A BIG Rolls Royce

[Pouln]

Chas, good to see you found the energy to start again. We thought you were almost there, but, the amount of work needed on the side panels is huge. Anyway the louvres and cowl line up pretty good. Well done.

[wkennerley]

On 14/10/2014 at 2:18 AM, Codger said:

Hi Codger, may I ask what size rod (or is it a bolt with a built in washer and hex head?) and nuts you used here please - Thanks Wayne

e

On 14/10/2014 at 2:18 AM, Codger said:

Here, my simplified version of the real rods and levers and flange operated by the rod from the firewall:

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[Codger]

If memory serves, 00-90. It''s a bolt with jam nuts. Possibly 0-80 which I used in some areas...

That was Oct 2014 !

 

[Codger]

Bodywork tips...

These methods work for me and hopefully you too. They are most helpful for large scale part joining, in this case my hood panel which is as long as a 1/24 scale car. Every panel on my car has been modified using these cutting, joining and filling methods. For builders of any of the Pocher Rolls, this is the best way to get accurate louver alignment even if the body is not channeled. They never line up stock.

Here now the driver side lower hood panel is fabricated, much neater and less time than the passenger side which came first. I seem to make up things as I go along...

Seen here is the louver panel cut from a stock kit hood. With it is the main panel cut so as to accept it. The reason for this to refresh, is to relocate the louvers to match the cowl's and resize the whole panel for the lowered body. The significant thing which is very important later is that the stock panel is between .080 and .085 thick (thank you Pocher) and my new styrene sheet part is .060. I intentionally chose thinner material as it's easier to cut and handle.

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You want a nice snug parts fit so cut accurately; small gaps are fine at this stage. The key here is to mark and cut accurately the louver alignment with the cowl. I made a template out of file card which works very well. Easy to mark and trim exactly to the opening. Then cut your plastic. A major improvement from the first panel was cutting the louvers further away from their top and bottom edges. This way you're not having to sand excess filler out of those tough areas. I also mask a band around where the filler will go to minimize overloading the panel with it. Easier to sand less than more. I'm a slow learner...

The ABSOLUTE key to good panel join is this; bevel the inner edges of all the joining surfaces ! Just sand the 90 degree cut edge of the parts to a rough 45 degree bevel. Leave enough flat surface below to actually glue-join the parts. The reason for this extra step is so that the filler A. has more surface area and B. feather sands into the surrounding part. Otherwise, you will have a hard straight join line which no filler will conceal. Also works for you diecast builders:

Now the trick (BEFORE gluing the parts together) is to get the outer (the part of the panel you see on the car) plastic to have the same surface plane as the louver panel. So you don't get a lumpy, wavy surface - gloss paint will make that VERY noticeable.  On the first panel, I made shim stock glued on the back to level the front surface. Much easier this time, I used index card stacks of ~.020 and ~.025 to shim the outer panel off the bench and make the faces flush. Doh! Much easier and adjustable. Use tape and weights to make sure they all touch the base:

Next comes the filler / sanding cycles. There are usually tiny flaws and pinholes and I do several rounds of this. You're looking tho get the joined edges as soft, feathered, indistinct surfaces - in other words smooth with no waves. I use various combinations of hard and soft blocks and grits ranging through 100, 220, 400 and 600 at this stage -all WET. A vanity sink half filled and a dash of dish soap works well for this - just don't tell any females in proximity... The filler is 2 part Bondo, mixed to a very light pink for working time. Note how well is feathers. The slightly darker red is traces of single part for minute scratches. Go easy when sanding, use a light touch. Also seen is the finished other side panel in final white primer - it's flawless and smooth. Tape at the top is mask - it gets a darker primer. It took MANY hours to get this because I had less than perfect joins first time around. Much better surfaces this time.

The BEST way to check your surfaces is by sighting over the panel from an edge - here from the front edge looking aft. Look INTO a strong light and see how it lays on the surface. Then by feel; drag a finger nail over the joins, close your eyes and gently rub a finger over the surfaces. You'll feel waves and scratches that way. I know I sound like some psychic nut case....but I crave smooth surfaces on a classic car.

Before and after: here is the joined but not filled panel at last check for alignment. Hinges have not been added yet and the parts are just laying in place. The color sweep and beltline cladding will be added before priming. This will be dark red with cream on the whole lower panel.

Now filled:

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At this point I re-check for small imperfections and maybe additional scratch filler. I DON'T use primer as a scratch filler; I do all the filling and smoothing on the plastic surfaces - THEN start priming. Then comes several light coats of Tamiya fine gray prime with 600 grit wet sanding. Next a barrier coat of Pledge acrylic, usually brushed on (it levels well) which I gently scuff dull and smooth with gray scuff pad. This to eliminate ghosting of filler. In this case with cream color top coat, I use Krylon white primer over the Pledge and under the Krylon cream.

