A BIG Rolls Royce

[Darwinism]

Hello Codger, just found this thread but I'll be following it closely now. Stunning, stunning work.

[foxfriend]

The stance on yours is a lot better than on mine. My one stands far too high, might have to look into that, but it makes me nervous with all the linkages and the somewhat delicate spring attachments. Then again I have read somewhere that they do tend to sag after a time, a lot like myself!!

Larry.

[Codger]

looks impressive to me , what problem is worrying you?

The major concern now is to get these locations permanent but removable. Meaning the body (with the floor board as part of it) attachment holes to the chassis must be drilled in these new locations and screws installed. Then taken apart to do the finishing. The Pocher locations have the body too far forward which then hits the front fender (wing?),fouls the hood and makes the rear wheel not centered in the wheel opening.

I've corrected all that-just need to do the sweaty part and redrill. Measure 100 times / drill once.

[Codger]

The stance on yours is a lot better than on mine. My one stands far too high, might have to look into that, but it makes me nervous with all the linkages and the somewhat delicate spring attachments. Then again I have read somewhere that they do tend to sag after a time, a lot like myself!!

Larry.

If your body can be detached, I would remove each spring (not fun I know) and de-arch them. If you have a later K 72 kit with steel imbedded in the spring it's easy. If the older type (which mine was hence the PE set) you can soak them in hot water to de-arch. In time if they sag, I would make prop stands (like the kit ones) to hold up f / r axles.

Larry, any chance on that carpet binding method?

[Codger]

Shameless 'beauty' shots ...

While shooting the previous photos, I had completely for gotten that I could pose the front wheels. Positionable wheels to me adds so much natural animation to a model and lifts it out of the 'toy' range.

So before I blow it apart and get it onto the work stands here it is. It will be a long time before it's all-of-a-piece again:

[Aginvicta]

Great work Codger, your attention to fine detail is amazing,

Andy

[Codger]

End of a chapter...

The last bits of the drivetrain and engine are complete with the addition of the radiator brace and the control rods for the starting carburetor and grille shutters. None of this comes from Pocher. The position of the rad and the cowl are now fixed (after a hundred measurements) so the body location is also finalized. Most of this will get obscured by coachwork so here's a last look:

[Mpfiend]

Beautiful work Codger, a true masterpiece.

Best Regards

Keith.

[RRFAN]

A new member here and a new follower of your fantastic Pocher Rolls Royce project.

Being an avid RR fan I am most curious about the prospective result.

At present I am doing a 1/16 scale Phantom III by Entex but the start of a Pocher project by myself is on the cards of the future.

I am fully admiring your approach and I am learning a lot.

Much appreciated.

Edited November 5, 2014 by RRFAN

[Brandy]

Stunning work! How did you go about doing the small pads that cushion the hood against the radiator and scuttle? I will have to do those on my Bentley and could use some tips!!

Ian

[Codger]

Gents, you are very kind.

Ian, those are molded in from Pocher. The actual flange they're on is either brass or ally from Rolls. I chose brass and painted them after the main body colors. Then picked out the pads (it's actually like a strap, woven into slots in the flange) with khaki flat paint.

I've seen two models where the builders removed all that, made a brass right angle flange and slotted (uber difficult) it. Then wove material through it. Waaay beyond my skill level...

[Codger]

Some thoughts on classic Pochers...

As you've read, I'm heavily involved in the body alignment phase of construction. The Rolls body has many elements front to rear which must all work together to produce the beautiful lines of the car. If you assemble the kit as delivered, none of those elements will be in the right places.

Paul Koo's excellent DVD is essential for pointing out things that would take any builder much longer to figure out without the guidance.

But I learned that you should use that only as a starting point and relentlessly check every dimension, fit and fastening location - before committing to final attachment and paint / upholstery finish.

Here's my observations and example:

The key is to get the rear wheel centered correctly in the fender opening-that's the primary goal. Pocher's attachment location puts the wheel way back in the opening because the rear fender (attached to the body) is too far forward. That looks goofy. If you put the trunk box in place, there's a big gap between it and the back of the body.

So Koo says to redrill the body attachment hole (to the chassis) forward on the body by 5mm if you have an early kit or 3mm for a later kit. (This because Pocher made the hood lengths too short on the early kit and 'corrected' it on later kits. Their 'correction' is different than, say, Tamiya's correction...)

