quite possibly :evil_laugh: but my wife is doing her best to drive me into an early grave so i feel older. i just took a week off work and all i did was DECORATE, havent built a thing in two weeks :weep: so you will have to do it for me :ninja:

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I will gladly build for you but my wife has had a one decade head start on arranging an early underground trip for me.

But I would much prefer to see your work-past and present.

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Well we finally got some discussion going; but sadly at the cost of losing a valued contributor. And good internet friend.

Sorry I think I am a little lost. Did we loose a member? I hope not! I don't mind the silent watchers but to loose a member, that is quite sad. Among the car model forums, this is the least critical, most positive and quite active. The prevoius forum i was in was shut down cause members started dropping off and others where either just PM-ing and facebook-ing.

I have to admit, it was quite heartening when Plastheniker decided to leave BM. I miss that guy! I love this forum and love how it all comes together. :weep::crying: I promise to do my fair share, get my mojo back and start posting WIP again.

Edited by Gobs of Espresso

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Sorry I think I am a little lost. Did we loose a member? I hope not! I don't mind the silent watchers but to loose a member, that is quite sad.

No Gobs; not lose as in 'no longer here'. Foxfriend Larry has stated that he wishes not to post further updates on his Sedanca build. But the hope is that he will drop in here and chat about what we're doing.

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Not exciting but needed...

So much of what I'm doing lately is structural improvement, as evidenced by the previous body alignment and attachment posts. I felt I needed to make the parts and fasteners strong enough to withstand the constant assembly / disassembly needed for fitting and finishing. And to correct locations for fastening by redrilling and gusseting certain areas.

Nearing the end of this process, here is the attachment of the body sides to the floorboard. Having gotten the floor to attach firmly to the chassis (above), this is the last major improvement to get a straight, and rigid body. It's awfully wobbly the way they give it to you.

The orientation here is that the body and separate floor is upside down. The planking was placed on the floor bottom just to have something pretty to look at. :winkgrin: The floor sides fit into a channel in each body side. In the floor, Pocher molded 3 holes per side. In the body side, they molded 3 slots. The floor slips into the sides and the crap screws are used with 2mm washer to 'clamp' the body side to the floor. Total junk.

BTW-you have to do this right side up because the roof will touch the table top if you don't, which means you're working a screwdriver blind and upside down and fiddling with tiny washers. The washers are to allow the screws to not fall through the slots. Phooey.

First step was to drill and tap the holes for 2mm threaded rod, making studs out of them. Then CA the 11mm long studs in:

408Medium_zpsd19870ea.jpg

This stops a lot of fiddling. Wanting a simple one-piece 'clamp' to take the place of 3 tiny washers, I settled on the 3 ply wood I used for the floor. It is .035" thick and nicely rigid. Carefully locating the stud holes, I trimmed each piece to fit the length and width of the body side.

410Medium_zps1573a5b0.jpg

I may for the sake of overkill, epoxy the washers to the wood clamps at each hole to allow a seat for the 2mm nuts. But it works well without them. I may also coat the ply with CA (an old R/C plane trick) for additional strength.

409Medium_zps6238f7aa.jpg

Eventually all parts will be painted and finished. The floor sides (seen when you open a door) will be the yellow of the body sides.

About ready to do the body work (filling) and cut the doors out of their openings.

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What next?

A Tulip-wood boat tail?????

Ehhh-NO. Plastic is difficult enough for me, much less Tulip-wood Mr. Roy. :weep:

I have been working steadily since my last post at my usual molasses rate-nowhere near as prolific as Magic Roy.

The next phase...

The beginning of body and paint work. Here are my methods and some wacky ideas to share.

First off, my filler of choice is Bondo 2 part Professional Glazing and Spot Putty. Hands down the best I've used. Never shrinks, dries as quickly as you mix the hardener (more dries faster) and sands to a feather. Here's my filling 'kit'; a soft plastic lid from a coffee can, a steel mixing rod from a hanger, and two 'spatulas' made from credit cards. All these parts clean easily as soon as you finish applying with a bit of lacquer thinner on a paper towel. I use them over and over.

Here's a secret; First, KNEAD the tube of hardner every time you use it. It's either water or goop and it's better like heavy cream. Use a DOT of the red hardner (put down first) about the size of a dress shirt sleeve button to a blob of the white putty the size of a watch (remember those?) face. Mix and you'll get a shade of pink filler. USE LESS HARDENER and you get a lighter colour, longer-working putty. Useful when doing multiple spot fills. If you want a faster cure, mix to a full pink colour but work fast. As soon as it kicks on your palate, throw it out.

A word of caution; the sanding dust is as fine as resin dust so do your usual precautions to not ingest / inhale it. :nuke:

411Medium_zpscdb3798c.jpg

Next up in my mad scientist gallery are these pads cut to size and shape to hold big parts while sanding and filling. They are 1/2" thick firm but compressible foam. Sold in home supply stores as mats for standing comfortably while doing shop (or any) work. They cut very easily with a large old carving knife (stolen) from momma's kitchen . They let you bear down while sanding without damage to your part. I'd hate to snap off those door pillars for example. I find taking a bit extra time to make stuff like this makes the job easier and maybe quicker in the long run:

412Medium_zps43727939.jpg

Here's how it looks in action. This is the passenger side after a couple of rounds of filler. The door is only placed. You can see I added a .020" styrene filler to the body edge. Needed because of Pocher's creative sizing of mating parts. :weep: The door gap sukked...

413Medium_zps726bbe39.jpg

A view from inside the body:

414Medium_zpsed5b1b93.jpg

The driver's side. The filler has been added to wavy dips in the plastic after it had been leveled with 220 and 400 grit wet-or-dry paper. The lower front corner has filler due to the 4 holes I had to dill to find the exact correct forward body bolting point to the chassis. That was a time-consuming and frustrating exercise. An 0-80 bolt will go there when painted. Every one of the outer edges on all parts had a hard, raised flash which needed leveling:

415Medium_zps28cd7f03.jpg

Here is the inside of the body, aft of the door. Early on I had decided no turn indicators; I wanted purity of body line above 'correctness' so blanking them off was the answer. Because the body is .095" thick here, I back fill with a strip of styrene so the Bondo has a base. Then, fill the slot in layers-not a huge blob all at once. It adheres to itself just great. As far as making 1:1 safe turns, 'Let them eat cake' as a famous (briefly) woman once said. After all, the Cannonball Run demonstrated that rear view mirrors should be jettisoned:

416Medium_zps584c92b8.jpg

Here's the outside, with the third layer of putty curing and awaiting sanding:

417Medium_zps2beff38d.jpg

Here is the central roof section with the lower body piece that connects to the sides. The bottom portion was a flimsy, thinner mold of plastic (why Pocher?) so I added this .060" styrene doubler to make the body 'tub' more sturdy:

418Medium_zps8099fa00.jpg

And finally for now, the cowl / windshield section. It's important because it connects the two body sides at the front and must be square. Mine had a slight twist in it and my trusty Milwaukee heat gun solved that. It seems to not need filler, just sanding for primer:

419Medium_zps66db48fb.jpg

Questions or hate mail welcomed... :bangin:

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Amazing!!!! ......

....... scratch built Hispano Suiza next please Codger.

I will probably not survive this build my friend. :weep:

And Hispanos are even more wacky than RR's made by a defunct Eye-talian company..... :banghead:

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