Time for a nap....

[silver911]

A master class in the art of all things Pocher my friend.....a massive amount of useful knowledge for us mere mortals to feed on....nice one.

 

Much respect 

 

Ron

[Brandy]

What Ron said....very useful info, thanks Mr C!

 

Ian

[Tzulscha]

Ah Mr Codger.

 

I will avoid the usual superlatives as anything I could add would just be piling it deeper.  Still...  ..again...

 

If I might though, despite your modesty you are far beyond the so-called "professional" builders.

You are in fact an artist sir, a hobbyist, a perfectionist and it shows.

Professional modelers work to a schedule and a budget and therefore MUST make compromises. 

A true hobbyist/artist does things to their own personal standards and obviously yours are among the highest.

 

Good show sir!

[Codger]

10 minutes ago, Tzulscha said:

Ah Mr Codger.

 

I will avoid the usual superlatives as anything I could add would just be piling it deeper.  Still...  ..again...

 

If I might though, despite your modesty you are far beyond the so-called "professional" builders.

You are in fact an artist sir, a hobbyist, a perfectionist and it shows.

Professional modelers work to a schedule and a budget and therefore MUST make compromises. 

A true hobbyist/artist does things to their own personal standards and obviously yours are among the highest.

 

Good show sir!

Well - thank you all boys for the kind support.

But Mr Z, although you lavish unwarranted praise, you have touched upon a point I made very early on in this odyssey. I stated at the outset that my hope was to build an object that was as much 'art' as 'replica'.

I would (and did in a huge way) take license nearly everywhere to please my own eye rather than have a strict reproduction.

Thus, I combined natural metals with normally painted surfaces, immaculate areas with the shopworn and colors and textures the entire RR factory would have nightmares about.

When (and if) it finally gets the Lady on the radiator cap, it will sit in my view daily and please me - tasteful or tasteless to the outside world. That will have been my ultimate satisfaction for doing it.

Thank you for paying such attention to this scribble as to have deciphered my intended path.

[rjfk2002]

Thank you for the very informative step-by-step and pictures!  It's incredible how you joined the shaved down Pocher part with the fresh plastic and created a part that looks like it was from a mold!  I'm downloading this post for my archive.

 

Helpful hit too on the Future.  Do you hand brush or run it through an airbrush?

[Codger]

1 minute ago, rjfk2002 said:

Thank you for the very informative step-by-step and pictures!  It's incredible how you joined the shaved down Pocher part with the fresh plastic and created a part that looks like it was from a mold!  I'm downloading this post for my archive.

 

Helpful hit too on the Future.  Do you hand brush or run it through an airbrush?

Thanks Rich. I do either, depending. In this case, I brushed; as stated it levels pretty well if you 'flood' it on a bit, don't keep brush-stroking. When dry, (maybe an hour to be safe) I gently scuff it down (gray pad) to dull; this still leaves a barrier, makes it flat and insulates the filler from the primers and gloss coats. That finished panel in the above is now ready for color.

[sharknose156]

6 hours ago, rjfk2002 said:

I'm downloading this post for my archive.

Rjfk how do you download a specific post please ? many thanks. Sam

[rjfk2002]

Sam I just copy paste the post to Word. Not really a download I was just being lazy with my wording...

[Codger]

More bodywork tips and discoveries...

Still learning as I go along. The hood panels, although looking simpler, were almost as problematic as the scratchbuilt doors. And these are only 'partially' scratchbuilt. It's all about alignment and fit.

 

In order to get the side hinges as friction-free as possible it was imperative to get the mating edges arrow straight. All four panels had curls in various degrees right on their trees in the box. Four decades in an attic will do that. Even the second set of side panels I bought, although better, were also less than perfect. You don't want to build-in stresses as you glue and bolt things together.

 

So heating, to get warps out, was vital. I did much heat bending for the doors using both heat gun and hot water. All were effective after much horseplay but none was a sure-fire method. Until I tried this. Not for the faint of heart or delicate of fingers.

 

Each of the side panels had to have their louver inserts  and part of the beltline structure in place to see where the warp stresses were. That includes CA, cement and Bondo filler, front and back. Ready to make an omelet and certain I'd break some eggs, I procured a 10" small frying pan, (my version of 'cheating on your wife' - she'll never know...)  because it is shallow and these 7" long parts could be partially submerged in it. Meaning the side edges. Also on hand, a solid cardboard tube (or wood dowel) of 1 1/4" diameter right next to the pan. Turn on the near-by sink faucet to a slight dribble of cold water and keep it running.