Well, good starting point but if I had blindly drilled the hole where advised, I'd have a wonky rear wheel placement. Constantly moving and checking, I decided to start at the very rear. Putting the trunk in it's correct location, then placing the body rear right against it located the rear fenders correctly over the wheels. I pinned it there. I had to drill my location 7mm forward, not the Koo-recommended numbers. Every Pocher is different.

Then I taped the windshield cowl unit in place. Then onto the adjoining pieces, the four parts of the hood. The hood tops fit perfectly between the grille shell and the cowl. I mean perfectly. But, the hood sides are 1/8" (!) too short.

Now that I can live with because it's a simple matter to add styrene and blend in to extend them. The front fenders, being totally detached from the body are not affected. Another key is that I spent a great deal of time earlier getting the radiator dead vertical to the chassis providing an 'anchor point' for the front coachwork.

Of course this required trimming and fiddling with the floor board and chassis many times but I won't bore you with that.

So for best results and a pleasing model, don't be in a rush and take nothing for granted with a Pocher.

[roymattblack]

Exactly!!!

I've had the body on and off my Alfa more times than a Hollywood Starlets clothes!

Almost every part of the body has been re-located compared to where it is 'supposed' to be.

I also heartily agree that the Koo DVD's are excellent, but yes - every Pocher is a bit different.

I think part of that comes from the age of the kits, the type of plastics used and good old shrinkage.

It does bring me back to the 'fun' of a Pocher though. They are a project and not a 'shake and bake' kit.

Love your Rolls BTW......

Roy.

[Codger]

One step forward-12 back...

I have been unexpectedly busy the last week but nothing shiny to show off here. I am always my own worst enemy.

Previous posts have shown the body alignment phase and I was pretty happy, having discovered the demons pointed out by Koo and 'corrected' them to the best of my feeble ability. Errrr, not so fast.

Famous for viewing things the next morning with a critical eye or 'eureka' moment, I found niggling little fit issues. Remeasuring and plotting better attachments showed me I had things wrong earlier.

The deal with Pocher Rolls' is to get the rear wheel centered correctly in the fender opening. So you have to relocate the body aft. That changes the hood, cowl, floor and trunk positions.

Without further whining, here's what I had to do to get the critical correct proportions;

Section 6mm (!) out of the trunk box and lid.

Move the body back 6mm; redrill it's locating holes accordingly.

Move the separate floor back also.

Notch a slot in the floor because the rear crossmember prevented it from seating flat onto the chassis.

Make locating 'stops' to center the floor onto the chassis, matching the new body position.

The trunk, top cut in center because it has compound curves on all sides; The box, cut at the back edge and reinforced with inner braces and top and box having all the 'graining' texture sanded off-it will be painted not upholstered; the floor with the slot cut into it for the crossmember. The big rectangular opening is for the battery box which is completely hidden anyway. The seat covers the top of it and the new wood floor will cover the bottom.:

Two styrene rods used to center and stop the floor at the rear:

The floor in place with the levers correctly centered in their opening and it centered on the chassis:

Frequent on / off placement of the body and parts confirmed I was finally on the right track. Trunk fit perfectly with no bind, wheel centered in rear, levers in correct place and everything the same on both sides.---Wait a minute, the ruler revealed the wheelbase was different by 1/16" on one side. Loosening the spring perches allowed enough shift to correct that. Now the wheels were centered (in the rear) on both sides.

Home safe? Ahhhh, not yet. What's bothering me now? I should be polishing its glass case and swilling champagne...The ride height, that's what.

Initially pleased that the PE springs lowered both ends in a scale pleasing manner for that '30's rakish look, I wasn't yet happy. So I made 1/16" shims and placed them between the front axle and the spring on the perch. Raising the front gave nice tire clearance but a great low look, combating the Pocher buckboard stock placement.

The rear benefited from 1/16" shims too but the rear axle is above the spring. So placement there raised the axle, thereby lowering the car. Just a bit. Maybe I'd like more but this is certainly acceptable and I can't find a way to lower the rear further so this is it.