 

I'd learned working on the doors that 185F was an ideal temp for softening Pocher plastic. That happens just as boil bubbles are small and beginning to appear. You acquire an eye for this without needing the temp gun. When the water looks right, lower the flame and immerse the part's edge into the water, moving slowly back and forth. After a count of 10 or so (you'll get the knack) remove it quickly and place the bowed side on the tube and roll the part from side to side with a bit (!) of pressure on the corners you're holding. This is to get the curl to relax and go the other way. Then, still holding the corners with counter pressure, immerse the part in the running cool water. This quenches the plastic, stops the bending and holds the shape.

 

Now sight along the edge or check with straight edge. If there's still some warp, repeat, several times if needed. Don't try to get it all at once, because you'll surely bend it the other way. You want to sneak up on the straight edge and you will if you're patient. This procedure works better and easier than any I've tried on the whole build.

 

Surprising facts; the hot water does not affect filler, primer or either of the glues. Nothing comes apart or delaminates. No blisters in primer. Better parts through thermodynamics!

 

A word about priming (quite a few actually); take your time. I am using lacquers (think everyone not using 2-parts should) which dry amazingly well and (this is primers remember) have been unaffected by humidity and temps as cold as 50F. I spray light coats (a bit more than 'mist' coats - there's a difference), maybe 1/2 hour apart. Two or three to get even coverage. Then ONLY ONE medium coat for 'body'. I let this dry at least 12 hours to outgas and shrink - usually more. This lets you see flaws you might have missed with filler or skim coat. Get in the habit (if you want perfect topcoats) of doing other things while primers dry - the longer the better.  I then WET (virtually always) sand with 600 to leave a bit of tooth but a surface with no dry, 'pebble' grain in it. Smooth top coats start with smooth primers. No acne on the surface. BTW - wet sanding in a sink or basin will NOT lift Tamiya masking tape off a surface. You can re-coat right after sanding if desired by just air blowing with your compressor and 100 psi. Doesn't lift the tape. To reduce the amount of filler and keep it in a confined area  (like away from my louver tips - a bugger to sand in there) I mask a top and bottom line and lay the filler in between. When dry, I sand the filler (with tape still in place) so it is flush with the tape edges - THEN remove the tape and block sand flat.

 

BTW - Only apply masking tape onto thoroughly dry primer (top coats too actually); it may not lift paint but it might 'print-through' so avoid the possibility. The fine-line stripe tapes can especially do this with aggressive tack.

 

Apropos to flaw-free paint jobs is the enemy of all of us; DUST! I keep this down by the simple expedient of keeping the car covered, especially and even while work goes on. A large trash bag (model is 26" long) trimmed to be comfortably oversized and covering all 4 sides will do it. You've all seen it in many of my photos. Sanding or Dremel use 4 or 5 feet away makes mini tornadoes of dust. Your HVAC system blows hot / cold air while you snore and coats DUST on every dormant thing in the house. Pets - well I don't have to elaborate on what comes off of them.  If you made a fabric top as I did, it would be a furry thing quickly if left unprotected. Keeping dust off minimizes brush marks and rag scratches which age the model before it gets to the display case. Especially one that's been out for 3 years...

 

The result of all this sermon is this; arrow straight edges at the hinge line, mating nicely with the cowl. This side has 2 primer colors and the full belt in place. I consider myself very lucky to have got it this good on both sides:

Here's the inside showing the corner hinge and pin in place. This will allow the hood to pivot up at the center hinge and fold down (inward) on the side. Might even get to see some of the engine toil done many months ago!

The center hinge having been previously fitted and removed for primer (it's chromed) will join that gap in center, and pull everything on the sides into alignment. Right now the tops are just resting in place. Tiny tweeks will surely be needed but everything's pretty much satisfactory now.

Without the doors on (stored for protection) it's tough to see but in person, the famous mile-long RR hood is what gives the Phantom perfect (in my view) proportions. Getting the color coats right will be the icing on the cake. I should be so lucky...

 

 

[Roy vd M.]

@Codger I'll bookmark this post because of your further explanation on painting. Already bookmarked the other one somewhere halfway the thread, so I'll use a combination of both for my next paint job. 

 

Nice explanation also on the shaping of Pocher plastic. It is my (non-Pocher but general) experience that shaping plastic and especially resin in water works less effective / accurate than using hot air. 

 

The only question I had (it wouldn't have even been a remark as I estimated you had already taken it into account) regarded the lining up of bonnet-radiator fronton (can't think of a better word with this rolling temple of a vehicle). But you already answered that question: all will be aligned. I'm sure all us followers are delighted of this important step forward in the build and, even more dramatically pleasing, of your resuming this build. I hope any health issues have ceased to be for an extremely royal while.  

[silver911]

Said it before....but will say it again.....simply a masterclass for us mere mortals my friend....progress to be yet more proud of.

 

Huge respect

 

Ron

[Brandy]

Beautiful results and a very useful explanation of how they were achieved. Cheers Mr C!

 

Ian

[Vince1159]

Absolutely stunning....

[ginger]

Is Codger another name for Cato?

[Codger]

16 hours ago, Roy vd M. said:

Nice explanation also on the shaping of Pocher plastic. It is my (non-Pocher but general) experience that shaping plastic and especially resin in water works less effective / accurate than using hot air. 

 

The only question I had (it wouldn't have even been a remark as I estimated you had already taken it into account) regarded the lining up of bonnet-radiator fronton (can't think of a better word with this rolling temple of a vehicle). But you already answered that question: all will be aligned. I'm sure all us followers are delighted of this important step forward in the build and, even more dramatically pleasing, of your resuming this build. I hope any health issues have ceased to be for an extremely royal while.  

Thanks to all for the nice support words.

 

Yes Roy, heat gun had worked well (on the doors), again being cautious about application. But wearing oven mitts to handle the part was too clumsy for me. Much more controllable with hot water and can hold the edges.

 

The center hinge will bring the tops together and mate to the grille shape like the prototypes. Right now the side panels are pulling them a bit but as said, some tweeks and a scuff of paper should get them right. Also can make brass clips at bottom edges if needed.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Codger

[Codger]

An historic moment...

- On this workbench at least. The last of the primer for this long - patient Rolls.

 

Waiting to dry overnight, then 600 wet tomorrow and color will appear. Temps in the 70F range and low humidity, we lacquer guys live for it!

 

The color won't go fast because I color sand a jillion times - but we're getting there. Clear after that. Polishing cloths after that - you all know the drill by now.

 

Fingers crossed xxx

[silver911]

Rather you than me Mr C....hate all this prep...re-prep...sand...prime....sand blah blah blah

It takes a real artist to put himself through all that torture...but...your results speak for themselves.

 

Much respect 

 

Ron

[rjfk2002]

Seeing those primed parts brings a tear to the eye.  The build is getting closer to the finish line!

 

Thanks for all the helpful paint tips and pics!

[Pouln]

Chas, wonderful results. Everything lines up perfectly, which in itself is a big accomplishment. 

Your mods make the side panels very coach-builder like. True craftmansship. 

Wish you luck with the paintjob, however I'm sure it will be a piece of cake for you. 

[Codger]

Color!...

Ron, I don't blame you for hating prep but here it is - or actually, continues. If any of you are satisfied with paint jobs as they come out of the can, ignore the following because it's tedious and time consuming. Perfect paint will tax you that way.

 

The filled and sanded top hood panels were crying out for color so here are the first three coats of Dark Red Duplicolor lacquer. They were applied on an 80F day yesterday and 50% humidity. All three coats were more than mist but were fine, even light coats. Just wanted even color and some body to sand into.

 

My experience with Duplicolors is that they dry to a fine 'leather' texture but not full 'orange peel'. For my methods that's just fine.

 

Here is my procedure for wet sanding overnight-dry paint; a basin of tepid water, a drop of dish soap and 600 and 1000 wet-or-dry. This procedure works best if any spouses are out on a shopping trip, which greatly eliminates the noise factor. With three coats on, you can sand without fear; the goal is to flatten the surface which also dulls it. Steady and even as you go. Note the red residue in the basin and the fact that the panels are not sanded through - just go carefully near the edges. It's OK if you can't get right into a corner or edge (like where the outer raised edges are); later coats and clear will make that 'go away'. You want to get the leather texture flat with even color - that's all.

Clean and dry, here the surfaces are seen as dull but evenly flat. Subsequent coats with lay on a flat surface, not build up more texture. The next coats will be 'medium' coats - wet but not 'heavy'. Again color sanding will occur. My method is to clear a flat, smooth surface which both lays out smooth and enriches the color beneath. And then even that gets sanding with cloth grits.

 

Seen with the top panels are the sides and a scrap of the cream they will become. The coachline is in gray for the Dark Red, which will get masked, then the cream shot on the white prime below by the same methods.

 

I'm tired already...

 

 

 

[Roy vd M.]

Adding another post to my paint curriculum...