Seen here, the front before modification and the rear after. Notice the trunk tilted back a bit? Not anymore after sectioning. An inner wheelwell panel will hide the gaps and make it even less noticeable. Better pics later on, more work to do. Making 2mm studs to anchor the floor and to attach the floor to the body side flanges. At least everything is where it should be:

Honestly, you CAN build a Pocher right out of box, with just the 'normal' amount of difficulties and have a KNOCKOUT model. I am cursed with a vision which drives me deeper into the abyss of endless nit picking and fuss. I am pushing my personal envelope. With a Pocher classic you need to be part detective, part engineer, part inventor and completely nuts. I am only the latter.

But I AM getting what I signed up for...

[RRFAN]

This long and winding journey proceeds step by step. Any distance coverend, however small, brings you closer to the final result.

I will be waiting to see it completed.

[roymattblack]

I keep watching......

Amazing.

Roy.

[Codger]

I keep watching......

No you don't-you're cracking these out like a wildman! :lol:

[foxfriend]

Codger, I think I am going nuts just contemplating on the effort you are putting in!! My build is driving me to despair, and I have not put in a third of the effort that you are.

In a nutshell, very, very impressive. I am almost ashamed to continue with mine, but I will continue of course, be it a good, or not so good outcome. And to think I have a lot more car kits gathered in the side lines on the strength of this!! I knew I should have stuck to aircraft.

All the best,

Larry.

[Codger]

Codger, I think I am going nuts just contemplating on the effort you are putting in!! My build is driving me to despair, and I have not put in a third of the effort that you are.

In a nutshell, very, very impressive. I am almost ashamed to continue with mine, but I will continue of course, be it a good, or not so good outcome. And to think I have a lot more car kits gathered in the side lines on the strength of this!! I knew I should have stuck to aircraft.

All the best,

Larry.

Do not despair my friend. The fault is largely mine and not representative of what competent builders do.

I'm working way over my head and many things are a struggle that should not be. Sometimes, I have too much patience. That combined with average skills leads to an ordeal. There's no certainty that all this toil I'm doing will lead to a good outcome.

I'd kill for your interior and it would be a shame for you to slack off now.

Keep working and keep posting-it inspires me and I'm sure others.

[Codger]

The (under) floor...

Another probably frivolous detail, the under side of the cabin floor. RR covered it with planks. Herewith, my interpretation. 1/32" aircraft ply, fresh off the Dremel jig saw. Five sections, just layed in place, no adhesive. Needs staining, lining (the separate planks) and rivet heads on the outer edges.

You can't tell but that kit floorboard has been heavily massaged for fit, with bits removed and holes redrilled.

What's a few more hours piled on??

[roymattblack]

Looking amazing - as always.

I love the idea of the wood - I'll 'pinch' that idea for the flooring on the Pocher Fiat. (Eventually)

Roy.

[RRFAN]

What a brilliant idea that wood flooring. An d indeed what is a few more hours.... it is all worth the while.

[Buster213]

Phew, never heard of pocher models until recently but this build would test the patience of a saint. I built a kit car once, a lotus seven lookalike, used a Ford Sierra as a doner car. Took me two years ( in my spare time, work and wife allowing lol) and it was a lot easier than this model. All I can say is that Porcher builders must be very committed ( or should be lol) I have never seen such beautiful work on such a large scale with such an obvious devotion of the builder to "get it right" . Codger it was an absolute pleasure to see your pics and I am in awe of your skills and dedication. Stunning! Thank you for showing it.

[elderly]

I built a kit car once, a lotus seven lookalike, used a Ford Sierra as a doner car. Took me two years ( in my spare time, work and wife allowing lol) and it was a lot easier than this model. t.

I can confirm that - at the risk of hijacking Codger's thread (again! ....... Or maybe I hijacked Roy's with my Alfa?), I built my first car from an abandoned fibreglass body shell which I painted using MANY rattle cans, and scavenged the components from many scrap yards, and yes it was much simpler to make than a Pocher!

[Codger]

:lol: Hijacking?? I love when a stray dog walks past my thread!

And I am just as guilty of 1:1 zaniness as you two are. Here's my 27 year project of vehicular mayhem. This probably prepared me for Pocher duty. So two years on this model is cake...

But seriously Buster and Elderly, your comments are like warm sunshine and much appreciated. Since you both built 1:1 projects, do not shy away from a Pocher classic for satisfaction as big as your 1:1 was. I'm making much more pain for myself than a great model of this requires. You don't have to and you truly could do it.

Of course, I recognize you just may not want to do it.....